RDM Is Coming To XIV.

Language: JP EN DE FR
2010-09-08
New Items
users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Red Mage » RDM is coming to XIV.
RDM is coming to XIV.
First Page 2
 Garuda.Chanti
Offline
Server: Garuda
Game: FFXI
user: Chanti
Posts: 8840
By Garuda.Chanti 2016-12-24 12:11:30
Link | Quote | Reply
 
https://streamable.com/25l4x
 Asura.Esoj
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 48
By Asura.Esoj 2016-12-24 12:29:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
o.O
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1578
By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2016-12-24 12:31:00
Link | Quote | Reply
 
If I hadn't heard such lackluster reviews for the actual gameplay, that would be enough to make me try it. Just the celebration flourish at the end of the battle is so good...
Forum Moderator
Offline
Server: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
user: AnnaMolly
Posts: 25776
By Anna Ruthven 2016-12-24 12:42:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
If I hadn't heard such lackluster reviews for the actual gameplay, that would be enough to make me try it. Just the celebration flourish at the end of the battle is so good...
It's about like other MMOs. FFXI was just kinda an oddball as an MMO and it worked...well, but it was kinda a one of a kind as far as gameplay goes. So if you're expecting something similar to FFXI gameplay wise, you probably won't find anything. I'm assuming that's what a lot of the bad reviews came from in the XI community.

You can't really compare the two because FFXI was so much different from any other MMO but you come from playing XI, especially if XI was your only MMO, and you're so used to XI's system that the usual just seems inferior by comparison.

Dunno, all I'd have to say is maybe try it when they have a free weekend.
[+]
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1578
By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2016-12-24 12:53:52
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fair point, but I'm not the typical MMOer, I'm a FF fanboy,so it's the unique gameplay of FFXI that makes me enjoy it. So I'd end up as one of those crotchety "back in my day" types likely.
[+]
 Asura.Ladyofhonor
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2392
By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2016-12-24 12:57:37
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Fair point, but I'm not the typical MMOer, I'm a FF fanboy,so it's the unique gameplay of FFXI that naked me enjoy it. Do I'd end up as one of those crotchety "back in my day" types likely.

No one playing FFXI in 2016 is a "typical MMOer".

But there are people who can enjoy what is now the standard MMO formula. And more people enjoy FFXIV than FFXI, so there has to be some merit to the system.

In the end, it's really more about personal preference than one system truly being "better". FFXIV is more polished though, so there's that. Really wish we could get a spiritual successor to FFXI with a new engine but same combat style.
[+]
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [30 days between previous and next post]
 Phoenix.Dragum
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: dragum
Posts: 6
By Phoenix.Dragum 2017-01-23 19:16:18
Link | Quote | Reply
 
It is going to be like when Heavensward came out. 3 new jobs. and they all sucked. Dark Knight in XIV still sucks. I know this cause I HAVE a 60 Dark Knight. Red Mage in XIV will be as bad as Machinist was when that came out. I can see many people complaining about it already.
 Phoenix.Terasan
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Terasan
Posts: 82
By Phoenix.Terasan 2017-01-23 20:13:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Dragum said: »
*Snip* Dark Knight in XIV still sucks. I know this cause I HAVE a 60 Dark Knight. *Snip*

Dark Knight is the main tank used in progression raiding, alongside a Warrior offtank. Pretty sure that means it's not bad.
[+]
Forum Moderator
Offline
Server: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
user: AnnaMolly
Posts: 25776
By Anna Ruthven 2017-01-23 20:13:59
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I have DRK 60 as well and yeah, it sucks but it sucks because I suck at it. None of the Heavensward jobs are easy, they are advanced, you have to put in extra work to make them worthwhile.
[+]
 Quetzalcoatl.Arthur
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 26
By Quetzalcoatl.Arthur 2017-01-23 23:07:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Yeah. I have absolutely no idea where DKR sucks is coming from...
In Raid content it's one of the two most desired tanks. Lvling up and casual content it's great. The only area where it doesn't shine well is in Ranked PVP, in frontlines and unranked feast it's a great choice.
Forum Moderator
Offline
Server: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
user: AnnaMolly
Posts: 25776
By Anna Ruthven 2017-01-23 23:12:38
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I really need to learn DRK, it's arguably the hardest tank job to master and it was my first foray into tanking coming from healing and ranged DPS. So that's where I am.

My problem is mostly pulling in dungeons and stuff. It seems like as a tank, you need to know everything about the run.
 Asura.Hitome
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 35
By Asura.Hitome 2017-01-25 14:01:19
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I'm pretty sure DRK and MCH found uses in progression raiding when Heavensward was released. DRK and WAR, as mentioned above, were the go-to tanks and MCH replaced BRD in some situations.

AST, on the other hand, objectively sucked and was behind SCH and WHM in terms of healing for quite a while after Heavensward was released.
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [138 days between previous and next post]
 Phoenix.Dragum
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: dragum
Posts: 6
By Phoenix.Dragum 2017-06-12 23:17:09
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Terasan said: »
Dark Knight is the main tank
Please. It could never take hits for anything. I know this cause I AM a 60 Dark Knight. plus you got it backwards. it was Warrior MT + Dark Knight OT.... Just saying.
 Phoenix.Dragum
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: dragum
Posts: 6
By Phoenix.Dragum 2017-06-12 23:18:51
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Arthur said: »
I have absolutely no idea where DKR sucks is coming from...

Pretty much when DRK was released it was bad. PLD was a lot better when 3.0 first launched. But SE fixed it due to people complaining.
I seen the way it plays. its only good for doing damage.
 Asura.Jackflashh
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Kido
Posts: 26
By Asura.Jackflashh 2017-06-13 02:33:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Dragum said: »
Phoenix.Terasan said: »
Dark Knight is the main tank
Please. It could never take hits for anything. I know this cause I AM a 60 Dark Knight. plus you got it backwards. it was Warrior MT + Dark Knight OT.... Just saying.


This is just plain not true lol. Drk is absolutely the MT of choice for top end raid groups. It contributes roughly 5-10% more DPS than Pld when min/maxing, and War has been the best OT since like 2.1, especially since 3.0 and the introduction of Fell Cleave. The only reason Pld is still in the conversation is b/c Drk is much more complex and harder to actually maximize dps. An average Pld is much better than an average Drk, but a great Drk will stomp a great Pld. It's simple math. Mitigation is irrelevant, both tanks have comparable abilities.
[+]
 Asura.Vyre
Forum Moderator
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Vyrerus
Posts: 13700
By Asura.Vyre 2017-06-13 02:42:09
Link | Quote | Reply
 
DRK is wonderfully strong, and currently, it can only maximize its DPS by main tanking, due to having two DPS procs that come from parrying lol. A good DRK will sometimes beat their OT WAR on the parse, especially if the group feeds their DRK with the meta pull strat(which is going away come Stormblood).
[+]
 Asura.Delmania
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Delmania
Posts: 16
By Asura.Delmania 2017-06-13 06:56:24
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Dragum said: »
Please. It could never take hits for anything. I know this cause I AM a 60 Dark Knight. plus you got it backwards. it was Warrior MT + Dark Knight OT.... Just saying.

You have a 60 dark knight, but that doesn't mean you know how to play it. DRK is different than PLD or WAR because it relies heavily on cooldowns. Just on trash mobs you have to alternate using Shadow Skin and Blood Price. Boss fights are more complex.
 Asura.Ina
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Inasura
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2017-06-13 06:57:08
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Jackflashh said: »
Mitigation is irrelevant, both tanks have comparable abilities.
This is actually not true, with how common they made magical tank busters drk curb stomps pld in regards to mitigation as often as them being equal.

Phoenix.Dragum said: »
Pretty much when DRK was released it was bad. PLD was a lot better when 3.0 first launched. But SE fixed it due to people complaining.
I seen the way it plays. its only good for doing damage.
Not sure if trolling or delusional... Pld was not even remotely competitive with dark knight when heavensward was released. Not only did pld do significantly less damage but the majority of heavy hits through gordias were magic based which left pld with very limited options for mitigation to the extent where I've often see people ask how plds manage certain fights. The answer to that question is they didn't/don't, they relied on other party members mitigation (which drk would have benefited even more from) and healers cure bombing them instead of spending their gcds on damage. They've since buffed plds damage a little bit but there still exist fights where approaching it from a "whats best" stand point means a pld has no business being there.

You could work with a pld don't get me wrong, but it was a detriment to the group in most cases.
 Bahamut.Samunai
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Samunai
Posts: 190
By Bahamut.Samunai 2017-06-13 07:11:55
Link | Quote | Reply
 
is it me or can i find it funny that this thread started about RDM and is now going on about DRK for while xD?


3 more days for rdm!
[+]
 Asura.Ina
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Inasura
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2017-06-13 07:27:55
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Your right sorry, I was distracted by too much wrong on the internet : (

On topic

Ready for rdm. What they showed on the medea tour made rdm look fairly strong though potencies might have shifted a bit. General complaints people made was it doesn't have as many high potency hits as blm and smn, however it's lowest potency GCD is a 240 (compared to 150 and 100 on blm and smn) which helps bring them up a bunch. They also had them with a 420 potency off GCD on a 25 second recast which is huge. Embolden is potentially pretty great too though when is best to use it might vary based on party set up due to the effect degrading.

The biggest concern for rdm is it lacks for mp recovery unlike smn or blm (who just doesn't care about mp) so it could see issues in longer fights that have no down time.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 2291
By eliroo 2017-06-13 07:51:34
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Dragum said: »
Pretty much when DRK was released it was bad. PLD was a lot better when 3.0 first launched. But SE fixed it due to people complaining.
I seen the way it plays. its only good for doing damage.

WAR is the best damage tank currently. Well WAR is the best all around. If it wasn't for FFlogs and Limit break gauge I'm sure we would see double WAR more often. DRK on the other hand is superb at taking magic damage and is also vastly superior to PLD in virtually every way. Definitely isn't as strong as WAR but there was no reason to bring a PLD in HW post the initial DRK buffs.

On that not, the DRK buffs were very minimal at first, it just took a lot of people to realize how good they were and how bad PLD was.


Anyways:

Quote:
Ready for rdm.

People running the spreadsheets seem to think that BLM/RDM/SMN will all be relatively close with BLM edging out over the two just slightly. RDM has a lot of potency on each of their abilities but they lack any damage over time meaning what you see is pretty much what you get.

I also think the mana will be a non-issue. If anything they just can't use the mana transfer cross class lol. With a BRD or MCH Mana upkeep should be a cinch.
 Valefor.Prothescar
Guide Master
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16199
By Valefor.Prothescar 2017-06-13 07:56:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Dragum said: »
Phoenix.Terasan said: »
Dark Knight is the main tank
Please. It could never take hits for anything. I know this cause I AM a 60 Dark Knight. plus you got it backwards. it was Warrior MT + Dark Knight OT.... Just saying.

are you sure you don't just suck ***
Offline
Posts: 1495
By geigei 2017-06-13 08:03:15
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Derailed a thread which doesn't belong here anyway, you people have nothing better to do?
Offline
Posts: 2291
By eliroo 2017-06-13 08:10:35
Link | Quote | Reply
 
It's the thread police!

Everyone hide!
 Asura.Saevel
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7150
By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-13 08:22:53
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Jackflashh said: »
Phoenix.Dragum said: »
Phoenix.Terasan said: »
Dark Knight is the main tank
Please. It could never take hits for anything. I know this cause I AM a 60 Dark Knight. plus you got it backwards. it was Warrior MT + Dark Knight OT.... Just saying.


This is just plain not true lol. Drk is absolutely the MT of choice for top end raid groups. It contributes roughly 5-10% more DPS than Pld when min/maxing, and War has been the best OT since like 2.1, especially since 3.0 and the introduction of Fell Cleave. The only reason Pld is still in the conversation is b/c Drk is much more complex and harder to actually maximize dps. An average Pld is much better than an average Drk, but a great Drk will stomp a great Pld. It's simple math. Mitigation is irrelevant, both tanks have comparable abilities.

I have no idea what drugs that dude is on. DRK/PLD as MT, WAR as OT. WAR can do MT but it only really shines when it can switch back and forth between it's modes.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 2291
By eliroo 2017-06-13 08:28:29
Link | Quote | Reply
 
The guy probably thinks that in 3.x people tanked with their tank stances on.
 Asura.Vyre
Forum Moderator
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Vyrerus
Posts: 13700
By Asura.Vyre 2017-06-13 15:28:08
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I guess we could curb the tank talk a little, not that it matters much.

RDM gonna be great. From what I saw the MP costs for pretty much everything are low, and then you get at least enough to offset the cost of one spell back when you close in for your 3 suped up Melee skills. And I guess that's another thing; even if RDM in XIV runs out of MP, it can close in and start using the sword skills unbuffed. Not ideal, but you technically can keep up the assault for a little longer. They made all its melees cost like 100 TP though, which is absurd, but I guess it's just SE erring on the side of caution since they did give it a cure that works and a raise as well. Not too mention that dualcast trait that makes every other cast instant. Bring a Max Ether, pop Lucid Dreaming, raise 5 people in the time it takes to raise 2 etc. Heck, depending on how hard bosses can hit, you could potentially win fights with the healers dead, if the RDM has enough MP to spare and raid wides aren't prevalent. It looks delicious.
 Sylph.Cherche
Offline
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
By Sylph.Cherche 2017-06-13 15:50:29
Link | Quote | Reply
 
According to Yoshi P in an interview, they can in dungeons, at the very least.
 Asura.Ina
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Inasura
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2017-06-14 11:09:20
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Vyre said: »
And I guess that's another thing; even if RDM in XIV runs out of MP, it can close in and start using the sword skills unbuffed. Not ideal, but you technically can keep up the assault for a little longer.
You would need to plan ahead for that, unbuffed the full combo is 510 potency while buffed 970, and you have to have all 3 WS buffed to do flare/holy for the 550. So like when you have 80 of each mana and see your running low do the buffed combo > flare/holy > unbuffed combo. In the live letter the auto attacked something and it only did I think 80 damage so I think those still scale off str

100TP per WS is perfectly fine tbh. Your strongest WS unbuffed is weaker than jolt 2 and for AoE likewise your melee AoE is weaker than scatter unbuffed so no situation exists where you'd need more than 600 outside of silence traps in PotD if you don't have echos.

This is of course going off the media tour potency which will probably change a bit. The trickiest part I think will be figuring out where the best time to use embolden is from a group stand point, since the buff decays with time you'll want to make sure as many heavy hits go out at the start of it instead of just making sure they happen sometime over the duration like trick attack/battle lit etc
Offline
Posts: 2291
By eliroo 2017-06-14 14:30:40
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Asura.Ina said: »
This is of course going off the media tour potency which will probably change a bit. The trickiest part I think will be figuring out where the best time to use embolden is from a group stand point, since the buff decays with time you'll want to make sure as many heavy hits go out at the start of it instead of just making sure they happen sometime over the duration like trick attack/battle lit etc

This is a problem that I have in general with how fast or slow some jobs ramp up given the 4.0 data we have. Mages seem to have an incredibly slow "peak" ramp while melees still maintain relative speed when it comes to ramping. This inconsistency will make hybrid parties harder to build.
First Page 2
Log in to post.