Random Politics & Religion #02

We got funny names too anyway, I think they exist everywhere.

There's a town in Italy whose name translates as "Nicebutt".

Hey, you are the one claiming that it is easier to sustain yourself without the government getting a cut.

That's similar to saying it's cheaper to eat out if you dine and dash. While true on the face of it, from an individual perspective, it merely shifts the burden to someone else.

Wiser, according to whom? Good luck getting the members of the forum to all agree on what is wise, and that is likely without people having actively having fingers in the pie.

You *may* get areas where you can find some agreement, but it is likely to be few and far between.

Now extrapolate to the general population.

BY all means, tell us how using cash and not depending on the government is a bad thing and how it equates to "dine and dash".

I am waiting in breathless anticipation.





Let's start with the grey areas and go from there, while not expanding our massive government even more!
The complete opposite view of the democratic candidates!

By using cash (a government backed currency), you are depending on the government.

All you are doing is prevaricating over what level of dependency is acceptable.

And regarding the "dine and dash" comment, it directly reflects your comment here:
On the face of it, supporting yourself is easier when the government isn't taking any money from you, as long as you have access to the same supporting infrastructure. Which is where the dine and dash analogue comes to play, since payment for that infrastructure/support is merely shoved to others.

Yeah, it is easier just to toss out vague condescending arguments with no truth to them at all.

Like this.

OK Altima, lets try yet a different approach:
What governmental services that you benefit from, are you willing to no longer have?

Even though our currency is not backed by gold anymore, it is simple to exchange it for gold. Every single country on the planet will accept gold for currency! So your argument is moot to say the least and at worst nonsensical pertaining to the discussion at hand.




What supporting infrastructure that isn't being paid for when using cash is getting taken advantage of here?

The only governmental services that benefit me are payed for with property tax and taxes such as gas tax. Staying within our discussion all of these are paid for in cash. Unlike other taxes they are unavoidable no matter the form of payment

I've never said all taxes are bad. You imply I do. This is not an argument about all or nothing that you seem to be in favor of.

All this talk about spending cash and taxes and not one iota about it being fiat currency and how its value comes from taxation..

And cash, cash in of itself is a government service. Which is also the point he's trying to make. Unless of course the cash your referencing is counterfeit.

Unavoidable? Sure they are. Don't own property, and don't drive a car.

So, you don't benefit (directly or indirectly):
from defense?
from trade agreements?
from other international agreements?
from research funded in national labs?
from emergency services (e.g. E911)?
from the establishment of a national highway system?
from US funded structural works (e.g. Panama canal)
from electromagnetic spectrum allotment?
from public hospitals?
from public schools and universities?
from parks?
from libraries?
from prisons?
from food and drug safety?
That's certainly not a comprehensive list, some of which are at local level, some of which are at national, some of which are both.

No, I'm stating that your statement/concept that it is easier to take care of yourself when you don't pay taxes, as you outlined here:
is extremely inaccurate and misleading, and is only true if you assume that the services are available without any reduction "when the government isn't taking their cut".
Let alone having the advantage of money spent to date.

It isn't to say that all governmental aspects ***gold and piss diamonds by any measure, but it isn't honest to count them as valueless either.

Not just funny but also disgusting ones here. like gut city (as in Gastrointestinal tract). There exist funny, disgusting or embarrassing surnames too because the words changed their meaning over time or our interpretation changed because of other languages.
The News anchor of my info-radio always has to introduce herself with Porn (not translated) as last name. Or a TV moderator whose name is 'farmer's enemy' (translated).

Actually I already addressed that.
Maybe you didn't see it since the post is directly above yours.



/sigh

No that's you saying you can buy gold with cash. Which is not the same as when were on a gold backed system and could walk into a bank exchange notes for gold and vice versa. Try it today.

In relation to your cash only argument, the value of cash is dependant on taxation due to it being a fiat currency. Which is not something you've mentioned.

Choice is awesome don't you agree?


90% of which cannot be avoided by using cash only. You are missing the entire point.

You mean exactly what you are trying to do.. Pretty much everything that is "relied on" is an unavoidable tax. Some can even be disregarded by simply choosing not to participate in land ownership or car ownership.

Now, if you want to talk about "entitlements" like all welfare, the ACA and only god know how many government agencies sucking money out of working peoples hands.. Using cash only drastically undercuts their funding.

We aren't all lucky enough to be a Wolf Blitzer or Magnus Ver Magnusson.

I like how some aspects of technological development are beyond what private corporations can afford that the need for government funding is an alien concept.

I was about to chime in that 'privatize everything!' is neither good for the public or private industry.

You realize that even when we was on the gold standard the price of gold and our gold backed currency fluctuated right? The only difference now is paper money is basically worthless without the government backing it up.

Gold and silver will always have value. It is just exchanged for currency since that is what our economy runs on. The currency could be totally worthless tomorrow, while the gold will have some kind of value.

At any rate, I don't know what else you could be going on about. I can walk right into any Gold dealer and buy gold or sell gold, walk right over to the bank and use the currency I just acquired or take money out and buy gold with it. Turning my worthless currency into a metal that has been proven to have value for THOUSANDS of years.

Because?

Oh and

He could cash checks made out to the business at the issuing bank with copies of his business licenses. Admittedly this is inefficient, but so is driving 300+ miles to pick a used part up.

Also see my answer to Alti.

Probably, but he could have payed a bookkeeping firm in cash to keep his accounts straight and cut his employee's checks.

And around here mechanics get way more than $15/hour.

And what is the value of gold today? Not the rate for $/ounce, but what can be done with gold to give it value in today's world?

Makes no difference. It will ALWAYS have value, no matter what. Even in a zombie apocalypse it would have value.

Your missing the fact that in the grand scheme, currency is worthless and gold will always have value.

Waste of time and money.


We agree..

Ethan Frome ?

Taxation has jack ***to do with the value of a floating currency.

A fixed paper currency just means a specified amount of a specific item is sitting in a government's vault and the paper is redeemable for that specific item. Some pretty big problems arise from that system though, mostly that the total currency that could be in circulation is limited by the amount of that item that the government can store in a vault. If the economy is growing faster then that government can shove that item into that value, then the economy gets strangled. Benefit is that the government is limited in the amount of currency it can circulate and thus everyone's savings has a built in protected.

A floating paper currency just means the value of each paper is divided among the total number in circulation and is worth whatever someone else is willing to buy it for. There is no specific item required to be stored in a vault and the issuing government can print however much it wants. Benefit is that no more strangled economy, downside is the government needs to practice restraint otherwise hyperinflation happens.

USA has an interesting though highly misunderstood system.

Hey thanks for chiming in and attempting to sound like an expert by bringing a quasi related aspect of the US economy.

Floating currency means the exchange rate is not fixed by government fiat.

I can see where you had the misunderstanding.