BREXIT Just Happened...

Let's bet on whose sock it is!
The attitude doesn't feel new..!

That is mostly due to globalization, except the Fishing waters. Its true and well known the UK got a bad deal. But everything else you mentioned is due to Thatcher and Globalization.

In the mid 1980's and early 1990's, the US (Reagan) and UK (Thatcher) started their war on unions and dismantled them.

The result is a generation of workers who do not understand the concept of collective bargaining. This, paired with markets that are more open, and rise in the population of educated workforce has lead to the rise of Multinational corporate giants.

Skilled labour and white collar jobs took a massive hit as their compensation has been stagnate, relatively speaking in terms of real purchasing power adjusted for inflation, for 3 decades at least.

We can debate this for hours, but as Chomsky so elegantly put it: We are graduating people suited for the industrial age in the era of information and innovation.

The education system needs to change. It needs to change most in countries such as the UK and US. We need to create entrepreneurs and scientists. We are creating marketeers, Public Relations specialists, Clerks and administrators in higher learning. Those that do not have an undergraduate or graduate degree these days need to accept one of two choices: Become and Entrepreneur or compete with Chinese and Indian labour rates.

The white collar jobs have already pretty much migrated to the east as well. Our economies are gearing themselves to be able to export to the largest markets in the world, and they're all in the east. All the world's greatest entrepreneurs are learning mandarin.

Being a consumer economy is not an option anymore. Being an industrial economy is not an option anymore. We need real innovation, we need to create real value - economics 101. That is why the number of poor is increasing, that is why there are no jobs, that is why it might seem like immigrants are taking "your jobs", but all they are doing is either accepting the market rate as compensation (which you see as being undercut) or bringing skills and knowledge that is scarce in your country (scientists, medical practitioners, etc).

When the world went global, you stopped competing against your neighbours, the other city in your state/county and started competing against everyone on the planet. Its harsh and I don't agree with it, I prefer regional blocks, but I'm not going to blame it on immigrants.

Yes it's being controlled by Brussels, not Westminster.
How did mass uncontrolled immigration work out for native america?


I was in a rush to meet a friend so my answers were brief and I hoped people would do some research on the subject instead of waiting to be told by some random on the internet.
EHRC and EU both have seperate human rights legislation that makes the whole thing very annoying to deal with. To be an EU member state, you also must accept the EHRC. As the EU can't make changes to EHRC, they brought in their own legislation so all members now have 2 sets of human rights legislation.
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-and-human-rights/

Do you know that immigrants in general have a positive effect on economies? Immigrants, not refugees.

Even the EDL doesn't dispute that. For every 10 pounds of support that is provided to immigrants 21 pounds of value in services are put back into the economy.

Half of that number is from third country nationals that the UK already has absolutely control over.

Hypothetical situation for you Caseyant:

Lets say tomorrow the UK deported everyone who is an immigrant. You see "less stress on NHS, council housing, places at schools and Universities" - economics sees "less need for dr's, less need for civil servants, less need for teachers" as well as the loss of the services and consumer power that those working professionals were putting into the market.

Now some say they were undercutting native born Brits. Well now that they are gone, your plumber, taxi driver, hairdresser, landscaper, civil servants and Nurses started commanding higher salaries due to the shortage and higher demand for their skills, which the government then has to cover for by taxing you. Only there is less people to Tax, so they have to tax you more.

GG

You know that the Brexit-campaigners still want free movement of labour don't you? Daniel Hannan stated that on TV. (after the referendum of course)
Sorry if you got the wrong impression before, clearly wasn't intended!
Similar to the NHS promise.

This is just what people say when they have nothing to back up their stance lol... Try to discredit the other person and refuse to answer a single question! You'd make a decent politician at least...

I'm not blaming it on immigrants either. Immigration is the effect, not the cause. Identifying the effect as a problem is the only way to fix the cause. It was obvious the EU refused to move on its policy of ever closer union and we for sure do not want to put our armed forces into a Euro Army controlled by unelected beurocrats.

You could have just veto'd to participate it when it gets on the table. No one could have forced you to send your soldiers into an EU army if it was created.

Wy would we deport all immigrants? We want to give our public services a chance to catch up with our increasing population, not kick everyone out. At the minute, population increase is happening too fast and the system can't cope. It needs time to stabalize between huge influxes of migrants. The only way to do that is to slow the flow and create the infastructure to support a larger population.

I find it amusing that anyone seriously thought they'd do anything they promised during their campaign. Nobody who has ever said "I'm going to invest in the NHS" has ever done it. British politicians don't care if they NHS falls apart, they`re selling it off soon anyway.

Brexit don't have a plan, they never did. They're as surprised at the leave vote as the other half of the UK who wanted to stay.

Spineless politicians are the cause of the problem. I'd rather not put that decision in their hands to be honest. We can't even strike up a decent enough deal to make us stay in the EU, I wouldn't trust a politician to be so bold. Yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir is the British politicians policy when it comes to the EU.

The reaction was 100% pure fear based and had no basis on reality. UK business's didn't suddenly become unable to do business hours after the vote results were announced. UK hasn't even left the EU yet, everything is exactly the same now as it was before the vote, nothing has changed.

If people were smart they would of bought a ***ton of GBP when the rate fell and then sold them back for a profit one week later.

The article linked does confirm that the eu does enforce what you were talking about as well but it also confirms that you would still be held accountable even if you weren't in the eu. It didn't really detail the difference in the process between the eu and the hrc only that you face possible fines if you don't correct the action taken...

*** lol, keyboard warriors shouting empty threats over twitter is not the same as outright racial abuse.

That is a problem.

Death threats should be taken seriously.

I think many people pointed out that this vote illustrated a divide the UK that needs to be addressed.

It looks like there are a lot of issues that were ignored or unknown.

Wonder what the tensions are like in other EU countries

You're very angry, how bout you step out and take a deep breath.

I'd like to clarify - Not all decisions/policies can be 'vetoed'. Some policies can be passed by a 'majority vote'.

Therefore even if British politicians (spineless or not) didn't agree/want to join xyz EU policy, depending on the policy they may not even get the opportunity to use their veto.

Feels like the European Parliament here... In a FFXI gaming forum.... Out of all the places! Shame I don't earn what MEPs earn!

That's what happens when politicians hear what they want to hear and ignore their constituents grievances. It's about time westminster was shaken up. They can't deny there is a problem now, and they don't quite know how to deal with it. The recent rush of resignations is making that painfully obvious. They have bred these divisions over the last 8 years, now they need to deal with the mess they created.

Bit late for this but it was only Nigel Farage that commented that the money was going to the NHS. Seriously anyone who believes anything that idiot comes out with needs their head checking. Apart from the fact he holds no real sway over where any money goes in the country and he has what 1 MP in parliament and it's not even Farage himself.

This sooner he gets out of politics the better he really does nothing for the country but costs us money with his wage.

So they aren't even hiding their intention anymore?

They aren't gonna make any kind of deal with the UK unless they allow open migration? Why is that feature No. 1 in all possible talks/deals?



Why is that the forefront of all negotiations? Why does that top every other important factor that could involve different nations interacting? There's no deeper reason? Its really about bringing in loads of refugees now? "UK you aren't getting squat till you take loads like the rest of us have been"?

I'm trying to maintain at least a somewhat impartial view but the direction of these interactions is beginning to make me scratch my head. Its getting difficult to doubt that there's an agenda.

I thought the NHS promise came from Boris, the guy that drove around in a bus with the campaign slogan plastered on it. I posted the picture earlier, Farage is the clown that went on tv and said it was a mistake for "those guys" to make that promise. Also, who let him speak to the EU parliament? How embarrassing.

Felt like the interpretation was 350M was gonna go to the NHS a week instead of the EU. But I think the intent was to have a fraction go to NHS and rest to other projects. And with the political mess that's happened it wasn't conveyed properly or was intentionally misleading