Random Politics & Religion #27

Best headline today.

Trump Signs Order Banning Brave Trans Men and Women From Doing What He Was Too Cowardly To Do
The Stranger. Known liberal rag.

Paged:

I'm really struggling to wrap my head around this spree of vandalism against historical monuments. It's just not coherent thinking. Why are people in the US so self-defeatist about their own past? I'm not even American, but I have studied history extensively and know that America has more often than not been in the right.

I can see why some people could stretch logic and deface the statues of Confederate heroes, even if I think it's utterly stupid, but defacing statues of the Founding Fathers? I mean, it's not like they did anything good for America right...?

Transgenderism is a mental disorder with a known, through scientific testing and peer review, connection to suicidality. Transgenders who are on hormone treatment should not be allowed to serve in the military, at least not in active combat roles.

Trump's not the only draft dodger, I imagine there's a few similar skeletons in other closets.

The argument you just made against transgenderism was also used for ages against homosexuality. In most developed countries, you cannot legally practice "conversion therapy", aka "pray the gay away". Face it, your kind lost.[/quote]
No, it was not and that is a false equivalency fallacy. Homosexuality was scorned on religious reasons, reasons which bled into society. There was never any scientific argument, worth merit, which linked homosexuality to suicidality.

Hormone treatment fundamentally alters and destabilizes a person's mental state, it's meant to do that because it's... hormone treatment. Mental patients who deny reality and substitute the real for the false actually have another designation. Schizophrenic.

I'd like to see the paper relating suicide to hormone treatments because it sounds made up.
This is not true. Suicide rates in LGB people, especially youths, are high. A culture of shame and prejudice takes it toll, and you seem more than content on continuing the tradition for transgender people.

But we have a president that sees no difference morally between Robert E Lee and George Washington. Nor between natzis and those protesting the natzis.

Then we have an education system that is best described as post modernist. No absolutes. No facts. Maybe post moral, IDK. This goes for the left and right both.


This month's Scientific American is all about gender and sex. I advise you to read the whole thing.

It's about catalyzing the radical left. To the people in the establishment, there is a benefit to keeping the radical wing perpetually agitated. Give them something to be pissed about they will enable the media to pound the PC drum and constantly assault the opposition.

No, it was not and that is a false equivalency fallacy. Homosexuality was scorned on religious reasons, reasons which bled into society. There was never any scientific argument, worth merit, which linked homosexuality to suicidality.

Hormone treatment fundamentally alters and destabilizes a person's mental state, it's meant to do that because it's... hormone treatment. Mental patients who deny reality and substitute the real for the false actually have another designation. Schizophrenic.[/quote]

Be careful there Rua, they might label you alt-right and a Nazi. Then they can beat you up without consequence because it's perfectly fine to hit a Nazi.

Yeah, "Hate Facts" are those evil things about reality they don't like to admit and instead just shame away.

The Paper
Here is a news article on the topic

My point is true, homosexuality is a natural divergence in orientation that can be observed in other parts of the animal kingdom. Religions have decried homosexuality throughout history because the very nature of its being defies the concept of intelligent design; much like Darwinism did. Religion bled into society and that is what caused the shunning of homosexuality. Homosexuals was a crime and was punishable through death until 1861 in Britain, 1873 in the United States. Beyond that, homosexuals were commonly sterilised.

People being mean to others isn't what causes suicide. *** up your internal biology through hormone treatment, altering your brain's behavior in ways it was never designed to, will cause thoughts of suicidality. It's the same reason that drugs designed to help people quit smoking have the warning label of 'may cause suicidal thoughts' on them.

If people committed suicide because society was mean to them then why do people with Autism, Aspergers, ADD, ADHD and Schizophrenia (among others) have substantially lower suicide rates? Because all of those disorders are developmental and the brain thus has time to adapt to them. Transgenderism is a mental disorder with a sudden onset, and liberals who push the agenda are wrong on many levels.

Considering I know quite a few trans people, the only one I know of, though I don't actually know her, who is suicidal is the one whose family has forbid her from transitioning.

Whatever you want to class transgenderism, be it mental, physical, or whatever, transitioning seems to work. Not transitioning seems to cause quite the mental upset.

I'm not trans, nor am I a physician dealing with said issues, I'm going by what I've seen.

Exactly, herein lies the issue. Autism and Aspergers, to use an example, are 'developmental disorders' (as classified by the DSM-III, DSM-IV and DSM-V) which means they are biological conditions that have a proven basis in genetic inheritance. This is why the rates of suicide among Autistics and Aspergians are lower than Transgenders, because their brains have had time to develop and adjust to their unique chemistry throughout the natural developmental cycle of a human. Autistics being prone to sensory overload in particular is a good example of this development in practice.

Transgenderism is a 'mental disorder' with absolutely no biological basis. It is in a person's mind and must be treated as such. Like you said, transgenders can feel better about themselves when they've transition but there is no escaping fundamental human biology. Changing the sexual organs and the hormones in a transgendered person does not address the underlying issue that they are suffering from a mental disorder. This is probably POTUS, or the Secretary of Defense's, argument for banning them from the military - and it's actually well-founded.

There's a quality of life element there is what I'm saying.

People who are born with hermaphroditism, who have their biological gender decided for them then develop naturally into the opposite one?

Ohhh what was is name? David Reimer? He wasn't born intersexed but rather was the victim of a botched circumcision which resulted in a penectomy, his doctor suggested he be treated and raised as a girl. This failed miserably.

Which the doctor in question was a *** weirdo anyway, he apparently had David and his brother Bruce act out gender roles with David being the female gender roles. Either way, David ended up identifying as male, and was hoping to have genital reconstruction till his wife left him and he fell into depression and committed suicide.

There's also those who suffer from a disorder called Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome in which a genetically male child is born female. They look female, develope female breasts, and have a vulva rather than a penis and scrotum. They DO, however, usually have a stunted vagina with absence of a cervix, uterus, and ovaries. Instead they have undescended testes which remain underdeveloped, and are usually removed due to a tendency to turn cancerous. Anyway, this isn't much different than a post-op transwoman but you never really hear anyone make any comparison.

Hermaphroditism? You mean people who have sexual organs of both men and women? How is this applicable to transgenderism?

Case where gender is assigned to female at 17mo develops into a male:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9651461/?i=3&from=/3676994/related


Case with hermaphroditism:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/3676994/

What I am getting at is that there is a biological basis, not for all but it does occur.

First link is about David Reimer.

Or rather it mentions him.

Yeah the first link is two cases.

One where gender identity issues manifested and one where the reassignment was successfull

This is wrong.

Pre-operation transgenders have a suicide rate of approximately 40%, yeah it's that *** high. Post-operation transgenders have suicide rate of ~40%. It doesn't change at all, nor is there any other material difference in amount of psychiatric medication prescribed or any other measurable difference in quality of life. Transitioning doesn't change anything materially.

This is the ***Rua's talking about, medical science is pretty clear on this, yet because the results disagree with the Approved Narrative it's classified a "Hate Fact" and summarily ignored for a false yet politically correct idea.

Liberals: There are 500 million transgender soldiers currently serving their Country honorably.

Why is it when a poll comes out and shows Trump's approval rating dropping or those who want him to resign or be impeached, you guys *** about the numbers and flawed studies and whatnot but then expect me to trust numbers you cite?

I'm talking of my experience with people I know. Your numbers don't really change anything about people I know.

It's not.

Hermaphrodites happen when there is a transcription error in the DNA and the fetus gets two X chromosomes and one Y chromosome. This causes all sorts of hell with their development with the resulting being a sterile human who can't reproduce on their own.


Transgenders are people who have 100% the biology of their birth gender but developed a mental condition and self medicate by LARPing another gender. They tend to have extreme depression and a host of other mental conditions that are later treated by heavy medication.

Also, when you speak in absolutes like that, it makes you look like a belligerent fool.

Every American is in the military and transgendered to boot??

/panic and run.

Sometimes he comes across as so well studied, knowledgeable, and articulate.

Then there are times like this.

That is subjective information, your "feeling" your way through a logical question.

Actual studies show there is no objective material difference between a pre-operation and a post-operation transgender. They have the same suicide rate, the same amount of medications prescribed and the same mental disorders that entail those prescriptions. The people who do these studies are the psychologists that transgenders see to cope. It's not a *** survey but derived from medical data.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/


That was like 15 seconds. There is a lot more you can read up on, the gist is that psychologists are now wary of recommending gender reassignment surgery because it's likely to be a cosmetic coping mechanism. The underlying mental issues need to first be identified and dealt with before going down the path of surgery.

"They are just born that way and are perfectly fine" has been proven to be complete snowflake ***.

My personal beliefs are that people should be allowed to do whatever they want to themselves. If some people with a mental disorder want to LARP then who am I to judge. Just don't go around trying to use big government to beat everyone into giving those people special and preferential treatment.

You are wrong.

Medical data directly contradicts your statement. Objective studies directly supports my statement. Who's really the fool.

There are people who aren't part of your religious cult, your going to have to accept that at some point in time.