High End Sets Advice/Suggestions/Ideas/LUA

I dont look at xhit at all with Caladbolg or Redemption, because Caladbolg DPS almost doesnt fall down with TP overflow and Redemption dps increase with TP overflow (most optimal is WSing above 2k for it).

Dunno about Simon, but I gave up caring about WS x-hit builds with Empyrean Weapons long ago. Sakpata makes the white damage so competitive in its share of one's overall dps that ensuring x-hit just isn't worth it. Add in the scenarios where's there's too many DD's to effectively chain, and boosting what damage comes without weaponskilling can really simplify things for a group, not just a single person. And lastly- once you push your attack round damage up to a point, the delay caused by WS'ing can actually result in a loss of dps due to that delay. I'm not sure if DRK reaches that point, but I know my Ukon WAR, which uses a very similar AM3 build to my Caladbolg build, definitely does.

Ehh it is probably incorrect to lose your chance at having 1k tp for when you need it, being stuck at like 997 (we are taling a small amount of stp here).. for a small change. I understand pure dps spreedsheet cool kid numbers it might work that way. In practical play though changing heteroi to moonlight for example will cover the stp difference at a marginal to almost insignificant dps loss, give you some Dt, and allow you to sc when needed, toss out that 1 last remaining ws before party wipes, have 1k tp on start of next mob to ws it while engaging.

All those scenarios could mean a big difference in dps. I understand the tp overflow isnt a big issue in the drks sole dps, it can hinder its overall dps though reagrding missing a sc, not being able to ws immediately to just kill something without engaging (letting you smack next mob faster), or worst case scenario wiping at 1% on a mob, when you're stuck at 1 hit from ws tp range.

I could give you examples of exactly opposite real scenarios.
Shaol C you get 1000tp, but you shouldnt use torc at 1000 because mob will be left at 20%hp and you will need to WS again, not to mention you will take hate and eat strong tp move, because mob will have 1000 tp and will use it under 25% HP.
You Skillchain with someone or need to time WS between tp moves or something similar and you need to wait anyway.
You self skillchain and you want to wait for higher tp overflow anyway.

It really works both ways in real scenarios, so ideally you should have xhit and white damage build, if you want to be optimal for everything.

There is also another factor - Samurai roll.
What store tp you assume from it? If you assume max and build xhit around it, then it won't work if you not get max. If you assume lower and will get higher, then you could end up using store tp pieces you don't need, instead of things with higher DPS still maintaining same xhit.

I LOVE the point about Sheol:C. Drives me absolute batshit to watch people build to 1k TP, then drop a Savage/Fudo/Torcleaver/Upheaval (and many more) that drops the mob below 25% and then eat a TP move instead of just building TP overflow, dropping the mob to the low 80s with white dmg, and then drop a 2k WS for the killshot without ever having to see a mob use a TP move. Much more efficient kill style, easier on your tank and healer.

And yes, different weapons work better with x-hit build concepts for long chaining, but when I asked about the groups' thoughts on Flamma Head+2 vs Sakpata Helm for empyrean and relic weapons, it was specifically for those weapons, and those concepts. Liberator and Anguta of course gain more from x-hit builds.

Its all about having options, and then maxing the strongest aspects of those options...not about spreadsheet addiction.

yes I am more worried about having that 1k tp asap for when the others do drop mob to 25% I can quickly end it before they do any moves. I mean we can go around all day with scenarios. Mine however get a benefit FROM having a little extra stp, at basically no loss to dps. So why not have that utility?

At worst case your stp gets you to a high tp amount for your ws which in itself translates to more ws dmg. I can't see the reasoning from gimping yourself at ending up with 990's~ tp on purpose when it is so easily obtained to end at 1k+ and have options to use it or not.

If you were to consider x-hit TP builds for empyrean or relic, you'd want to do it without Samurai roll. There's a small chance you won't have it for some reason, and you're best off being ready for that. If there's TP overflow, it's not a big deal.

There are so many variables to making these sets though. What are you fighting? Do you need extra accuracy? Are you getting no madrigals, or two? What about multi-attack? Which food are you using? What are your dark matter augments like? Can you afford to use Geas Fete equipment over the more defensive Sakpata? Then there's Dragoon subjob, which has become far more useful now we have the jumps.

This is what makes it difficult in this era, because there are so many options. It's great having options, but in terms of min-maxing, you need many different sets for all of these permutations. Some will go extreme with it, while others are only bothered about covering the basics. Lack of inventory can make this a headache too, if you want a TP set for almost any possibility.

For me, it's about feeling prepared, but not too much. I can see why some just don't bother with x-hits anymore (outside mythic AM3), it's hardly ever a problem these days. Having enough accuracy is more important.

Edit: On something else, my Endark set has 622 Dark Magic skill at M20. This gets us to the next tier, but you need an Abyssal Earring to do it. My set is the same as the one posted by Azagarth, except Dark is replaced by Abyssal.

Edit2: Not thrilled about using Ullr in Absorb/Drain/MACC sets, because of the loss of TP. Worthwhile if you are casting from the back line, but not in the middle of a melee fight. Could use Liberator for Absorb set as it's 50% potency.

Edit3: Father Time in the Drain set is expensive, but it's Drain+25% on path C. Otherwise you could use Liberator for the magic accuracy, or a fully augmented Apocalyse for Drain+10%. Also, not understanding the choice of Nehalennia Earring. Wouldn't Malignance be better? Austerity Belt +1 is an alternative if you can't afford Orpheus. Is there a special hidden stat on the Dark Grip? Or wouldn't Khonsu be more beneficial?

Edit4: Most people won't have a Gold Moogle Belt, so Oneiros Belt will do for Dread Spikes.

Edit5: Why would anyone use a Vim Torque +1? 50 HP a tick isn't nice, and you only get the Regain if you're engaged. I guess if you have a potent Regen V? Otherwise I don't understand why anyone uses it. All it takes is a move knocking you down in to red and it's an easy KO.

DRK is one of the highest HP jobs in the game, provided you arent getting constant dispels, on top of being fairly sturdy on its own merit. Vim isnt really a concern unless you can't keep that hp buffer going or its simply too taxing for healing for some reason.

I guess, but it just seems a bit much. It's almost like having Souleater full time, and I bet healers hate that. Not an issue if you have a Scholar doing a potency Regen V, but otherwise it's a worry. Even more so if you get a Final Sting or another similar move that knocks you in to red.

Majority of throat stab moves can be DT'd to reasonable levels if i remember right, ontop of being fairly rare occuances on its own, and every healer has atleast regen 2 which at its base potency is 12/tic, you don't "need" a V even a II can cut it to more reasonable levels, even more if said healer has a regen set, which is always handy to have, even if you aren't SCH

Thanks, I didn't think about it that way. Just looking for ways to enhance my DRK more, so maybe I should give this a try? Although I've always liked the idea of surviving more. That 50 hp tick means the Regen wouldn't heal me up like it usually would, which could mean the difference in a tougher fight. Maybe just reserve it for trash mobs?

Best advice i could say is just play around with it and see how you/others deal with the tic drop, mp wise healing is a non-issue in any scenario the healer has a refresh of some kind available, nor is hate generally. When all's said and done the jse+2 neck works just as well with no drawbacks, so if the tics hurt that much can simply swap back to that.

Thanks for the input. I would not expect anyone to have an abyssal earring at this point in the game. Suppa is just such a clear winner for 99.9% of people. It however IS bis, so if you only play drk and no dw jobs, I can see it being a choice. Most people will gear multi jobs though even if just for ody. Once they add more ML too it might be irrelevant anyhow.

Ullr and Pemphredo are listed, you obviously cant use both in the same set. I would hope people would pick and choose based on tp levels so it doent hurt to have them added. I might need to make a note of it though since it seems to not be clear.

If not using Father Time, Misanthropy will probably be next bis. Now for the earring and grip its because it LOWERS your hp by 80hp with some macc, instead of raising it 70hp and no macc, that 150 hp differenence is transalated into an increase for your drain. Any hp exceeding your tp/fc set when you use drain3 will remove the potency of the drain. While not a massive change it still will result in higher max hp from the drains. I am less worried about macc in that set because you will normally use DS.

Oneiros is a great option! It does not beat gold though for any race. While its event driven its not hard to get.

So I am only using Vim torque in one tp set, if you notice it is the 4 hit apoc set. You do need it to x-hit on that set as it stands, feel free to make some stp changes if your like, ody legs is going to probably be enough with stp8 on them. However if you have a 4 hit build, you should almost never see more than 1 tic from vim, 2 occasionally. Remember cata fills hp up. I have never run into an issue where it has killed me. I would not use this with other weapons though and it is in no other tp set for that reason.

Suppa is at the point where it's feeling unneeded because belts and capes are better at filling out your DW on jobs that use it. Earrings are simply a weaker DW slot than they used to be nowadays.
Suppa and Eabani is 9 dw while losing ~20+ acc & 10 stp vs a cape that can give 10 DW at no loss but the 10 stp. If your DW job is at the most common tier where you use Eabani(or a cape) and Reiki Yotai you still don't need the suppa.
I love my Suppa, but its place has fallen drastically.

Dunno about this comment for any job that can wear adhemar. Adhemar+1 body+Suppa a really efficient way to get 11 dual wield for jobs like COR and RNG, and the same concept can be executed on jobs like RDM by going Carmine+1 legs with Suppa. I think altering a cape or waist to get up to DW thresholds needed will often end up being a much larger loss than an earring slot.

Make a toggle on your lua so you can equip it or not depending on the fight. I use it on my base DRG set when stuff isn't going to be one shotting and I hardly notice my HP dropping. When I need to use my hybrid set that Vim gets swapped out. With the frequency of weaponskills these days you will be swapping out of it fairly often.

I don't use Gearswap Lua, so I'd have to make a different set.


- That's a great point about the HP in your Drain set. Having it higher than your TP or FC set makes you lose out some. I never thought about that before, I could have been missing out on some of my Drain 3 power for years. That's something I'm going to look in to, and if I can find a better solution I will. Don't fancy having to add two extra pieces of equipment to lower my HP.

- About Abyssal, DRK has always been my main, so when I got it all those years ago I couldn't depart with it. My dual wield jobs were secondary and still are. Having Reiki Yotai helps a ton, especially on THF.

- I would probably make a note that the Vim Torque +1 needs to be fully augmented to be worthy. You shouldn't be losing out on the accuracy for the regain, but the 50 hp a tick loss should be taken in to consideration. When I use Apocalypse it's only for emergencies, as in I'm tanking something, so having that HP loss is not something I or the healer would enjoy.

On to something else, I'm thinking about a TP set for my Caladbolg on wave 3 Dynamis-D. Preferably something that should cap accuracy on THF mobs with food and madrigals. I'm not good at figuring out how much accuracy I would need, has anyone made a set like this? From the BGwiki guide, it suggests having 1600+ for wave 3. How much will I need before those buffs, 1300 or less?

RDM is a special case due to the kathwack belt removing a 5~7 DW/stp slot
Cor and rng generally do not DW swords in both hands. This means the offhand is losing around acc/atk 10 stp 5 while the mainhand is losing acc/atk/stp 5. Rng in particular is losing valuable acc on a non ilv weapon since I'm guessing you were referencing kraken club offhands for rng?
Bst turned out to be better off not even bothering with capping DW the last time I saw them debate engaged sets on the forums.
THF has a DW 5 trait at 500ish that means they need 6 dw to cap. This usually means the adhemar body +1, a cape, or a Reiki yotai to overcap by 1% depending on what stats you want to sacrifice least in the other slots.
Dnc has more dw than it can deal with + haste samba.
Nin has DW gear in just about every slot you can pick from.

Suppa is probably still there in some random sets I'm neglecting, but the point I was making is that it's currently a situational sidegrade at best vs abyssal being best in slot. That's well into the realm of easily justifiable imo.

you all are assuming haste capped all the time..... There exists dispels, crappy support, lack of support, solo play, unique job combos where suppa not only is nice but can be required to cap delay.

The second you're not haste capped suppa is probably the first swap you will be making.

No disputing that, Suppa should be there for people who regularly play several dual wield jobs. However, this is a DRK thread, and we don't need that, so if you're a player who for example, only brings out DRK, WHM and GEO? Then Abyssal would be right.

I don't think anyone is neglecting the options Suppa brings to other jobs, but as others said, it's not as crucial as it once was. It's better for trait starved jobs like dual wield COR, which happens a lot in places like Odyssey, but there are ways around not having it. You're not losing tons of DPS by not having it, is what some will say.

Abyssal currently bumps DRK past 620 skill, so that's a big reason to have it for the time being, but not at the expense of your other jobs if that is the case.

if abyssal puts you at 622, dark puts you at 620 which is the same tier for endark

You're right, I was thinking there was a 3 skill gap between them for some reason. I feel silly now, lol. Makes me think about swapping Abyssal for Suppa, we're not really gaining anything from the other stats, although you don't know how it will play out when SE increases master level again. It means carrying around an extra earring, but the dual wield jobs would get a benefit. That's something to think about.

unless we get new gear added, or really strange ML caps, there wont' be a difference between them and can't think of any reason to own an abyssal

You're right, we'd have to be 4-5 away from 640 for Abyssal to be usable. Might have to dump the old girl and get me a new one.

I had a longer post at first, but I'm going to TLDR this on account of it being a drk thread.
Your situations with Suppa only apply to thf at 15% haste or below in Limbus/salvage because trusts exist, rng/cor can shoot,rdm has 30% haste on it's own, and people are capable of reapplying buffs.

suppa is still the only useful DM earring. even if abyssal put you to the next tier over dark earring, it would be a pathetic amount of extra damage compared to versatility of having suppa as an option. currently you should be at 90 on first hit with 620 skill, next tier is 91 and assuming you don't recast until it wears off you literally only get 91 extra damage out of the cast.

the bst not using dw is stupid too, they were literally only comparing tp/second with haste samba up but ignored the fact you'd have to waste tp to apply it yourself. and tp/second is a terrible metric anyways. there was no discussion on how much of your dps it actually affected.

drk/nin loxotic/kc and judge everything! Everyone is welcome to thier opinions.

I use suppa a lot playing this game, I have access to basically any gear. So I feel if you play other jobs than just drk, it would be silly to not get suppa. Not to mention as stated above, it does nothing atm for endark getting to the next level, maybe it will in the future?

If you played geo and whm there are times where DW is relevant and the correct choice. Both jobs can dish out some great dps now with melee.

suppa is the same decision as rajas, the other 2 are nice but are replaceable, while suppa/rajas do/did fill a wide and unique niche that isnt as easily replaceable, even with all the additional DW gear suppa is still a strong option more so than any of the other DM earrings, rajas sadly fallen off with all the options available these days, though its still fairly nice for an all-jobs ring(lvl 99 DM/CoP/AN accessories please SE)

edit: Forgot chirich was also all jobs, rip rajas

A long time ago, someone made a case for the MDT earring, but these days that argument I think doesnt apply.

What does apply, is the amount of dual wield needed under 0 haste and Haste I to reach delay cap. I don't know of any dual wield set with 0 haste or even Haste II set (on thief) that doesn't use suppanomimi.

AN is probably the "toughest" choice in the sense all the options are pretty minimal, big note these days would be the magic burst or sword enhancement ones, with a small note on the CMP one