High End Sets Advice/Suggestions/Ideas/LUA
High End Sets Advice/Suggestions/Ideas/LUA
People really have different equipment for different value of rolls?
SimonSes said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: »
I don't agree that x-hits are useless....
Landing on 990 TP over and over on trash mob farming, when you know even a 1k WS will kill it, and having to wait another attack round to move on to the next one can get real old fast during a 30-60 minute event.
We've all been there. I also still use my flamma head/feet, the tp gain in superior than full sakpata when I don't need the extra -DT.
Landing on 990 TP over and over on trash mob farming, when you know even a 1k WS will kill it, and having to wait another attack round to move on to the next one can get real old fast during a 30-60 minute event.
We've all been there. I also still use my flamma head/feet, the tp gain in superior than full sakpata when I don't need the extra -DT.
I can understand that for scenario without SAM roll, but with SAM roll being random, are you have different set for each value of SAM roll? Including using Crooked card or not?
I do have 2 sets for with and without SAM roll based on whether my lua detects if buffactive sees a SAM roll, yes. The SAM roll number is based on a decent roll, I forget which store tp amount I chose (I wanted to be conservative to make sure). Every roll amount would be hard to implement... I also have 2 subtle blow sets depending if I have auspice on or not, a hp set if I'm in weakened status etc.
I take my dark knighting seriously lol....
Odin.Kingofthenorth said: »
People really have different equipment for different value of rolls?
I don't but respect if someone does....
Hmm X-hit was a bigger thing before they made many of the WS's scale better, now it's just pure TP per second vs survivability.
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That and we had maybe 10~20% MA if not war/thf instead of the ~50+ we have now in gear
One can only push WSdmg so far. At some point, one must consider two things- what happens in between the WSs, or reducing the time between WSs.
Simon's point on if you're really still trying to manage x-Hit builds, you're going to have to make between 4-7 sets to manage all the different values of Samurai's Roll one could possibly receive, let alone different sets for +5,+7, or +8 roll CORs. Not to mention you're purposely gimping your damage when properly buffed by assuming you'll always WS @1k TP, which on DRK is a MASSIVE no-no in my book. Our stuff just scales so well with TP, and when buffed we gain it so fast....why stop at 1k when often we can keep the chain and WS at 2200?
X-Hit builds in the situation of trash mobs and trust buffs are a discussion worth having- if your goal in game is just trash mobs.
Simon's point on if you're really still trying to manage x-Hit builds, you're going to have to make between 4-7 sets to manage all the different values of Samurai's Roll one could possibly receive, let alone different sets for +5,+7, or +8 roll CORs. Not to mention you're purposely gimping your damage when properly buffed by assuming you'll always WS @1k TP, which on DRK is a MASSIVE no-no in my book. Our stuff just scales so well with TP, and when buffed we gain it so fast....why stop at 1k when often we can keep the chain and WS at 2200?
X-Hit builds in the situation of trash mobs and trust buffs are a discussion worth having- if your goal in game is just trash mobs.
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The only real distinction is Samurai's roll vs no Samurai's roll as that changes the relative value of MA vs Store TP on gear. The extremely generic relation is 2 Store TP > 1 MA > 1 Store TP. The more Store TP we have the less value it has against MA, the more MA we have the less value it has against Store TP. MA deals damage and provides TP, Store TP just gives TP.
This helps a ton to figure out average attacks per round vs Store TP.
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/31534/math-oax-multi-attack-and-you/#1926862
A set with an AAPR of 1.8 would have the same TP speed as 80 Store TP with 0 MA.
This helps a ton to figure out average attacks per round vs Store TP.
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/31534/math-oax-multi-attack-and-you/#1926862
A set with an AAPR of 1.8 would have the same TP speed as 80 Store TP with 0 MA.
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Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »
One can only push WSdmg so far. At some point, one must consider two things- what happens in between the WSs, or reducing the time between WSs.
Simon's point on if you're really still trying to manage x-Hit builds, you're going to have to make between 4-7 sets to manage all the different values of Samurai's Roll one could possibly receive, let alone different sets for +5,+7, or +8 roll CORs. Not to mention you're purposely gimping your damage when properly buffed by assuming you'll always WS @1k TP, which on DRK is a MASSIVE no-no in my book. Our stuff just scales so well with TP, and when buffed we gain it so fast....why stop at 1k when often we can keep the chain and WS at 2200?
X-Hit builds in the situation of trash mobs and trust buffs are a discussion worth having- if your goal in game is just trash mobs.
Simon's point on if you're really still trying to manage x-Hit builds, you're going to have to make between 4-7 sets to manage all the different values of Samurai's Roll one could possibly receive, let alone different sets for +5,+7, or +8 roll CORs. Not to mention you're purposely gimping your damage when properly buffed by assuming you'll always WS @1k TP, which on DRK is a MASSIVE no-no in my book. Our stuff just scales so well with TP, and when buffed we gain it so fast....why stop at 1k when often we can keep the chain and WS at 2200?
X-Hit builds in the situation of trash mobs and trust buffs are a discussion worth having- if your goal in game is just trash mobs.
No one's advocating WSing at 1k but there's times it's appropriate. Example: If the mob can be one shot at ANY tp or if the mob is at a low enough hp level that you know the 1k tp will due or if you're in a skillchain window and you know catching that second torcleaver at 1k to light is going to do more dmg than holding for a second 2k torcleaver.
Saying x-hit is "meaningless" is ridiculous. I agree it has diminished in importance but I prefer to optimize my gearsets based on the buffs I have. If it bridges a TP short fall due to a bad roll or whatever then its going to do alot more for you than that 5% more DA. I consider ALL stats and buffs in my setups and my lua switches appropriately.
Give me 1010 TP and 5% less DA vs 990 TP and 5% more DA all day. Shaving an attack round can be a huge performance boost.
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: »
Saying x-hit is "meaningless" is ridiculous. I agree it has diminished in importance but I prefer to optimize my gearsets based on the buffs I have. If it bridges a TP short fall due to a bad roll or whatever then its going to do alot more for you than that 5% more DA. I consider ALL stats and buffs in my setups and my lua switches appropriately.
Fixating on an arbitrary number of hits to 100 has long since become meaningless as we now focus on TP gain speed. Previously we had WS's that would scale like 2.0/2.5/3.0, resulting in holding TP to be a net DPS loss with the optimal strategy being to WS as fast as possible at 100TP. Since most of our WS's now have linear or close to linear damage growth, there is no potential DPS loss from being above 1K and instead extra TP held just results in a stronger WS.
The number you should be looking at is TP gain over time, which is a result of both Multi-Attack and Store TP. In your example you think going at 1010 instead of 990 is better, but what you didn't think of is that in one extra round you would go from 990 -> 1240 and that would be the same for total damage.
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Fixating on an arbitrary number of hits to 100 has long since become meaningless as we now focus on TP gain speed. Previously we had WS's that would scale like 2.0/2.5/3.0, resulting in holding TP to be a net DPS loss with the optimal strategy being to WS as fast as possible at 100TP.
Fixating on spreadsheets and python programs that even the creators state clearly DO NOT FACTOR every aspect of gameplay is equally meaningless. They work great if the mob has a billion hp. It's lazy and ignores fundamentals. This game is 80% trash mobs / 20% nms.
Asura.Saevel said: »
Since most of our WS's now have linear or close to linear damage growth, there is no potential DPS loss from being above 1K and instead extra TP held just results in a stronger WS.
Don't listen to these snake oil salesman folks!!! Remember the fundamentals.
The 1k is just as important as the 2.2k. Each are a factor in game play. No one sits around holding tp all night, total garbage.
They want to sell you their sexy spreadsheets with fantasy scenarios built into them. It's a trap... x-hit lives matter!
Tata and farewell...
The 1k is just as important as the 2.2k. Each are a factor in game play. No one sits around holding tp all night, total garbage.
They want to sell you their sexy spreadsheets with fantasy scenarios built into them. It's a trap... x-hit lives matter!
Tata and farewell...
Looks like someone forgot to take their meds...
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...and of all the jobs, we're top 3 for the damage in between weaponskills mattering in our total DPS. We're not goddam Naegling WARs here, folks.
[+]
min-maxing is just benchmarking and showing what's possible. you don't have to play that way (different sets for different rolls) but it's still a contribution to truth of performance within the context of the game, and a measurement that should be appreciated. You're not going to get judged if you're 5% below that benchmark, maybe even 10-15%. the swinging *** are all 30+ now. It's more of a "here's what could potentially be done, and there is evidence it's being done/achieved". as opposed to a " my peepee so big yours so small".
Having said that, if you buy a sports car, treat it like a sports car.
Having said that, if you buy a sports car, treat it like a sports car.
Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello said: »
Don't listen to these snake oil salesman folks!!! Remember the fundamentals.
The 1k is just as important as the 2.2k. Each are a factor in game play. No one sits around holding tp all night, total garbage.
They want to sell you their sexy spreadsheets with fantasy scenarios built into them. It's a trap... x-hit lives matter!
Tata and farewell...
The 1k is just as important as the 2.2k. Each are a factor in game play. No one sits around holding tp all night, total garbage.
They want to sell you their sexy spreadsheets with fantasy scenarios built into them. It's a trap... x-hit lives matter!
Tata and farewell...
Your example of trash being killed with 1000TP WS can be reversed. With Sakpata and stronger white damage its possible you will kill that trash without even using WS, but by swinging 2 more rounds and can one shot another trash with 2000TP right away without TPing.
[+]
Nariont said: »
You guys take the bait every time
Not like I have better things to do on toilet anyway..
[+]
Necro Bump Detected!
[66 days between previous and next post]Unless I just flat out don’t understand damage formulas, Torcleaver is, worst case scenario, a 26% damage loss firing at 2k TP vs 1k TP. It scales down the closer to 1k you fire, and of course it’s painting the perfect picture of doing 2 right at 1k tp vs 1 at 2k tp. Cross Reaper breaks even in that scenario. But that’s just focusing on the TP aspect. In the above scenario, when sitting at 990 tp, adding in 5% DA WILL boost you to 1240, but that’s happening 5 Weaponskill cycles out of 100 where the extra STP is 100 out of 100, which is what, 25% more weaponskills over the 5% DA scenario?
EDIT: Oops sorry for necro, just got back into DRK and making sure my gear sets looks ok.
EDIT: Oops sorry for necro, just got back into DRK and making sure my gear sets looks ok.
It's simple, people like to see big numbers, doing smaller numbers at a higher frequency isn't as sexy. Different WS's have different values that are optional for time vs damage, stuff like Savage Blade is 2K+ or don't bother while stuff like Resolution / Torc is pretty linear with a small penalty for holding due to TP Bonus not scaling with time. That penalty is neglible or turns into a bonus if the closing WS creates a SC.
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It depends- the forced post-WS delay can favor waiting a little longer, especially with Empyrean AM3.
Necro Bump Detected!
[47 days between previous and next post]
Are the gearsets assuming sakpata and nyame are r30 or would r0 r20 work as well?
While not true in all sets, you can get away with nyame is r25 and sakpata is r0.
Some sets vary, like subtle blow requires sakpata to be R20+.
And obviously,the higher the rank the better.
Some sets vary, like subtle blow requires sakpata to be R20+.
And obviously,the higher the rank the better.
When it was made it would've been r20 but again like other person said sakpata anything over r15 was already bis for tp and ws wise so.
intrloper said: »
Just finished Liberator and super confused about sets for when AM3 is up/down.
ItemSet 373796
ItemSet 385695
Looking for a good all around up/down 50 DT hybrid set. is it just 5/5 R30 Sakpata?
I looked at the python damage simulator but it shows completely different stuff depending on a little as if last resort is up. Thanks for helping a new DRK out.
ItemSet 373796
ItemSet 385695
Looking for a good all around up/down 50 DT hybrid set. is it just 5/5 R30 Sakpata?
I looked at the python damage simulator but it shows completely different stuff depending on a little as if last resort is up. Thanks for helping a new DRK out.
It depends what you're doing. You say you want a DT hybrid set while your AM3 is up and down? That's mostly going to be full Sakpata, even at R0. TPing in Odyssean and Valorous isn't safe against anything dangerous, although the Store TP on them are amazing when nicely augmented. I'm waiting to max augment my Liberator before I get back to my own sets, but I know when I do, I'll probably phase out the old Geas fete gear. I often take hate and getting caught in that is not worth it.
When using the python damage calculator, lock in the full Sakpata set and make your sets around that, and you'll get better results. I guess you could make an absolute best AM3 TP set with Ody/Valorous for trash, but you'll be carrying around more gear and having another set for this trivial situation. You can get away with using Flamma more, because we can still use it for situations like landing Armor/Full Break with a Great Axe, so they have more than one purpose, but not in any Hybrid -DT sets.
Lib is so old school, it's Foenaria +Origin or bust :D
intrloper said: »
What about something like this?
It seems and i could be wrong here but once i move into a hybrid set there doesnt seem to be different sets for AM3 up and down.
I believe the program assumes AM3 will always be up, so if you want to make an AM3 Down set, you'd have to switch Liberator out for another, similar Scythe. I wouldn't go with Apocalypse because of its +60 Accuracy, but Anguta could be a good substitute because it doesn't have the extra accuracy and also has the same delay.
Also, it's not terrible to use Hjarrendi, but Sakpata would be superior on anything magical. You're more likely to resist enfeebles that would hurt your overall DPS in Sakpata, but Hjarrendi gives you more STP, so it depends what you want.
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