String Theory: A Puppetmaster's Guide *NEW*

1) Dude already talked about Vent not quite being good enough
2) Why not both? (in addition to better WS damage)

Has the nerf effect PUP's ability to tank / solo with trusts / low man say Omen?

no

Just saying, but if you weren't also getting Beast Roll from a max level Barataria/Regal/Rostam COR, then the Regain from COR97 Companion's Roll did relatively little because their Phantom Roll+0 Beast Roll is considerably worse.

Many maton setups don't have room for high-tier Tension Springs, so even with Akamochi/Grape, Attuner and Idris Frailty the maton can still benefit significantly from more Attack for Arcuballista and Bone Crusher. And the higher Regain from COR97 amounted to maybe 300-400 extra TP between each WS compared to Rostam Crooked Companion's, assuming the maton didn't waste any of that extra TP by holding (which will basically always happen).

Keep in mind that for Sharpshot matons any TP over 1950 is wasted due to TP Bonus and Bone Crusher doesn't really benefit from overflow at all. This is especially a potential issue if you are using Inhibitors.

It doesnt have sense. If you Vent to fresh Automaton, then you have 0 hate, so high jump is useless. If you use high jump before Vent, then you will give less hate to automaton. If you plan to use High jump because you get hate back from automaton, before Vent is back from recast, then it wont really be enough because Vent cooldown is just 1min, while high jump is 3min, so it will be up only once per few Vent cycles.

It would probably have more sense to go /war and Provoke just before Vent to give automaton even more hate.

I don't think /DRG would be an amazing improvement over /WAR even with the +7% damage to WS. PUP is, despite Smite I, a fairly low Attack job and /DRG doesn't help with that at all. Unless you're getting top tier/1hr attack buffs at all times you're going to be nowhere close to capping out our Damage Limit+ traits without Berserk on any content that matters.

Now if you're using Howling Fist as your main WS that might be a different story.

That's a good point, /WAR with Berserk use is probably still better. I agree with that - I just find that for "serious" content I tend to be pretty reluctant to take the defensive hit from using Berserk. TBF though, using like 4-5 Malignance pieces gives some hefty DT- and Meva, so perhaps Berserk is less of a risk these days based on your other TP gear and the particular situation/targets (and Berserk is nice with Malignance anyway thanks to PDL+).

I think I'd like to revise my statement:
/DRG is probably better if you aren't making full use of Berserk
/WAR if you're fine with Berserk


But you aren't always using a fresh Automaton. I don't see it as very practical to take an "active" puppet and then have to deal with all of the JA delay from using Deactivate, Activate, Deploy, Vent, just for an enmity dump. And then you're also dealing with wiping all maneuvers and needing to put them back up and cause a major hit to your puppet DPS. If you're doing that, what the heck is the point of meleeing alongside your puppet in the first place?

Sometimes the convoluted-*** ways people try to use Vent aren't worth the effort (hi there, old PUP/BLU tanking nonsense). If it's a situation where it really matters that the puppet keeps hate while you melee, and it's actually becoming a problem that you're pulling hate, you might want to just rethink things like... maybe TP in some Heyoka pieces instead of whatever else you're using, definitely swap into full pet enmity+ set right before voke/flash timers are up, etc.

And in the more realistic scenario of running into the occasional desire to shed some hate while fighting due to a damage spike, hey, High Jump is a minor perk of /DRG - a sub that might have some use anyway for offensive purposes. Can just use that, and not bother with the overly finicky Vent.

Anyway I was responding more to the /DRG high jump joke anyway, it's not a very serious concern to me. Real value of /DRG is obviously in the WS damage department.

Hey guys I'm sorry for derailing the conversation but my /DRG post was mostly a joke! xD

It's all your fault! ;)

Is there an up to date PUP lua somewhere?

Hey everyone, been a while since I posted in here.

There was some fallout from the last video I uploaded where I worked with other players in the community to go over the tank jobs. I omitted PUP from this and in hindsight that was a mistake, I'm not totally convinced but that's why I'm here.

Would anyone like to argue the case for PUP as a serious endgame tank while being honest about its shortcomings? If you'd like to contribute some audio then PM me and we can discuss it further. There's no real rush for this either, but I will hope to get the follow-up done within the next week.

PUP is never an endgame tank. It's a tank for retards who can't play PLD or RUN. The job sucks with and without Overdrive. Just Overdrive takes it into the mediocre section instead of the dogshit section.

The amount of PUP players i see who say "Oh you musn't have seen a good PUP player" and when I see them play they lose hate after 1 WS -_-.

Inb4 PUP fanboys come at me. Go learn a real job and don't hide behind PUP.

Oh wow °-°

What a retard this guy is lol

A little zealous about it but he's not wrong.

PUP tank scales proportionally to what(who) it's tanking against. Easily tank over an automaton if you're BiS after a couple seconds.

Lacks enough enmity moves, and zero ability to do a damn thing after a reset.
Only useful against excessive/unavoidable charm/insta death or as a last resort for inability to find a real tank or good enough WHM.

Which neither are hard to do/find for anyone who has a brain...

Its a tank that has its niche in which he is the best. It's simply a situational tank. Its not a tank suited for zergs with bis DD jobs, but it's a perfect tank for every low hate DPS tactic, like bursting, damaging with pets or Annihilator RNG.

I only commented on this because I seen how many delusional PUP players there are spamming Ruaumoko's video about why PUP isn't on there. People try praise PUP as much as that retard who spams Ballista. I don't get why PUP players, not all, but the majority think this job is so high and mighty when in reality it's straight doo doo.

IE; burst, ranger, other pets, melee etc in less words

Yeah I just described it wider, I wasnt disagreeing :)

Comparing the job to RUN and PLD proves he's a moron. It's a very unique job - the most unique in the game.

Regarding enmity, anyone who isnt a single-minded "MAX DAMAGE ONRY" type player can give the dd a dirge, have them /drg or both. Yes dd can still take hate from the pup if they want to, but if you want to take advantage of the insane damage reduction of the auto a smart dd can play it safe, evaluate and gauge how to play depending on the situation whilst still doing high (not max) damage.

It's a shame there are so many stupid players around that just rely on hacks (very high proportion on Asura it would seem...) because they dont know how to play properly then post inflammatory crap on the forum.

I honestly do agree, but like most things, other jobs can do it. I was just quite sad with Ruau's video being spammed with dumb Pup comments.

Take Kyou's Bravado for example. Mnk + Whm can take it. Max HP set + Full cure cureskin eats a full Bravado. If a GEO bubble is up then makes it even easier.
I used Kyou as an exmaple cos most people say Pup is best job for it.

As much as FFXI shouldn't be it is a game of absolutes.

Very much the absolute best or fail mentality. IE; if you're even considering using a pup you've already failed.

Suboptimal is worse than death (doing it slow or non-cookiecutter is worse than failing)

You're both actually admitting to a key advantage of the job by what you're arguing - it's an amusing demonstration of what/who we're dealing with here.

The point is you dont need to bring a "good enough WHM" or have an ability to "real tank" with PUP. The point is it means you dont need to find one, permitting smoother low man strategies.

Only if you're a stupid player. Enjoy the fails and deaths (if you weren't banned for hacking because you cant succeed without them).

Doing something suboptimal or non-cookiecutter is not a fail, because it's a game, not your job..

oh wait..

I know this. I agree with this. What I don't agree with is people claiming PUP's the best job ever. I see it everywhere, so do others.

The job has and always will be a beginner friendly job, I'm not disagreeing there. Just when I see dumb people say it's the best at something then it's time for them to step back a bit, you know.

For the record, we're not talking about me. I don't mind using a pup, often in fact will, because I don't care about a few extra minutes wasted. and it means I don't need to rely on a shout whm. I love just setting a script to put up manuevers with a couple pups and walking away till something dies.

But for everyone else - you took a couple extra seconds? *** gimp, kill yourself

I don't personally know anyone who claims PUP is the best job ever and I tend to use it for low man strategies where other set ups would technically be faster, but using PUP can often be safer. It is the best at a few things - reducing damage taken, uncharmable, ability to die and come back fighting fit within a few seconds etc. For me that makes the job useful to have, not a "tank for retards" or whatever crap you said to get a reaction.

Of course the big draw back filling a classical tank role is holding hate, but you can tweak your strategy to take advantage of what it is best at.