Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

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Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
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By volkom 2017-01-25 13:30:46
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Asura.Avallon said: »
volkom said: »
$20 luke dies but comes back as a force ghost.

Not to get all nerdy, but wouldn't Luke be a Force Ghost anyway if he were to pass on simply due to his affinity to the Light? It's how Anakin was able to become one when Luke saved his life in RotJ.

iono maybe? felt more like vader/anakin just died, they burned his body and he's all like hey i'ma ghost now. then they decided to insert hayden christensen over sebastian shaw
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By Faelar 2017-01-25 13:35:52
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-01-25 13:36:58
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That's not right!

The color of the next Star Wars logo has to be Green, with lots of lens flares.
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By Jetackuu 2017-01-25 13:38:44
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Viciouss said: »
Boba Fett? Well he is awesome
No, no he isn't.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-01-25 13:40:15
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Viciouss said: »
Boba Fett? Well he is awesome and all but..his own movie?
Wasn't Episode II Boba Fett's movie?

There wasn't anything else happening during the entire movie, except awkward lovey-dovey crap.
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-01-25 13:52:26
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
That's not right!

The color of the next Star Wars logo has to be Green, with lots of lens flares.



loooooooooooooool.. JJ has gotten so much crap about his over use of lens flares it's not even funny. He even admits to it in the first Star Trek he directed.
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By Sylph.Mizzou 2017-01-25 14:06:45
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KOTR would be nice--just not the violent ending SWTOR gave that can only be described as vomit. Revan deserved more.

Killing off Luke w/o really seeing him be a badass would ruin his legacy (in terms of cinematic adventures)--survives $20.
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2017-01-25 15:25:00
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volkom said: »
Asura.Avallon said: »
volkom said: »
$20 luke dies but comes back as a force ghost.

Not to get all nerdy, but wouldn't Luke be a Force Ghost anyway if he were to pass on simply due to his affinity to the Light? It's how Anakin was able to become one when Luke saved his life in RotJ.

iono maybe? felt more like vader/anakin just died, they burned his body and he's all like hey i'ma ghost now. then they decided to insert hayden christensen over sebastian shaw

The "Force Ghost" thing has me baffled. Originally, it seemed like any Jedi that died became one. Obi-Won spoke to Luke in A New Hope, then appeared in Empire and Jedi, them Yoda and Anakin at the end of Jedi.

But then, at the end of Revenge of the Sith, Yoda stated it's something that had to be learned, and Qui-Gon had discovered how to do it. It's further discussed in The Clone Wars, but it is still extremely hard to do. That in mind chow did Vader/Anakin learn it? Surely the Emperor would have sensed something was up if Qui-Gon tried to teach Vader and pull him back to the Light Side.

Anyone have insight into this?
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-01-25 15:57:41
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Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »
volkom said: »
Asura.Avallon said: »
volkom said: »
$20 luke dies but comes back as a force ghost.

Not to get all nerdy, but wouldn't Luke be a Force Ghost anyway if he were to pass on simply due to his affinity to the Light? It's how Anakin was able to become one when Luke saved his life in RotJ.

iono maybe? felt more like vader/anakin just died, they burned his body and he's all like hey i'ma ghost now. then they decided to insert hayden christensen over sebastian shaw

The "Force Ghost" thing has me baffled. Originally, it seemed like any Jedi that died became one. Obi-Won spoke to Luke in A New Hope, then appeared in Empire and Jedi, them Yoda and Anakin at the end of Jedi.

But then, at the end of Revenge of the Sith, Yoda stated it's something that had to be learned, and Qui-Gon had discovered how to do it. It's further discussed in The Clone Wars, but it is still extremely hard to do. That in mind chow did Vader/Anakin learn it? Surely the Emperor would have sensed something was up if Qui-Gon tried to teach Vader and pull him back to the Light Side.

Anyone have insight into this?

I too assumed that all Jedi were 'eligible' to become Force Ghosts due to their affinity to the Light side (maybe as compensation for being unable to use the more powerful Dark side Force abilities? Joking, of course).

Anakin, after living a full life of evil and murder, was able to turn back to the Light right before his death and he was able to (automatically) become a Force ghost. I'm not sure how much time there would have been in those few remaining moments in the hangar for Luke to 'teach' his father how to achieve the afterglow status.

So yeah, I too am a little confused as well as curious. I'm certainly not an expert on Canon but I interpreted what Yoda said in Episode III about Qui-Gon as though he was the first Jedi to experience becoming a Force ghost. Someone feel free to correct me there.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-01-25 16:41:19
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Asura.Avallon said: »
how to achieve the afterglow status
10,000 Plutons, of course.

He had them stashed away before he was electrocuted. What else do you think he was doing all those years while Luke/Leia was growing up to take down their father (eventually).

I mean, he certainly wasn't taking out the Rebellion. You would think that anyone as awesome as Vader and the Emperor, who basically masterminded and singlehandedly took over a democracy of over a thousand star systems that was held for over a thousand generations would do something so small as to beat down a rebellion to his NWO.

Nope, got to collect those Plutons. For afterglow!
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By Asura.Ivlilla 2017-01-25 16:44:51
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Crazy theory time:

Star Wars is going full Avatar: the Last Airbender.

The Chosen One is a single entity as far as the Force goes, a reincarnated figure that's brought about for reasons periodically, but like Moorcock's Eternal Champion, while Balance is the goal, both sides, Light and Dark (instead of Law and Chaos, although maybe they're more or less the same thing), can sway the Chosen One either way.

Rey is a reincarnation of Anakin, who was himself a reincarnation of the previous Chosen One; Darth Plagueis either didn't create Anakin, or didn't create him whole cloth, but instead merely 'forced' a Chosen One to appear, perhaps out of his proper time, specifically to make him more easily sway-able by the dark side.

Anakin being an incarnation of the chosen one is the very reason he was able to force ghost immediately without previously knowing the method.

Rey being the reincarnation of Anakin is why she has force visions in connection to Anakin's lightsaber. It is his lightsaber, right? I've not actually seen the movie.

The reason Finn is able to fight with a lightsaber, and had a force awakening early in the movie (which Kylo Ren noticed), is because Anakin is not the Chosen one. Darth Plagueis forcing the incarnation of a chosen one was done while a chosen one was already incarnated: Mace Windu. This is likely the reason Anakin was so easily swayed by the dark side.

Since the Force, the Living Force, I think it's called, is more like Brahman, as I understand it, the specific incarnation of a Chosen One is more like the atman, a specific, temporary, separate existence of the Living Force, intended as an agent to affect a specific change.

Mace Windu, when killed by Anakin from his fall (despite Jedi being shown surviving considerable falls -- even relatively untrained ones), meant that the naturally occurring Chosen One's individual existence ceased, was returned to the Living Force, and that that potential individual's potential existence was 'freed up'.

Finn exists because Rey exists. Darth Plagueis reasons for creating Anakin are a matter of pure speculation (as is more or less everything I just typed), but it may be that he realized that having a single chosen one was actually detrimental overall; there are two sides to the force: the Light, and the Dark. Having such an important being capable of such great effects be perhaps more or less randomly dedicated to one side or another was not good for everyone in the long run.

Having two Chosen Ones, and the Chosen One was meant to bring balance would mean that one, whose incarnatability was forced by Plagueis, could be dedicated to the Dark, and the naturally occurring one, since the Chosen One is meant to bring Balance, would be forced towards the Light by the Living Force.

This would, in theory, result in a more constant, less chaotic 'balancing' of things.

It also means that eventually Rey will turn to the Dark Side. She's actually seen at more than one point, iirc, using specific moves that are only used by Palpatine. Given that we don't actually see a whole lot of Sith doing a whole lot of fighting, it is possible that those attacks were not the specific style of Palpatine alone; We see Darth Maul, Sidious, Tyranus, and Vader fight.

Maul fought using a double-ended Saber, which means he does not belong in our consideration of one-bladed saber users. Of the remaining three, Vader and Tyranus (iirc), were both originally trained by the Jedi, in Jedi techniques. Their introduction to Sith styles, if they were actually trained in them at all, would be after years, decades, for Tyranus, of fighting in a Jedi-specific style. Vader would, additionally, have a great deal of difficulty in fighting after the change from Anakin to Vader in the suit, due to the limited mobility of the suit, and the loss of so much of his actual body.

This means, of the three of the side-sided saber wielding Sith we see fight, that only Darth Sidious was fully and completely trained in light saber combat by a Sith Lord. It could well be that his style is simply one of many Sith styles, or the generic Sith style. If it's the generic style, that would account for Rey's seemingly entirely untrained use of similar fighting techniques to Sidious; her specific Chosen One-hoodness existance is a direct result of a Sith Lord manipulating the Living Force, something that, iirc, Sidious claimed Plagueis was capable of.

So, in a reversal of history, a Jedi, Anakin, trained by Kenobi, who became a Sith Lord, with be a reflection of Rey, a future Sith Lord, who was trained by Luke, a Jedi, who was also trained, like his father, by Kenobi. I doubt it's coincidence that Kenobi is the 'grandfather', in terms of training, of both Dark Side Chosen Ones.

I forget where the hell I was going with this. Oh well.

[edit]Altana, all those damn spelling and other errors.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-01-25 17:03:23
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You forgot Kylo Ren in the whole scenario.

Edit: Besides, we all know that Rey is the daughter of Solo and Organa....or Organa-Solo if you will (EU nerds unite! Jacen & Jaina forever!)
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By fonewear 2017-01-25 17:16:41
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Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Crazy theory time:

Star Wars is going full Avatar: the Last Airbender.

The Chosen One is a single entity as far as the Force goes, a reincarnated figure that's brought about for reasons periodically, but like Moorcock's Eternal Champion, while Balance is the goal, both sides, Light and Dark (instead of Law and Chaos, although maybe they're more or less the same thing), can sway the Chosen One either way.

Rey is a reincarnation of Anakin, who was himself a reincarnation of the previous Chosen One; Darth Plagueis either didn't create Anakin, or didn't create him whole cloth, but instead merely 'forced' a Chosen One to appear, perhaps out of his proper time, specifically to make him more easily sway-able by the dark side.

Anakin being an incarnation of the chosen one is the very reason he was able to force ghost immediately without previously knowing the method.

Rey being the reincarnation of Anakin is why she has force visions in connection to Anakin's lightsaber. It is his lightsaber, right? I've not actually seen the movie.

The reason Finn is able to fight with a lightsaber, and had a force awakening early in the movie (which Kylo Ren noticed), is because Anakin is not the Chosen one. Darth Plagueis forcing the incarnation of a chosen one was done while a chosen one was already incarnated: Mace Windu. This is likely the reason Anakin was so easily swayed by the dark side.

Since the Force, the Living Force, I think it's called, is more like Brahman, as I understand it, the specific incarnation of a Chosen One is more like the atman, a specific, temporary, separate existence of the Living Force, intended as an agent to affect a specific change.

Mace Windu, when killed by Anakin from his fall (despite Jedi being shown surviving considerable falls -- even relatively untrained ones), meant that the naturally occurring Chosen One's individual existence ceased, was returned to the Living Force, and that that potential individual's potential existence was 'freed up'.

Finn exists because Rey exists. Darth Plagueis reasons for creating Anakin are a matter of pure speculation (as is more or less everything I just typed), but it may be that he realized that having a single chosen one was actually detrimental overall; there are two sides to the force: the Light, and the Dark. Having such an important being capable of such great effects be perhaps more or less randomly dedicated to one side or another was not good for everyone in the long run.

Having two Chosen Ones, and the Chosen One was meant to bring balance would mean that one, whose incarnatability was forced by Plagueis, could be dedicated to the Dark, and the naturally occurring one, since the Chosen One is meant to bring Balance, would be forced towards the Light by the Living Force.

This would, in theory, result in a more constant, less chaotic 'balancing' of things.

It also means that eventually Rey will turn to the Dark Side. She's actually seen at more than one point, iirc, using specific moves that are only used by Palpatine. Given that we don't actually see a whole lot of Sith doing a whole lot of fighting, it is possible that those attacks were not the specific style of Palpatine alone; We see Darth Maul, Sidious, Tyranus, and Vader fight.

Maul fought using a double-ended Saber, which means he does not belong in our consideration of one-bladed saber users. Of the remaining three, Vader and Tyranus (iirc), were both originally trained by the Jedi, in Jedi techniques. Their introduction to Sith styles, if they were actually trained in them at all, would be after years, decades, for Tyranus, of fighting in a Jedi-specific style. Vader would, additionally, have a great deal of difficulty in fighting after the change from Anakin to Vader in the suit, due to the limited mobility of the suit, and the loss of so much of his actual body.

This means, of the three of the side-sided saber wielding Sith we see fight, that only Darth Sidious was fully and completely trained in light saber combat by a Sith Lord. It could well be that his style is simply one of many Sith styles, or the generic Sith style. If it's the generic style, that would account for Rey's seemingly entirely untrained use of similar fighting techniques to Sidious; her specific Chosen One-hoodness existance is a direct result of a Sith Lord manipulating the Living Force, something that, iirc, Sidious claimed Plagueis was capable of.

So, in a reversal of history, a Jedi, Anakin, trained by Kenobi, who became a Sith Lord, with be a reflection of Rey, a future Sith Lord, who was trained by Luke, a Jedi, who was also trained, like his father, by Kenobi. I doubt it's coincidence that Kenobi is the 'grandfather', in terms of training, of both Dark Side Chosen Ones.

I forget where the hell I was going with this. Oh well.

[edit]Altana, all those damn spelling and other errors.

Should put crazy theory time at the end so people will read the rest of the post ! Just a friendly reminder.
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By Asura.Echandra 2017-01-25 19:48:41
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As for crazy theory stuff the saber techniques all stem from 7 forms. There isn't a special sith style, just different levels of mastery. My two cents on force ghosts is the tie to the light side of things...the episode BS I take as qui-gon basically stumbled onto an old method, because looking at old republic things, there have been other force ghosts. Sith connections to the dark side prevent them from doing it, but there have been instanced of this...like Darth marr. It's just make up whatever sounds good!
 
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-01-25 20:07:07
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schizm2 said: »
Well, they did say they gave away hints on who Rey's father was but surprised people didn't think they knew.

One person gave their opinion and even Daisy said she was shocked when people said they didn't know.

She's a Kenobi, there's way too much similarities, and don't forget, Obi Wan took Anakins lightsaber and gave it to Luke which probably symbolizes when Rey is offering the same lightsaber to Luke once again.
Can't. Rylo Ken is about the same age as Rey, if not older, and Han and Leia most certainly did not hook it up until after RotJ. Kenobi has been long dead (6 years), and no amount of necrophilia will make Rey a Kenobi.

Unless somebody wants to entertain a Force ghost getting his thang on.
 
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-01-25 20:40:44
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schizm2 said: »
Doesn't have to be Obi-Wan's daughter.
It does have to be somebody in the movies though.

It can't be Obi-Wan's granddaughter or niece/grandniece, that would kill the connection Rey has with the main characters.

Spaceballs got this right back in 1987:



Everyone in the Star Wars universe of any consequence is either a Solo, Organa, Skywalker, or Kenobi. While Finn is supposed to be the next persona of Solo, Rey is obviously related to somebody.

Having her a granddaughter or anything other than daughter will just kill her backstory. Might as well make her a decedent of Jar-Jar.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-01-25 20:41:45
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Back on the Force ghost topic, for anyone wanting to nerd out, here's the Wookiepedia explanation, along with how Anakin got the ability to ghost it up:

Quote:
Qui-Gon Jinn was the first of the recent Jedi who rediscovered this secret with the assistance of a shaman of the Whills. Qui-Gon's spirit guided Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi and revealed to them the secret of retaining one's individuality after becoming one with the Force. Yoda during his exile taught it to another Jedi Master, Qu Rahn. The Dark Woman also learned of it at some point.

Death for those Jedi were different: their spirits could retain their individuality and could return as voices, dreams, or apparitions at will, so that they could help those in need of their guidance. On death, their bodies vanished; this was not the case with Qui-Gon, however.

This state was temporary, as Force ghosts were an intermediate state between life and afterlife; after a certain amount of time, they would then have to move on to the Netherworld of the Force, another realm of existence. Darth Vader learned of this ability through Darth Sidious, and upon his death, the spirits of Kenobi and Yoda completed his training by granting him the last step in becoming a spirit. Anakin's spirit appeared as that of his younger self, prior to his fall to the dark side.

And one more tidbit:

Quote:
It is explicitly stated in Champions of the Force and the Databank on the official site that the organic part of Anakin's body disappeared, and that Luke just burned his suit and mechanical parts for ritualistic purposes.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-01-25 20:50:41
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Champions of the Force
Ah, yes. The Jar-Jar of the EU.

I thought we weren't going to talk about that Ravael. Nobody needs to be reminded of the strongest wimp of the Sith, Exar Kun.

Although, the Sun Crusher is the most awesome weapon created in the EU.

/wants to blow up a solar system full of Star Wars alien rejects, then get sucked down it's only weakness: a black hole.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-01-25 20:51:47
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schizm2 said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
schizm2 said: »
Doesn't have to be Obi-Wan's daughter.
It does have to be somebody in the movies though.

It can't be Obi-Wan's granddaughter or niece/grandniece, that would kill the connection Rey has with the main characters.

If you really think of it, Kylo is Anakin's grandson, so I don't think it would be far fetched to have Rey as Obi Wan's granddaughter.

You just happen to know who Leia and Han is.

I do think if this is the case, it would be a nice set up for the anthology films after the Han Solo film to do a Obi Wan to fill in what happened while in exile.
Disney doesn't need to fill gaps of chronology with plot devices and Mickey Mouse.

That's what Sora is for!
 
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-01-25 20:54:11
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schizm2 said: »
On another note, what was Kylo trying to complete that Darth Vader was doing.
Creating the universe's first Asthmatic Space Barbershop Quartet!
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-01-26 09:32:13
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This is a pretty interesting take from WIRED on why the teaser logo for 'The Last Jedi' has red lettering.

Quote:
THERE HAS BEEN an awakening—have you felt it? It’s not the reveal of the new Star Wars movie title, Star Wars: The Last Jedi. It’s the internet’s excitement over the logo in the teaser. This time, it’s red, not yellow. And that could be a big deal.

It’s unclear whether the new color is for the teaser image only, or if it’ll actually appear in the movie’s opening titles. If it’s the latter, Episode VIII will be the first film in the Skywalker saga to forego the familiar yellow logo. (And just one year after Rogue One ditched the Star Wars title card altogether.) That would make it the franchise’s biggest break from its classic intro in four decades. You don’t make that kind of change haphazardly. Plus, even if it is just for teaser imagery, the color choice still sends a message to ardent fans.

Red is a significant color in Star Wars mythology. Sure, it was the identifier for Luke Skywalker’s X-Wing squadron in the original film, but the color’s overtones are typically insidious. It’s the color not only of many a Sith’s lightsaber, including Darth Vader’s and Darth Maul’s, but also the livery of the Imperial Guard from Return of the Jedi (arguably the most colorful costumes in the entire series to date). Even a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, red tends to signify danger—at least for the good guys.

Red’s menacing connotation applies to logos, as well. Lucasfilm has used red logos three times before: The official promotional logo for 1983’s Return of the Jedi (or, as it was first known, Revenge of the Jedi, as can be seen from the video below), and in the on-screen title cards for the 2012 Star Wars: The Clone Wars episodes “Brothers” and “Revenge.”

Two of these three uses traced the rise of villains. “Brothers” and “Revenge”, a two-episode arc from the fourth season of the animated Clone Wars series, tell the story of the return of Darth Maul, presumed dead after the events of Star Wars: Episode I—The Phantom Menace.

Obviously, that’s not true of Return of the Jedi, the happy ending of the original trilogy. Yet Jedi shares a thematic bond nonetheless, in that it’s a movie wherein good guys die. Return of the Jedi sees not only the death of Darth Vader (whose ghostly appearance at the film’s conclusion suggests he has somehow gone back to being a Jedi rather than Sith) but also the more peaceful demise of Yoda.

All of this might be clutching at color-coded straws, and have no significance for director Rian Johnson’s movie. But, taken together with that title (and assuming that Lucasfilm knows exactly what it’s doing by changing the color of a logo that fans know is supposed to be yellow), one thing becomes increasingly clear about the follow-up to The Force Awakens: It’s probably time to have a bad feeling about this.

We Have A Bad Feeling...
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By Shiva.Shruiken 2017-01-31 23:05:02
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-02-01 00:59:35
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Shiva.Shruiken said: »

Need to make the final one purple lettering to symbolize Windu.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-02-07 10:33:10
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Interesting read about The Last Jedi

Spoiler: It may change your perception of the story arc.
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By Carbuncle.Skulloneix 2017-02-07 10:58:31
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Edit: seems someone explained it. Woops on catching up to the topic.
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