Random Politics & Religion #18

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Random Politics & Religion #18
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-01-30 17:15:21
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Josiahkf said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Liberals really need to divorce themselves from the global progressive movement, it's not going to win them favors. Americans care more about having a solid economy and a secure nation then they do about being part of a worldwide class based movement to "fight for the not-so-little guy".
The problem is unhealthy American exclusionist propaganda trying to deny the state of the world and how much we all depend on each other, that's why Americans focus on fear instead of uniting, just like communist China.

This attitude is sustainable in 1817 or 1917 sure, but not any longer. And of course that's "what Americans care about;" that's what they are fed to want.

We don't live in an altruistic world. We all depend on each other to some extent, sure. That's why we have trade. That's why we have alliances. That doesn't for a second mean that we shouldn't protect ourselves from outside forces that mean to destroy us. That doesn't mean that we can't help outsiders in a way that doesn't endanger our own people. That doesn't mean that we should bow down before a collective of other nations and trust that they have our best interests in mind.
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By fonewear 2017-01-30 17:16:44
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What if Trump nominates a Muslim to the Supreme Court ! Oh the outrage !
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-01-30 17:21:44
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fonewear said: »
What if Trump nominates a Muslim to the Supreme Court ! Oh the outrage !

I didn't know Obama was on his list.

Yes, I'm kidding.
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By fonewear 2017-01-30 17:24:12
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I think Trump is a secret Muslim too just cause *tinfoil*
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By fonewear 2017-01-30 17:24:41
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Hell I might be a secret Muslim I don't know myself well enough to find out !
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-01-30 17:26:45
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fonewear said: »
Hell I might be a secret Muslim I don't know myself well enough to find out !

Time for you to "Study the World!" as Trump suggested.
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By fonewear 2017-01-30 17:28:40
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I do enjoy Middle Eastern food so that is about as "cultural" as I get !
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-01-30 17:30:35
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Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Josiahkf said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Liberals really need to divorce themselves from the global progressive movement, it's not going to win them favors. Americans care more about having a solid economy and a secure nation then they do about being part of a worldwide class based movement to "fight for the not-so-little guy".
The problem is unhealthy American exclusionist propaganda trying to deny the state of the world and how much we all depend on each other, that's why Americans focus on fear instead of uniting, just like communist China.

This attitude is sustainable in 1817 or 1917 sure, but not any longer. And of course that's "what Americans care about;" that's what they are fed to want.

We don't live in an altruistic world. We all depend on each other to some extent, sure. That's why we have trade. That's why we have alliances. That doesn't for a second mean that we shouldn't protect ourselves from outside forces that mean to destroy us. That doesn't mean that we can't help outsiders in a way that doesn't endanger our own people. That doesn't mean that we should bow down before a collective of other nations and trust that they have our best interests in mind.
this is exactly part of the problem Ravael; Look how you're programmed to view international co-operation and how you view it connotatively. Like a defeat or submission instead of progress towards a better world for everyone.

This mindset that's been instilled inside you is designed to encourage your exclusionist fears and behavior, to exploit you and stop free thinking.

To promote free-thinking, join the collective! Wait what....
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By fonewear 2017-01-30 17:31:29
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I stopped free thinking the moment I signed up on FFXIAH...about 20,000 posts later and I still haven't learned anything !
 
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-01-30 18:44:14
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Candlejack said: »
... someone like Caligula or Vlad Tepes, who murdered their own family members for political power....
I hate to mention this but murdering close reactivates for a crown or even a coronet, was dead common throughout history.

Caligula or Count Vlad were pikers compared to even lesser Borgias anyway.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-01-30 18:52:32
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Josiahkf said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Liberals really need to divorce themselves from the global progressive movement, it's not going to win them favors. Americans care more about having a solid economy and a secure nation then they do about being part of a worldwide class based movement to "fight for the not-so-little guy".
The problem is unhealthy American exclusionist propaganda trying to deny the state of the world and how much we all depend on each other, that's why Americans focus on fear instead of uniting, just like communist China.

This attitude is sustainable in 1817 or 1917 sure, but not any longer. And of course that's "what Americans care about;" that's what they are fed to want.

We don't live in an altruistic world. We all depend on each other to some extent, sure. That's why we have trade. That's why we have alliances. That doesn't for a second mean that we shouldn't protect ourselves from outside forces that mean to destroy us. That doesn't mean that we can't help outsiders in a way that doesn't endanger our own people. That doesn't mean that we should bow down before a collective of other nations and trust that they have our best interests in mind.

The really funny part is all those great European Socialist countries have far greater trade restrictions then we do. They have all sorts of non-tariff trade barriers designed to protect their domestic economy from foreign competition. They then get really pissed at the USA when it wants to do the same thing.

So basically "the world" wants to exploit the USA but doesn't want the USA exploiting them back. That is precisely why the USA needs to 100% do what's best for the USA, everyone else is secondary.

Just imagine the Italian government making a great speech

"I know this policy is really bad for Italians and it enables other countries to exploit Italian markets, but we're part of the world and we need to do our part to spread wealth to other nations. So I ask all you Italian voters to do your part in enabling those in Poland and Kazakhstan to live a better life"

Those *** would be voted out so fast we'd all be doing double takes.

Globalism is why you have Indian consultant companies going around recommending American companies replace their staff with lower paid H1B foreign workers brought in from India but only after having the American staff train their Indian replacements. That ***is scary to see happening and its' becoming more common. If the company can't get enough H1B slots then it recommends offshoring the majority of the department to a building in India where they do telecommuting with only a token stateside staff presence.

They got into so much hot water doing that stuff that they now have a policy of trying to hire one US worker for every half dozen or so Indian workers as a kind of "Token US Citizen" policy. I know this personally because they attempted to hire me for such a position and it was surreal doing the interview. Wanted to pay 100K to be a Linux/Unix Engineer on a team compromised almost entirely of Indian H1B workers. Yeah no thanks.

Anyhow American policy should always be 100% American interests first. Under no circumstance should the Democratically elected government intentionally pursue any policy or action that is not 100% in American's best interest. This is what every other nation in the world does before bitching that America isn't helping them enough.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-01-30 18:56:19
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
To promote free-thinking, join the collective! Wait what....


Welcome to Progressive thinking, formerly known as Communism. The only thing that matters is the group, individual desires are irrelevant if the corrupt leaders the group deems otherwise. You will serve the corrupt leaders the group and do as your instructed with politically acceptable ideas and speech. The further one goes down that mentality the scarier it gets.
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 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-01-30 19:11:50
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The amount of butt hurt people get when they're asked not to be inconsiderate *** is amazing.
 
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-01-30 19:20:12
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Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »
We are already seeing pollution from countries travelling over the oceans for example to other countries. We are one species stuck with one rock and working together using our intellect and ingenuity is how we survive, not our greed or fear.

It's not about communism vs capitalism, it's about having a mindset of equality towards our fellow man. Coming together to solve problems bigger than ourselves just like humanity has always done. Nations working together as adults, not kids at recess being petty.

It all starts with an individual's mindset, to their kids to their grandkids to their future political leaders.


Canadian hippie...



...gets it.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-01-30 19:49:44
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Candlejack said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Candlejack said: »
... someone like Caligula or Vlad Tepes, who murdered their own family members for political power....
I hate to mention this but murdering close reactivates for a crown or even a coronet, was dead common throughout history.

Caligula or Count Vlad were pikers compared to even lesser Borgias anyway.
True. All too true, but my point still stands. Throughout history, people usually hold up the last great tyrant that cropped up to use as a litmus test to see who fits the same mold. tRump fits the Hitler mold, sad but true.

Dang it, just as you were starting to make sense you turned the corner again. It's like those moments of lucidity that you see in Alzheimer's patients. There and gone again, all too soon.
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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2017-01-30 19:51:33
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Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »
We are already seeing pollution from countries travelling over the oceans for example to other countries.

We had pollution come from mainland Europe and our air quality that day in Stockholm was worse than Beijing
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-01-30 19:57:13
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Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »
We are already seeing pollution from countries travelling over the oceans for example to other countries. We are one species stuck with one rock and working together using our intellect and ingenuity is how we survive, not our greed or fear.

It's not about communism vs capitalism, it's about having a mindset of equality towards our fellow man. Coming together to solve problems bigger than ourselves just like humanity has always done. Nations working together as adults, not kids at recess being petty.

It all starts with an individual's mindset, to their kids to their grandkids to their future political leaders.

Look, my intent wasn't to rag on you earlier. I get where you're coming from, but it all sounds a little too idealistic for the pragmatist in me, particularly the bolded part. Every nation acts in its own self-interest, and most aren't even good at that. That isn't changing anytime soon, and while unity is obviously worth fighting for it's naive to role-play as if it has already happened. If you can't get your own people to be happy and sing Kumbaya with each other, you're going to have problems convincing other countries to.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-01-30 20:14:44
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
I still think Erdogan is currently leading in the Hitler race.
Well... there is Duarte and just for shits and grins...

Billionaire Republican donor Charles Koch likens Donald Trump's Muslim ban to Adolf Hitler's policies in Nazi Germany

Influential industrialist says travel restrictions 'wrong approach' for 'free and open societies'

The Independent, UK
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-01-30 20:17:57
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Candlejack said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Odin.Slore said: »
Yes they were Americans, but for the record what religion were they again?
We have been assured that this isn't a religious ban but rather based on country of origin.
And consider most from these countries are Muslims of some form or other and it does equate to a ban based on religion, with "countries of origin" being used as a red herring to cover up the blatant unconstitutionality of it.
Wait... religious minorities get preference.

So like Moslems and Jews from China?
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-01-30 20:26:34
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
I blame the American internet for being slower than in Denmark :(
Allowing competition is a good thing ^^
Fiber is nice
Indeed it is. I have fiber to my wall. But then again I have a PUD, its rather socialist, and somewhat cooperative rather like the country you moved to Kara.
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 Shiva.Shruiken
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By Shiva.Shruiken 2017-01-30 20:36:47
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now hes just gone too far >:(
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 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2017-01-30 21:22:19
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38805944

Quote:
Donald Trump has fired the acting US attorney general, after she questioned the legality of his immigration ban.

Sally Yates, who had been appointed under Barack Obama, earlier ordered justice department lawyers not to enforce the president's executive order.

In a statement, the White House said Ms Yates had "betrayed" the department.

Dana Boente, US attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, replaces her as acting attorney general.

Mr Trump's order temporarily banned nationals from seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the US, and sparked street protests in the US and abroad.

In a letter, Ms Yates had said she was "not convinced" that the president's order was lawful.

"As long as I am the acting attorney general, the department of justice will not present arguments in defence of the Executive Order," she said.

But the White House said she had "betrayed the department of justice by refusing to enforce a legal order designed to protect the citizens of the United States".

"President Trump relieved Ms Yates of her duties," a statement from the press secretary said.

Her replacement, Mr Boente, was also appointed by Barack Obama, in 2015. He was confirmed by the US Senate - making him eligible for appointment while Mr Trump waits for his own nominee to be approved.

Senator Jeff Sessions is awaiting a confirmation hearing for the role later this week.

Meanwhile, hundreds of diplomats and foreign servants have been drafting a "dissent cable" to formally criticise the president's executive order.

A draft version of the cable said that immigration restrictions will not make the US safer, are un-American and will send the wrong message to the Muslim world.

The ban bars citizens from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen.

The White House has consistently defended Mr Trump's executive order despite the controversy, with press secretary Sean Spicer saying diplomats should "get with the programme".

In addition, former President Barack Obama has apparently broken with the convention of former presidents avoiding comment on their successors.

Commenting on the protests about the immigration order, President Obama said he was "heartened".

"Citizens exercising their constitutional right to assemble, organise and have their voices heard by their elected officials is exactly what we expect to see when American values are at stake," he said in a statement, which did not mention Mr Trump by name.
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By Viciouss 2017-01-30 21:30:27
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Well what do you expect when you have Steve Bannon write up the order and not consult with lawyers, law enforcement, military officials, or anyone else infinitely more qualified. Of course it isn't going to hold up in court.
 Bahamut.Dannyl
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By Bahamut.Dannyl 2017-01-30 22:33:16
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in·sub·or·di·na·tion

defiance of authority; refusal to obey orders.
 Shiva.Shruiken
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By Shiva.Shruiken 2017-01-30 22:51:44
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The AG's obligation is to the law, not Trump's agenda. She was fired for dissent and for doing her job, not insubordination.

This sets a nasty precedent.
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