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High End Sets Advice/Suggestions/Ideas/LUA
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-02-12 13:12:08
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Asura.Saevel said: »
So the thing about /SAM's 15 Store TP is that it's present during WS, meaning you get more back from the WS, meaning less required to get before the next WS gets fired off. So it's not just +15 during TP but also +15 during WS reducing the amount needed during TP, which is already reduced by the sub. It lets you shove more of <insert other stat we want>.

INCREDIBLY true. And oft forgotten when doing the math, so thank you for stating it plainly^^
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2021-02-12 14:03:07
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
And oft forgotten when doing the math
by who? almost everyone that says that they do any math uses the same spreadsheet
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By SimonSes 2021-02-12 14:14:16
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I often use my own math or own sheets but I don't recall ever forgetting about it. I actually recall completely opposite situation where I argued about Rostam A and B with Afania (i know it's drk thread, but talking in general) and stp during WS was main reason, that let A compete with B even for melee TP/rangedWS.
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2021-02-12 14:16:06
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incredibly sorry for making a generalized comment thanking someone and mentioning my own personal habit as I rarely use spreadsheets to my own detriment.
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 Asura.Friedrik
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By Asura.Friedrik 2021-02-12 22:54:37
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I messed around a bit on DRK tonight after being on WAR for nearly the entire time since the update. I took the Calad 6-hit build from the first page, went 5/5 Sakpata then added brutal cessance earring, telos earring, and swapped hentai ring for petrov. Normal AM3 procs were around 6500 and crits were in the mid to high 8000s, as opposed to 5000~ hits and 7000~ crits in the old set. The mobs were the spiders outside Rabao. 1.60 attacks per round, 170 TP per swing.

ItemSet 378079
*Blank spaces are Sakpata's pieces
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 Sylph.Brahmsz
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2021-02-12 23:00:30
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Asura.Friedrik said: »
hentai ring

<snicker>
 Shiva.Humpo
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By Shiva.Humpo 2021-02-14 09:13:06
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Asura.Friedrik said: »
I messed around a bit on DRK tonight after being on WAR for nearly the entire time since the update. I took the Calad 6-hit build from the first page, went 5/5 Sakpata then added brutal cessance earring, telos earring, and swapped hentai ring for petrov. Normal AM3 procs were around 6500 and crits were in the mid to high 8000s, as opposed to 5000~ hits and 7000~ crits in the old set. The mobs were the spiders outside Rabao. 1.60 attacks per round, 170 TP per swing.

ItemSet 378079
*Blank spaces are Sakpata's pieces

If the head does fully augment at +15 DA damage, would Saifi+1 still be better than an Ioskeha+1?
 Asura.Friedrik
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By Asura.Friedrik 2021-02-14 09:21:46
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Shiva.Humpo said: »

If the head does fully augment at +15 DA damage, would Saifi+1 still be better than an Ioskeha+1?

If you're 5/5 (16% haste total), then you have to use Sailfi + blue green wyvern cheer to hit 26% gear haste and ensure you're capped. To use Ioskeha +1 you'd have to throw in augged Seething Bomblet +1 as well. This set hasn't been mathed out at all, outside of making sure I hit the right STP to maintain the 6 hit. I just made a full PDL set using all of the pieces and went out and killed a ton of spiders to see how AM would do.
 Asura.Mims
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By Asura.Mims 2021-02-14 09:30:54
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Do you know something I don't, Friedrik?
Because according to BG Blue Wyvern Cheer is trust haste +5%, and its the Green Wyvern Cheer that has +1% haste for the player.
Also, as soon as I got the green cheer I popped out of my garden and tested it, finding that it was classified as magical haste not gear haste.

Green is still super good and I use it all the time. Should I start raising a blue wyvern, or did you have the two confused?
 Asura.Friedrik
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By Asura.Friedrik 2021-02-14 09:35:06
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Asura.Mims said: »
Do you know something I don't, Friedrik?
Because according to BG Blue Wyvern Cheer is trust haste +5%, and its the Green Wyvern Cheer that has +1% haste for the player.
Also, as soon as I got the green cheer I popped out of my garden and tested it, finding that it was classified as magical haste not gear haste.

Green is still super good and I use it all the time. Should I start raising a blue wyvern, or did you have the two confused?

I am 100% confused, which is actually why I made a blue wyvern first and not a green one. Not sure why I keep making that mistake over and over. Green all the way missed that part about it being magical haste, what a shame.
 Shiva.Humpo
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By Shiva.Humpo 2021-02-14 10:25:42
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Asura.Friedrik said: »

If you're 5/5 (16% haste total), then you have to use Sailfi + blue green wyvern cheer to hit 26% gear haste and ensure you're capped. To use Ioskeha +1 you'd have to throw in augged Seething Bomblet +1 as well. This set hasn't been mathed out at all, outside of making sure I hit the right STP to maintain the 6 hit. I just made a full PDL set using all of the pieces and went out and killed a ton of spiders to see how AM would do.

While I would only end up at 24%, I'm questioning if being 1% shy is really worth it or even needed at all.
With capped magic haste and 20% JA (apoc/hasso), I only need another 16.25% to cap. Even less if LR is up, in which case the set alone would let you hit delay cap?

BUT!!!! There are certainly a lot of "if" statements to look at and well.. I'd rather not travel down that path right now. I was mostly just curious if 8% DA with +15 DA damage outweighed 5% DA/2% TA w/ the 15 DA damage.
 Asura.Friedrik
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By Asura.Friedrik 2021-02-14 13:11:05
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Shiva.Humpo said: »
Asura.Friedrik said: »

If you're 5/5 (16% haste total), then you have to use Sailfi + blue green wyvern cheer to hit 26% gear haste and ensure you're capped. To use Ioskeha +1 you'd have to throw in augged Seething Bomblet +1 as well. This set hasn't been mathed out at all, outside of making sure I hit the right STP to maintain the 6 hit. I just made a full PDL set using all of the pieces and went out and killed a ton of spiders to see how AM would do.

While I would only end up at 24%, I'm questioning if being 1% shy is really worth it or even needed at all.
With capped magic haste and 20% JA (apoc/hasso), I only need another 16.25% to cap. Even less if LR is up, in which case the set alone would let you hit delay cap?

BUT!!!! There are certainly a lot of "if" statements to look at and well.. I'd rather not travel down that path right now. I was mostly just curious if 8% DA with +15 DA damage outweighed 5% DA/2% TA w/ the 15 DA damage.

Yeah there's a lot to look at for sure
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-02-14 13:33:15
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Asura.Mims said: »
Do you know something I don't, Friedrik?
Because according to BG Blue Wyvern Cheer is trust haste +5%, and its the Green Wyvern Cheer that has +1% haste for the player.
Also, as soon as I got the green cheer I popped out of my garden and tested it, finding that it was classified as magical haste not gear haste.

Green is still super good and I use it all the time. Should I start raising a blue wyvern, or did you have the two confused?

That's very good to know, we all thought it was gear haste for so long.
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 Asura.Mims
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By Asura.Mims 2021-02-14 13:54:02
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Yeah, Green Wyvern is magic haste.
To test it I got myself killed and checked the recast on reraise.
Its been a bit, but iirc I overcapped gear haste and cast reraise with the cheer off and then again with the cheer on, and then did it again to double check. Consistent difference of one second between tests.
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 Asura.Friedrik
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By Asura.Friedrik 2021-02-14 14:03:48
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Asura.Mims said: »
Yeah, Green Wyvern is magic haste.

Oof, thanks for the legwork on that one.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-14 14:11:58
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Asura.Mims said: »
Yeah, Green Wyvern is magic haste.
To test it I got myself killed and checked the recast on reraise.
Its been a bit, but iirc I overcapped gear haste and cast reraise with the cheer off and then again with the cheer on, and then did it again to double check. Consistent difference of one second between tests.

Maybe its Gear Haste II :D

Kinda joking, but wouldnt hurt to make the same test, but also overcap magic haste.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2021-02-14 15:01:33
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Sorry if I missed it.

Thoughts on a Counter Set? It doesn't really take much sacrifice honestly. It might be nice to have for when Dread Spikes is ineffective on certain enemy types.

Sakpata's Helm
Sacro Breastplate | Counter +15
Sakpata's Gauntlets
Sakpata's Cuisses
Sakpata's Leggings | Counter +5
Bathy Choker +1 | Counter +10
Ambu Cape | Counter +10

Looks like hitting 40% counter rate is pretty easy.

This alone is also at -30% DT, not including rings/other accessories.

The magic evasion is also stupid high.
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By Taint 2021-02-14 15:28:56
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Apoc DRK just got very tanky. Meva/mdb was its nemesis before. Now we have a crazy set to build off. Apoc can rock seigan/third eye and lost very little in terms of damage while sitting in capped DT,high def,meva,mdb and HP.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2021-02-14 15:38:19
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DRK in general is a lot better. You can use path B father time and pretty close or capped subtle blow depending on what you want to sacrifice and do a lot of what makes MNK good with additional tools like Stun

ItemSet 378105
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2021-02-14 16:13:27
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
DRK in general is a lot better. You can use path B father time and pretty close or capped subtle blow depending on what you want to sacrifice and do a lot of what makes MNK good with additional tools like Stun

ItemSet 378105

This might seem like a dumb question

So I have Path B Father time and was wondering how do other people utilize it? Are you holding TP for Cross Reapers or just spamming Quietus at 1000tp (Which isn't too shabby to be honest, the damage isn't too far behind Rank 15 Catastrophe for example, and it does self darkness.)

I've been using Quietus at 1000tp and Cross Reaper when I overflow to 1750.

Quietus doesn't seem to be too far behind R15 Catastrophe in terms of damage.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2021-02-14 16:18:18
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make a skillchain. you can do entropy > cross reaper > quietus easily
there is almost no situation i hold tp on any job.
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 Asura.Friedrik
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By Asura.Friedrik 2021-02-14 17:57:18
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Taint said: »
Apoc DRK just got very tanky. Meva/mdb was its nemesis before. Now we have a crazy set to build off. Apoc can rock seigan/third eye and lost very little in terms of damage while sitting in capped DT,high def,meva,mdb and HP.

It's pretty awesome. Prior to this update I had moved on from WAR/DRK for most DD situations for exactly the reason that debuffs shredded my DPS, while my MNK just powered through. I love that 2 more DDs are now more viable in debuff/magic heavy fights.
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By Taint 2021-02-14 18:32:54
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Asura.Friedrik said: »
Taint said: »
Apoc DRK just got very tanky. Meva/mdb was its nemesis before. Now we have a crazy set to build off. Apoc can rock seigan/third eye and lost very little in terms of damage while sitting in capped DT,high def,meva,mdb and HP.

It's pretty awesome. Prior to this update I had moved on from WAR/DRK for most DD situations for exactly the reason that debuffs shredded my DPS, while my MNK just powered through. I love that 2 more DDs are now more viable in debuff/magic heavy fights.

Yep 100%. I’ve been MNK almost exclusively for months.
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By bombsdiggity 2021-02-14 19:16:59
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Asura.Nuance said: »
If you’re just interested in empyrean situations and riding the AM3 and absolutely don’t care about the stp then yeah sure I guess. You’d still miss out on the hasso haste but LR cool down is t awful I suppose. Wish we could full time it

Its not so much that I'm "just interested in empyrean situations"- its more knowing that the DA from /war subjob will be more of a hindrance to a Liberator build even before this gear, and that doesn't change; that Apocalypse can compensate for probably the largest benefit /sam brings in JA Haste. I'm sure if I used my Anguta more there would be a discussion there, as well.

Empyreans do stick out though, of course, due to the synergy between a high attack job in DRK, the occasional triple damage proc from Caladbolg/Redemption, the extreme overflow of +PDL on this new set, and the unique DA damage augment to the headpiece all working together to push white damage above weaponskills in importance- and at what point it starts to win.

I mean. Do what makes you happy, but for me personally i spend so much time attack capped that warcry and berserk would do nothing for me. /sam4lyf
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2021-02-14 21:54:13
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bombsdiggity said: »
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Asura.Nuance said: »
If you’re just interested in empyrean situations and riding the AM3 and absolutely don’t care about the stp then yeah sure I guess. You’d still miss out on the hasso haste but LR cool down is t awful I suppose. Wish we could full time it

Its not so much that I'm "just interested in empyrean situations"- its more knowing that the DA from /war subjob will be more of a hindrance to a Liberator build even before this gear, and that doesn't change; that Apocalypse can compensate for probably the largest benefit /sam brings in JA Haste. I'm sure if I used my Anguta more there would be a discussion there, as well.

Empyreans do stick out though, of course, due to the synergy between a high attack job in DRK, the occasional triple damage proc from Caladbolg/Redemption, the extreme overflow of +PDL on this new set, and the unique DA damage augment to the headpiece all working together to push white damage above weaponskills in importance- and at what point it starts to win.

I mean. Do what makes you happy, but for me personally i spend so much time attack capped that warcry and berserk would do nothing for me. /sam4lyf


If attack is capped and you aren't subbing SAM, /DRG is pretty solid isn't it?
 Asura.Tawhoya
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By Asura.Tawhoya 2021-02-14 22:05:08
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Idk what situation I'd /drg over /sam though. Sam offers too much to stray for me.
 Asura.Kronkeykong
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By Asura.Kronkeykong 2021-02-14 22:14:23
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Asura.Tawhoya said: »
Idk what situation I'd /drg over /sam though. Sam offers too much to stray for me.

Enmity is the biggest problem endgame DRK has unfortunately. DRG helps, but doesn't solve it.
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By Gruknor 2021-02-14 23:16:55
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Asura.Kronkeykong said: »
Asura.Tawhoya said: »
Idk what situation I'd /drg over /sam though. Sam offers too much to stray for me.

Enmity is the biggest problem endgame DRK has unfortunately. DRG helps, but doesn't solve it.

Drg also has wsd job traits.
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By Asura.Tawhoya 2021-02-14 23:32:53
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Gruknor said: »
Asura.Kronkeykong said: »
Asura.Tawhoya said: »
Idk what situation I'd /drg over /sam though. Sam offers too much to stray for me.

Enmity is the biggest problem endgame DRK has unfortunately. DRG helps, but doesn't solve it.

Drg also has wsd job traits.

Enmity shouldn't be a reason to swap subs. WSD would be the only reason I'd consider it, but I still can't see how it overcomes what /sam brings.
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By Asura.Beanen 2021-02-15 20:16:47
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Asura.Tawhoya said: »
Gruknor said: »
Asura.Kronkeykong said: »
Asura.Tawhoya said: »
Idk what situation I'd /drg over /sam though. Sam offers too much to stray for me.

Enmity is the biggest problem endgame DRK has unfortunately. DRG helps, but doesn't solve it.

Drg also has wsd job traits.

Enmity shouldn't be a reason to swap subs. WSD would be the only reason I'd consider it, but I still can't see how it overcomes what /sam brings.

The new Odyssey earring fixes DRK enmity issue. As long as you use a scythe that is...
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