Random Politics & Religion #14

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2010-09-08
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Random Politics & Religion #14
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By fonewear 2016-11-04 09:01:10
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That is nothing I can delete e-mails with the best of them. I set up an e-mail deleting account to delete them as they come in !
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By Ramyrez 2016-11-04 09:07:05
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
We need another full year of this stupid election!

Damn.

Every time I think I know just how evil you are, you up and out with something like this.

Calm down, Satan.
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By fonewear 2016-11-04 09:08:48
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Expect there to be a recount and Florida being involved !
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By Ramyrez 2016-11-04 09:08:56
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fonewear said: »
That is nothing I can delete e-mails with the best of them. I set up an e-mail deleting account to delete them as they come in !

I need to hire Hillary's people to keep track of my free e-mail accounts. Everyone acts like deleting e-mails is a bad thing, meanwhile if someone wants to save me the time of picking out the 5 e-mails I need out of the 500 I don't and then ditching the 500...
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By fonewear 2016-11-04 09:11:24
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Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
That is nothing I can delete e-mails with the best of them. I set up an e-mail deleting account to delete them as they come in !

I need to hire Hillary's people to keep track of my free e-mail accounts. Everyone acts like deleting e-mails is a bad thing, meanwhile if someone wants to save me the time of picking out the 5 e-mails I need out of the 500 I don't and then ditching the 500...

You need an intern:

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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-11-04 09:14:42
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fonewear said: »
That is nothing I can delete e-mails with the best of them. I set up an e-mail deleting account to delete them as they come in !

do you work for the government!?
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By fonewear 2016-11-04 09:18:40
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
fonewear said: »
That is nothing I can delete e-mails with the best of them. I set up an e-mail deleting account to delete them as they come in !

do you work for the government!?

I wish the only government job I'd be qualified for is diversity chief...but I'm too white for that !
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-11-04 09:21:29
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fonewear said: »
the only government job I'd be qualified for...

there's like... thirty million gubberment jerbs in the USA...one of them has to be finding funny simpson videos and pictures..
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-11-04 09:33:46
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don't vote for hillary... just let it happen...

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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-11-04 09:40:13
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
fonewear said: »
the only government job I'd be qualified for...

there's like... thirty million gubberment jerbs in the USA...one of them has to be finding funny simpson videos and pictures..

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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-11-04 09:41:31
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Polls are getting weird. Trump is now winning in New Hampshire, giving him a much-needed blue state to hit 270... but he's also now down in Florida, which would obviously screw him over if he lost it.

This is the best day for a November surprise, too. Where are the crazy stories?!?
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-11-04 09:45:31
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On a side note, even though this is only mildly related to politics:

Smoking Wreaks Genetic Havoc on Lungs, Study Warns

BREAKING: STUDY REVEALS FINDING EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS, PRETENDS IT'S NEW INFORMATION
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-11-04 09:52:00
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Polls are getting weird. Trump is now winning in New Hampshire, giving him a much-needed blue state to hit 270... but he's also now down in Florida, which would obviously screw him over if he lost it.

This is the best day for a November surprise, too. Where are the crazy stories?!?

It's been weird and it will probably stay that way. Polls haven't been very accurate recently for populist movements (Brexit, FARC etc)

The bad/good news is there is no telling what will happen on tuesday.
The good/bad news is that no matter who wins, things will get worse.

Prepare yourself for four years of stonewalling and congressional hearings...
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By eliroo 2016-11-04 10:09:58
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Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
That is nothing I can delete e-mails with the best of them. I set up an e-mail deleting account to delete them as they come in !

I need to hire Hillary's people to keep track of my free e-mail accounts. Everyone acts like deleting e-mails is a bad thing, meanwhile if someone wants to save me the time of picking out the 5 e-mails I need out of the 500 I don't and then ditching the 500...

Well if you are under investigation because of how you used your email account that would probably be bad idea =P.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-11-04 10:24:44
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The constitutional bit behind the British high court ruling.

The legal questions at the heart of the High Court Article 50 ruling
BBC
And remember the Brits do not have a written Constitution like we do. Theirs is all laws and precedents. I mean Magna Carta like stuff.

Quote:
The ramifications might be seismic, but the question at issue in this momentous legal dispute could not have been clearer.

The Lord Chief Justice Lord Thomas put it in this way: "The sole question in this case is whether, as a matter of the constitutional law of the United Kingdom, the Crown - acting through the executive government of the day - is entitled to use its prerogative powers to give notice under Article 50 for the United Kingdom to cease to be a member of the European Union."

He stressed that it was a "pure question of law" with "no bearing" on the merits of the UK withdrawing from the EU.

Many of today's papers took issue with that.

In beginning his judgment, Lord Thomas firmly asserts the critical importance in our law of the sovereignty of parliament: "The most fundamental rule of UK constitutional law is that the Crown in Parliament is sovereign and that legislation enacted by the Crown with the consent of both Houses of Parliament is supreme."

He quotes a predecessor, Lord Bingham, who said: "The bedrock of the British constitution is... the supremacy of the Crown in Parliament."
Kings and queens

He then turns to the Crown's prerogative powers.

These are a collection of executive powers derived from the Crown from medieval times.

Once exercised by all-powerful kings and queens, they have been dramatically reduced over centuries and the residue are now vested in the hands of ministers.

Exercising them is controversial because they have the effect of by-passing our "supreme" Parliament.

Lord Thomas says: "An important aspect of the fundamental principle of Parliamentary sovereignty is that primary legislation is not subject to displacement by the Crown through the exercise of its prerogative powers."

So, prerogative powers are strictly limited and in the relationship between them and Parliament it is Parliament that very firmly has the upper hand, because, "This subordination of the Crown [ie the executive government] to law is the foundation of the rule of law in the United Kingdom", he says.

In other words, Parliament is king - top dog of the constitution.

The government cannot use executive powers to override legislation. Only legislation can override legislation.

That, in essence, was the argument of the Gina Miller, the investment manager who was the lead claimant in the case.

So when can ministers use prerogative powers?

It is agreed and part of our law that they can be used in international relations and the making and unmaking of international treaties.

That is permissible because generally exercising these powers in this arena has no effect on domestic law, so there is no collision with parliamentary legislation, and parliamentary sovereignty is not affected.

The government argued that using prerogative powers to trigger Article 50 was a "classic exercise of the royal prerogative", and that if Parliament had not wanted it used it would have said so in the 2015 European Union Referendum Act.
Rights enjoyed

Where the government came a cropper is that it fully accepted that triggering Article 50 by using prerogative powers would have the effect of changing domestic law.

By enacting the 1972 European Communities Act (the 1972 Act), which took the UK into what was then the European Economic Community, now the EU, Parliament made EU law part of our law.

Rights enjoyed by you and me were written into our law via the 1972 Act.

However, the government argued that Parliament must have intended that ministers would keep the prerogative power to withdraw from EU treaties and so would continue to have the power to choose whether EU law - including the rights given to us under it - should continue to have effect in domestic law.

Gina Miller's lawyers argued that once Article 50 is triggered some rights, such as the right to vote in EU elections and to petition the European Court of Justice, would be extinguished forever.

They claimed that it was not enough for the government to assert that many rights would be restored later in the Great Repeal Bill.

The court categorically disagreed with the government.

Lord Thomas concluded that, "Parliament intended EU rights to have effect in domestic law and that this effect should not be capable of being undone or overridden by action taken by the Crown in exercise of its prerogative powers."

Slam dunk!

"The Crown cannot, through the exercise of its prerogative powers, alter the domestic law of the United Kingdom and modify rights acquired in domestic law under the ECA 1972 or the other legal effects of that Act.

"We agree with the claimants that, on this further basis, the Crown cannot give notice under Article 50(2)."

Slam, slam, dunk, dunk.

The judgment did not go on to say specifically that an act of Parliament is needed to give ministers the authority to trigger Article 50.

The judges were understandably keen to keep some constitutional distance and not be seen to be telling Parliament precisely how to exercise its sovereignty.

However, it is almost impossible to see how Parliament could give its authority to ministers to serve notice under Article 50 without full-blown primary legislation, ie an act of Parliament.
Massive political consequences

What is now an epic legal battle reveals arguably the great constitutional clash of our time.

A government used to getting its way has been stopped in its tracks by independent judges, unelected and who some regard as unaccountable, but who through the mechanism of judicial review can defy ministers, if what they are proposing is unlawful.

The judges may have been deciding a purely legal point, but it is a legal point with massive political consequences.

These tectonic plates of our constitution will grind up against each other again next month when the government appeals to the Supreme Court.

For the first time ever, all 11 permanent justices, including those from Northern Ireland and Scotland, are likely to sit - underlining the importance of what is at stake.

If the High Court's ruling is overturned, the government's problems in triggering Article 50 probably disappear.

If it is upheld and the government is forced to bring in an act of Parliament to give it the authority to trigger our withdrawal from the EU, the timing and manner of Brexit is thrown into confusion.

There is an intriguing further option.

Both sides could theoretically appeal to the European Court of Justice, the EU's Supreme Court.

But asking that court to adjudicate on the limits of British parliamentary sovereignty and how we depart the EU would be so drenched in irony it would be almost unthinkable.

That is why, for its part, the government has already ruled it out.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-11-04 10:26:50
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
The constitutional bit behind the British high court ruling.

I stubbornly refuse to read that much on a friday!
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-11-04 10:45:48
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
fonewear said: »
If Hillary loses she will blame those damn white males that have been up to no good lately !

she'll blame james comey and he will meet the same fate as ron brown

and Mike Barnicle... The guy who asked Gary Johnson what he would do about Aleppo and sent his campaign into a fiery tailspin into the desert of hopelessness...

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By fonewear 2016-11-04 10:58:57
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
The constitutional bit behind the British high court ruling.

I stubbornly refuse to read that much on a friday!

I'm getting to the point where I'm too lazy to listen to audio books !
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By fonewear 2016-11-04 11:02:27
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I'll summarize this so FFXIAH people can understand it:

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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-11-04 11:04:01
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fonewear said: »
I'm too lazy to listen to audio books

last one I listened too was DaVinci Code and it was kinda weird hearing paul michael doing the voice of sophie...
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By fonewear 2016-11-04 11:04:01
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I don't have time to figure out how to properly quote and spoil a long article about the British Magna Carta I tells ya !
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By fonewear 2016-11-04 11:07:06
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On audio books:

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By Ramyrez 2016-11-04 11:09:27
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
don't vote for hillary... just let it happen...

So rapey.

This should actually have been the Donald's campaign slogan. It fits him better.

"Donald Trump: Don't fight it, baby...just let it happen..."
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By fonewear 2016-11-04 11:10:54
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No Trump would be more like this: I just lay down and let the man do whatever he wants to me !
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By Ramyrez 2016-11-04 11:11:24
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fonewear said: »
No Trump would be more like this: I just lay down and let the man do whatever he wants to me !

Mmm. Maybe more accurate, but less catchy.
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By Ramyrez 2016-11-04 11:11:48
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"Donald Trump: Don't struggle, it'll hurt less."
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By fonewear 2016-11-04 11:15:51
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Time for a musical interlude:

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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-11-04 11:16:40
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
and Mike Barnicle... The guy who asked Gary Johnson what he would do about Aleppo and sent his campaign into a fiery tailspin into the desert of hopelessness...
What's a "leppo"?
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By fonewear 2016-11-04 11:18:29
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Let the cringe begin !

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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-11-04 11:28:55
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
and Mike Barnicle... The guy who asked Gary Johnson what he would do about Aleppo and sent his campaign into a fiery tailspin into the desert of hopelessness...
What's a "leppo"?

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