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Random Politics & Religion #18
 Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Kara 2017-01-30 14:23:23
[Url= http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article129472524.html#storylink=cpy]Veterans angry Trump refugee ban includes Iraq interpreters who risked their lives[/ufl]
Quote: Military veterans were dumbfounded and furious when it became clear over the weekend that President Donald Trump’s executive order barring the admission into the United States of people from seven majority-Muslim countries keeps out interpreters who’d risked their lives helping U.S. forces in Iraq.
“They better make a damn exception, because we are here because of them,” said Andrew Biggio, a former Marine sergeant who was deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. “Our lives, our families, we have everything to thank for our interpreters. We owe them, we owe them, we owe them.”
Kirk W. Johnson –
Author of To Be a Friend is Fatal
Founder of the List Project
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Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2017-01-30 14:24:17
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-01-30 14:24:18
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Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2017-01-30 14:27:35
Kara, it was taken prior to the protests, not prior to the order. I guess there are people that will change their mind because other people whine loud enough, but I guess we'll see. Quote: The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on January 25-26, 2017 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2017-01-30 14:29:15
To clarify, the poll was conducted before the EO was issued.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-01-30 14:30:19
On a similar note Quinnipiac has a poll showing more supporting than not supporting the order by 6%. Quote: A Quinnipiac University national poll conducted January 5 - 9 Doesn't account for the messy as *** implementation and horrible press the actual EO got.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-01-30 14:31:35
I blame the American internet for being slower than in Denmark :(
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 Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2017-01-30 14:32:15
Dislike: take it with a grain of salt.
Like: it destroys all other narratives.
Ok.
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Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-01-30 14:32:26
Kara, it was taken prior to the protests, not prior to the order. I guess there are people that will change their mind because other people whine loud enough, but I guess we'll see. Quote: The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on January 25-26, 2017 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.
Yep, just caught that myself. The wording is off on several sites. At any rate, it shows widespread support for the ban in theory, meaning that the only issue with the EO would be some inconvenient specifics, not the general feeling of the ban.
Where were you when Vic was doing just that? Oh right, he's on your side. My bad.
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2017-01-30 14:35:59
The questions the poll asked are not what the EO is.
It is why many veterans are passed because there are NO exemptions.
This has halted all refugees temporarily and Syrians for the foreseeable future.
Therected is also the whole constitutional crisis going on with CBP’S not complying with Federal court orders and not allowing Congressional members or lawyers into the detention areas.
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Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2017-01-30 14:40:08
I blame the American internet for being slower than in Denmark :( Allowing competition is a good thing ^^
Fiber is nice
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Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-01-30 14:40:23
But I guess this proves a point I was making earlier, which is that you can't even trust polling sites to accurately sum up their own freaking data.
From Rasmussen:
Quote: Most voters approve of President Trump’s temporary halt to refugees and visitors from several Middle Eastern and African countries until the government can do a better job of keeping out individuals who are terrorist threats.
This clearly suggests that the poll was taken with reference to Trump's actual order.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-01-30 14:41:42
Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »Are you legitimately surprised when protesting ends up educating the masses and changing their opinion or giving them much more to think about?
Given the protests lately, I'm surprised that there's any education at all.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
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Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2017-01-30 14:42:14
Yeah it would be...
Renzi really wanted to push a plan for a nationwide fiber coverage, but he's gone so..
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-01-30 14:45:36
I blame the American internet for being slower than in Denmark :( Allowing competition is a good thing ^^
Fiber is nice Well I have been a bit irregular lately
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Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
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Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2017-01-30 14:46:17
Well I have been a bit irregular lately There are pills for that.
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Phoenix.Sehachan
Server: Phoenix
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Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2017-01-30 14:51:00
Or yogurts, for a different kind of irregular.
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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Posts: 6949
By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2017-01-30 15:07:07
Dislike: take it with a grain of salt.
Like: it destroys all other narratives.
Ok.
Or
Dislike: A sampling of 120 million is not thorough enough to indicate popular opinion
Like: A sampling of 1000 is enough to indicate popular opinion.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-01-30 15:15:14
Dislike: take it with a grain of salt.
Like: it destroys all other narratives.
Ok.
Or
Dislike: A sampling of 120 million is not thorough enough to indicate popular opinion
Like: A sampling of 1000 is enough to indicate popular opinion.
Don't make me educate you on how sampling works. I just recently went over that.
By Zerowone 2017-01-30 15:23:07
Only if you promise not to go full Sav.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-01-30 15:27:43
If the 120 million refers to the number of votes in the election then it isn't a sample. It's a direct measure of the entire voting population. A sampling, like in polling, is what is used to indirectly estimate the population. (pedanticism off)
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Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-01-30 15:57:54
If the 120 million refers to the number of votes in the election then it isn't a sample. It's a direct measure of the entire voting population. A sampling, like in polling, is what is used to indirectly estimate the population. (pedanticism off)
There, Pleebo covered it.
The problem comes when people try to use one population (i.e. voters who turned out) to draw conclusions about a different population (i.e. the U.S. populace).
Popular votes ≠ Popular opinion
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Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-01-30 16:18:23
What it boils down to is that President Trump personally is unpopular, he's not a young charismatic not-white man "beating the system", but his policies / positions are popular. President Obama was personally very popular, but his policies / positions were very unpopular. Democrats wouldn't allow Obama to follow through on things he wanted to do, he eventually had to succumb to the Democrat agenda to get any form support. This fact is largely due to his inexperience and political naivete upon taking office. President Trump got elected on a platform of saying "*** you" to established politicians and the agenda's of both parties. That is wildly popular in a time where politicians are seen to do whatever they want with little to no concern for actual Americans. Trump also has the ability to get support when and where he wants it and the Republicans won't be able to do to him what the Democrats did to Obama.
So is Obama more popular then Trump? Most certainly, Obama is a very charismatic speaker and likable person while Trump sounds like a dufus (in comparison) and is famous for telling people "your fired". Are Trumps policies more popular then Obama's? Most certainly, Obama's policies were just a global progressive agenda forced into his hands by Democrat leadership that only cares about expanding their own power. Trumps policies are from listening to the concerns average Americans have expressed and talk about every day but are afraid to express them out of fear of social retaliation from the progressives.
That "wall", which is really just a symbol, is something Americans have wanted because it represents a secured border and controlled immigration rather then the free-for-all the Democrats favor. The cancellation of those trade deals, again things that Americans want because their tired of middle class jobs going overseas. The ban on refugees and travelers from countries identified as supporting or exporting radical Islam (words from Obama's own cabinet), again something average Americans want because the uncontrolled nature of our immigration (see the wall) and the unwillingness of the Democrats to enforce immigration controls (see sanctuary cities) makes those Americans feel unsafe about accepting all those people who have been personally exposed to radical Islam and could be bringing it with them.
Liberals really need to divorce themselves from the global progressive movement, it's not going to win them favors. Americans care more about having a solid economy and a secure nation then they do about being part of a worldwide class based movement to "fight for the not-so-little guy".
By fonewear 2017-01-30 16:48:48
Dislike: take it with a grain of salt.
Like: it destroys all other narratives.
Ok.
Or
Dislike: A sampling of 120 million is not thorough enough to indicate popular opinion
Like: A sampling of 1000 is enough to indicate popular opinion.
No one cares about popular opinions that is why we are all here !
By fonewear 2017-01-30 16:51:20
Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »Kara, it was taken prior to the protests, not prior to the order. I guess there are people that will change their mind because other people whine loud enough, but I guess we'll see.
Weren't you the one complaining about these polls to begin with?
I know the faults of polls, and I wouldn't take any one number to heart. It's just high enough that it destroys the narrative that this is some crazy order that the majority of Americans hate. On a similar note Quinnipiac has a poll showing more supporting than not supporting the order by 6%. Are you legitimately surprised when protesting ends up educating the masses and changing their opinion or giving them much more to think about?
This is the basics of democracy right here, regardless of how much you like to diminish or belittle the concept and just call it whining.
We don't live in a democracy...
By fonewear 2017-01-30 16:51:51
We vote for people to represent us so it's more of a representative republic.
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By fonewear 2017-01-30 16:53:47
So you could say Trump is doing what he was elected to do. Which is a novel concept I know !
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Server: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2017-01-30 17:11:25
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