The Black Sacrament -- A Guide To Black Mage

Pretty much, along with the fact its nukes arent that far away from BLM that the above 2 notes dont more than compensate, and its got its share of utility from its light arts while keeping most of the utility blm has albeit these all take charges

I mean you should be 75% of the damage no matter what tbh. The ea even nq is nice to have for faster kills and more consistent damage. The parrot comment is no different than you saying you dont need ea to be good on this fight when it took 4 attempts. Outside of that really the work is on the getting RUN JA back up and keeping run and cor making SC.

Edit: Just so you dont think im hating on you the math you spent an extra 10 mil to kill slower than NQ EA which is what people myself included have said works better. Ea on your server for hat body legs is 5.9mil. (Thats only me counting the shards and void items not the craft mats to upgrade the relic).

SCH is just extra damage and making SC if cor and run having trouble also the helix damage is nice to have. That also the fight requires little healing so whm wouldn't be useful.

Every person I've talked to stated you needed Ea+1. Melphina's post earlier in the thread would also lead a person to believe it's damn near impossible without it. Hence my focus on stating otherwise.

It took 4 attempts altogether. 1 attempt, we got *** when we gathered in for RD or WC (I forget which). I was a little shy about nuking outside the MB window on the first attempt. After the third, we adjusted some support. We won on the fourth. Insinuating it's my lack of Ea and not execution is ridiculous. My set didn't change at all.

EDIT from later in the day: Not that it matters, but the RUN eating dirt around 20% HP on the 3rd attempt due to some bad luck ended the third attempt. After that fight, we discussed GEO spells and made a tweak to what we used in the OP.

How many Rayke/Gambit resets did your RUN get during the fight? If you pull off 4-5 R/D usages, you're very correct that absolute top notch gear isn't needed.

Did your GEO nuke during those Rayke/Gambit windows? And if so, what was their set like?

Most of the BLMs doing this fight and using Ea+1 are parsing around 82-88% of the damage by the way. You've got a very solid group, and I would wager got very solid Random Deal resets allowing for 4+ Rayke/Gambit usages, which completely changes the dynamic of the fight.

Also, like JTT I'm not trying to ***on you. We're simply trying to point out that if you don't have many of the things you try to play off as unnecessary, you rely on luck and damage from other members more than you "have to". Not to mention you're opening the door for people to see your testimonial, which isn't a complete picture, rushing in when they get shitty luck on Random Deal resets or a SCH without a top tier Helix set to *** and whine about the fight. We're just trying to reduce the luck factor, and make sure that in one of the few times others need a BLM, people show up on that BLM ready to mean business.

I agree with Celebrindal. There is some luck involved with the fight, and the rest of your group also plays a role. Random deal hitting the correct abilities, wild card resetting 1 hour's, the scholar's helix set etc.. it all matters. But I remember vividly how my own group's first clear went. I originally had a set similar to what Foxmulder posted, and we could only come close to winning. We fought him about ten times and always timed out at 15-30%. The one time we won was the fight I splurged and upgraded to the set I posted earlier. We had good luck with resets, but the point is that the blm's role is the most important and gear does matter. When we won we had nearly 3 minutes left, so the kill speed was notably faster in the run we killed him. The upgrades definitely showed.

I can give another example because I recently tackled Ongo again to help a friend who was doing it for her first time. She had formed her own group and asked me to join on corsair. The black mage in our group was geared very similar to what you had..... Lathi, merlinic, and some artifact +3. On our first attempt that black mage fared so poorly that Ongo never even got his 1 hour off in the entire fight. In 15 minutes we didn't even take him below 80%. After that the leader kicked the black mage, had me change to blm, and shouted for a corsair. With just that change we took ongo down to 20% on the next attempt. It was a partial shout group and everyone but me was a first timer at veng 15, but that shows just how important the BLM is in the fight.

The blm hard carries V 15 Ongo, so it's important for them to be as ready as they can be. BiS everything isn't mandatory, but it sure as hell helps lessen the blow when all the other factors don't align perfectly. A good group is just as important, but the amount of reliance you have on perfect luck in the random factors goes down substantially when the blm is geared as best they can be.

I'll chime in here and say that the scholar helix is extremely important (2) 10,000 damage full duration helix, will bring off 40% of the the health.

My group would run this as the third NM in a rotation, so it would be

RUN+SCH we would just do 2 helix on it and let the run tank it and tic down. with 2 full unresisted helix it would tic down to 60% with just the RUN swinging on it and everyone else on garbage jobs

In case anyone hasn't seen it before, here's a video of clearing Ongo V15 in about 4 minutes.

Huge thing about Ongo is Magic accuracy too. BRD landing SV Threnody for around -400 Earth magic evasion is super huge. This one debuff alone is stronger than many other -meva debuufs combined. I use NITRO for it, so it stays for several minutes, then use another NITRO with Marcato, that lasts until it's dead. We even killed Ongo with Magic Accuracy down aura (probably the worst Aura you can get, usually it kills the run), when Threnody was up.

Anyone know what they're doing with their TP- macro?

It is setting their TP to 2990, from 3k so that AM2 on Laevateinn activates at 2990/50-10 = 49~

Which is really neat, but I dunno how you specifically lose 10tp.

Chrys. Torque

Frankly those people are just wrong.
Very few things if anything you do with a group in this game is just one person needing top stuff.

Its all about the group and what each person can bring to the table. Would Ea+1 make it easier then using NQ or other gear? Sure, but its not some magic thing that will allow you to win or you loose without.

This hit it right on the head sorry I didnt type this part out I was super tired and im on vacation so yea. Its all about the luck ive beaten this fight with 2 or 3 rayke/gambits which in my eyes is still high. Spreading misinformation is whats wrong with alot of the strats made up in this game. Like the Mboze strats for starters. All in all good job on kill but try give full story of what you guys did. Like cele said most blms are parsing 80% of more for this fight so 75% isnt that amazing not bad but not amazing.

Also how you took nothing from my post beside stuff blows my mind and its why so many people chimed in. Spreading misinformation and not knowing why you won beside you thinking your gear was perfectly fine is what people wanna avoid happen. Insinuating that you carried the group without anyone else doing everyone perfectly and luck is ridiculous.

There's tons of dated/misguided information on the forum, especially about things like Ongo. It took people weeks/months to decide whether it was 75% or 95% geomancy resist. It took a similar amount of time for people to realize you can use the mythic and don't need some high INT staff for dInt purposes. I don't see anyone responding to your post mentioning how to get Burn to land (use BLM's sp2, preferably with relic legs/feet and merits. sp2 also gives you a nice dps window to blast under.)

I feel bad for groups that are treating some of these early posts as the basis for their strategy, and do appreciate the desire to 'prove them wrong,' in a way. In general you'd be best tracking down someone who mains your job, or a group that has the content on farm, and just discussing strategy with them. Not everybody is going to post their success and failure stories on the forums.

I feel like a good portion of you guys didn't read my OP or did so with some weird take on it. Thanks to those who acknowledged my point and maybe added something sensible to it.

Accusing me of spreading misinformation is a *** joke. Again, ever since I started up Odyssey, I was fed "YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE EA+1 OR THE GROUP FAILS" for every Odyssey NM that most groups use a magic strategy for, including the T2s and especially Ongo. You cannot refute the fact that my group cleared it with a BLM that didn't have a single piece of it.

I didn't set out to prove my lackluster set is better, faster, capable of carrying a buyer, or whatever magical qualifier some of you seemingly are attaching to it. I was simply providing a testimonial that it absolutely is NOT a requirement.

This is useful information for statics or linkshells that don't have a decked out BLM to use to clear Ongo V15. If they setup a sensible set, it is possible. Ea+1 and perfect augments isn't a requirement.

Quoting my OP:

That was the entire point of the post. Try reading it. See how I acknowledge it's a group effort. Everyone has to execute and, sure, ***luck on aura or someone fudging something up will screw you.

k.

I was quickly posting a response while waiting for my car to warm up before heading out the door. Apologize for the brevity, but I was underlining the intention of my post.


Nope


I'm well aware of what the entire group was contributing. Try re-reading my original post again.


Never did I insinuate or imply such a thing.

Having now beat Ongo with only 5 people fighting (RUN BLM SCH COR RNG) it as part of a triple NM run where we didn't even intend to kill it I'd like to chime in on a few points.

1. In case you missed that JP video of 4min kill one of the big take aways is make longer multi-step SCs to burst off of this makes a him much much easier.

2. If the fight lasts duration and your SCH is decent enough to get capped helixs, (can easily make helix last Rayke to Rayke and usually overcap the damage each time) you are looking at SCH doing about ~40% of the hp without showing on parse from the helix's so if you do 75% of the remaining 60% of hp you are only actually doing 45% of the total damage which is not impressive although got the job done which is what matters. Of course if you win with time to spare the helix % goes down and is much easier to compare looking at damage per second since helixs cap out at 1k damage per second.

3. The fight is much more about timing abilities effectively than any one person's gear. Gear just makes things easier.

With the recent Ongo discussion, a few gearing questions for a semi-lapsed BLM (2100 JP, no Master Levels quite yet) since I'm the best geared BLM of our usual Gaol team. I'm usually more of a physical DD/tank player though, so please excuse my blind spots when it comes to nukes ;)

Stuff I have:

• Marin+1 R15 and trusty ol' Lathi

• 4/5 Ea+1 (NQ shoes just due to not having seen +1 for sale since revisiting my BLM gear, but I'll probably grab them at some point)

• All relevant AF/Relic/Empy reforged pieces

• 0 Amalric +1

• JSE +1 neck R20

• Most/all other relevant accessories, the notable lacking ones that come to mind are that I have no augs yet on Ghastly Tathlum +1 or Metamorph Ring +1

I have a few questions & have seen a couple suggestions that I don't quite understand:

First 3 are all probably about dINT to some extent...

1a) Why Regal Earring over Barkarole in a set without any AF pieces? I get it for like an AF+3 body set, but isn't it generally going to be worse than Barkarole if not getting the set bonus (basically INT+7 Regal versus Macc+8/MAB+1 Barkarole)?

1b) Pemphredo versus Ghastly +1 - when to use each? I tend to feel like I'd default to the higher Macc on Pemphredo, but when might the additional dINT (and Mdmg) from Ghastly be worth it? Is this more of an Ongo-specific recommendation due to Stone spells getting the most benefit from INT?

1c) Similarly, why/when go for Enki Strap over Khonsu?

2) Is MB Merlinic useful any more?

3) Are Amalric +1 hands/feet that necessary any more for damage with stuff like Ea+1 and Relic+3 as alternatives? (I realize HQ Amalric is still nice for max MP, and I do use the relevant NQ pieces for that... though IDK that I'm a hardcore enough BLM to make +1s solely for that purpose unless they have also have significant value elsewhere)

FWIW, my current default MB set for difficult stuff like an Ongo would be something like the following, but plenty open to critique/suggestions!
ItemSet 382681
Swap to Spaekona's Coat +3 and Regal Earring for an MP return set. Due to +1 neck, that would bring me just short of MB Dmg I cap at +38, or +39 once I'm able to upgrade to Ea+1 feet... WDYT, any other swaps worth it to keep capped Burst damage I (Mizu neck? Relic+3 hands? Feels like a no given the drop offs in Macc/INT and MBBII respectively, but open to advice)

I made a whole post about the comments you made but i just went ahead and deleted it clearly you didnt take anything we said as info to learn so ill chalk it up as another person just parroting about how they beat it ezpz.

I mean I would've responded to the burn comment but clearly he didn't post this to learn anything was more about how everyone who did ongo before him was wrong and parrots.

Perhaps my last post was too unfocused, so to reframe things about one key issue in particular: I don't quite understand when to prioritize INT over other gear stats (Macc, MAB, whatever). Conceptually, I understand the concept of dINT (e.g., this BG explanation). But I don't have a good sense of where I actually am relative to a mob, which dINT 'tier', etc.

I see some gear choices in recommended Ongo sets that are clearly prioritizing INT over alternatives, such as Enki Strap, Regal Earring, Ghastly Tathlum. But I'm not quite sure WHY that is the case. Are people basing it on actually knowing INT value for Ongo and gearing accordingly to hit a certain dINT tier? From practical experience of "this set works better" from actual in-game results? Just betting on leaning toward INT in that fight in particular given the higher impact of INT on Stone spells?

I can't give you an exact, factual answer on Ongo's INT or anything but I can tell you that I've seen massive in-game results posted about the difference between a "standard" MB dmg set and a set that favors extra INT. The INT sets nearly always have a clear and oftentimes large lead over the "BiS" MB dmg sets. It doesn't have to be an enormous difference in INT, either.

A lot of us after first interactions with V15 Ongo with traditional sets/buffs were rightfully shocked by the low numbers, and I know for myself, the first thought I had was maybe SE just pumped up the base stats of these mobs like crazy, wrecking our dINT values in the fight compared to prior bursting situations. This I believe also explains the addition of BRD over RDM in most setups to give Etudes, as debuffs weren't landing predictably enough, either.

BUT...I do believe that while the boosted INT sets were helpful, I think that time has shown that his Resist Rank plays a much larger role, explaining why Rayke, Subtle Sorcery, and longer skillchains are so incredibly powerful in this fight.

I for one lately have been toying with removing some of the excess INT in my sets in lieu of more typical +damage type stats of MAB for Ongo, in particular since gaining some "free" INT in Master Levels. Not a ton, mind you- but little swaps here and there like dropping my Regal Earring back to a Barkarole, for example.

So the argument the past few days is you don't need top gear as you may win without it? That's true of many/most gear decisions with that logic and not new for this BLM discussion. I just don't agree it's a great idea to under-gear 'cuz you can win' in an event that is end game level. Note: Now if EA+1 set or w/e BIS gear is unaffordable, then it's a non-option case vs lazy. NO excuses to not gear BIS where possible; otherwise you are relying on folks to take up more slack.

Some folks will want an EA set and would suggest it's "needed" and some say otherwise. Their experience is just as "right". Gimping from near BIS for w/e reason is a slippery slope. I don't find many people are on board with gimping gearsets as acceptable in the harder events.

The reason people avoid Ea feet, NQ or HQ is because it lacks INT.
Personally would use amalric hands & feet. Probably swap to ea+1 & agwu once agwu feet are r20 but haven't looked at the numbers.

While that's what most of the back-and-forth has been about, there is a fundamental underlying point that as long as the BLM gear meets a reasonable baseline level, the more impactful variables than perfect gear are things like Rayke/Gambit, appropriate buffs/debuffs (e.g. using BRD Threnody, INT etudes), multistep SCs, making the most of your SC opportunities, SCH helping land some good Helix MBs, Random Deal/Wild Card resets, etc...

While it's true that you can win with worse BLM gear than the suggested target sets, it IS kind of a weird flex. To state the painfully obvious, better gear is always preferable to worse gear. But being charitable, I think the more positive way of interpreting the original point is that it provides some encouragement to groups who don't have a fully kitted out BLM, let them know that with a solid overall strategy you can get this done on a bit more of a budget on gear. Which is a totally fine message, I think it's more the way it was delivered ("YOU ARE ALL SHEEP" vibes) that rubbed some people the wrong way.


Thanks for pointing that out, I overlooked that lack of INT on feet. Like I said, I make no claims of being a pro BLM ;)

In my case, I don't already have Amalric +1 hands/feet so I may just go Agwu in that slot even though it's not augmented yet. Allows me more flexibility for retaining capped MBB (such as a perfect +40 in my set using +1 neck if I needed to swap into AF+3 body). On stuff without such harsh INT needs, can still do Ea/+1 for the MBII.