Burns Oregon Refuge Takeover Ends In Blood

I just have to wonder how they ever thought this was going to end.

Chuckles down at the bar in a few weeks after the government decided to rework the entire country for a few cheap ranchers?

I get their grievances. I don't agree with them, but I can see how they make sense in a very roundabout way, and I can see how they were all likely raised to think in this screwed up way.

But what I don't get is how they expected all of this to go down.

They went in, armed, and occupied a government building.

I don't care if it's a bird refuge or Langley, and I don't care if you're doing it for Allah or for the right to let you cows have an all-you-can-eat buffet for free. You take guns into a government building and claim it as your own trying to force ideological change on the government, you're committing an act of aggression against America, and you're a terrorist.

Now, a looooooot of people in those ranchers demographic have some very specific, unkind (and, frankly, very unconstitutional, thoughts about what America should do with terrorists.

They just don't seem to realize that terrorists come in more flavors than "Muslim."

King, I don't believe the protesters do either.

And IMHO calling them terrorists is incorrect. Taking up arms against the government makes them traitors.

There isn't going to be an "order to massacre" lol. But the feds are tightening the noose, no longer are the criminals allowed to come and go as they please. I don't know why they were ever allowed to, I think the feds really did want it to end peacefully, and I think they still do. But the gloves are coming off a little bit.

Both are fine words to use for them imo, though in fairness I could see dodging "traitor" by saying that they were never loyal or believing or a willing part of the U.S.'s "illegitimate" government in the first place.

...but again, to many rednecks, that's exactly why terrorists shouldn't get Constitutional defenses when it comes to their trials and punishment, soooo...careful what you wish for?

Considering some of our heroes (the people that started this nation) were both, "meh."

I think they're getting what they wanted all along: Martyrdom.

Their purpose, I believe, was to take up arms against what they believe to be a tyrannical federal government.

They succeeded in making a big spectacle out of it, and now they will succeed in becoming martyrs. There will be a lot of crying and gnashing of teeth over this by people who share similar viewpoints, and perhaps a few of them will run out with their guns and die like dogs in very much the same way. Overall, the impact of all of this will be very small, and it'll be remembered a lot in the same way we remember the incident in Waco-- just a bunch of wackos who were doing really dumb things who nobody cared about.

Thing about definitions and dictionaries, they're not all encompassing.

But hey, that requires more thought.

Which is exactly the problem. These dopes think they're some sort of modern-day revolutionaries.

They're just dipshits with delusions of grandeur who need to go back to tending their cattle. They're wasting their time and endangering their own lives and their families' well-beings to...to do what, exactly?

Are they actually trying to overthrow the entire government from a bird refuge?

I feel like this particular institution was strategically selected just because it is relatively ridiculous, yet still ideologically suited to their needs. It's silly enough that they wouldn't be taken entirely seriously (avoiding swift and violent response from the government and a bit of public skepticism), yet it's tied closely enough to their ideals that it still means something.

They're not entirely stupid. I just don't know what the *** they thought was going to happen that would result in a net positive.

Why they are dopes, I don't necessarily agree with that it's a problem. If they want to go that rout, more power to them.

Its a problem when you are costing the state 100k day of taxpayer money and all the locals want it to end. Its been allowed to go on for too long.

Governments should fear their people, not the other way around, it's true.

But not because they're physically in danger from men with guns. No one should have to live like that except people in prison for doing horrific things.

And while unrelated to the topic, oddly enough, those prisoners who did horrific things are some of the safest *** people in the world when it comes to the category of "having to worry about being shot while acting appropriately."

I wonder at what point they cost (edit: past tense because I'm sure they've steamrolled way past it) honest taxpayers more than the money the Bundy's should have paid in grazing fees? -.-;

I wonder if Cliven himself cost us more from the get-go with his stupid ***two years ago.

Can't entirely agree with this one, it's kind of the reason we're guaranteed to have them.

In the grand sense, yes!

But a group of paper pushing civil servants shouldn't have to feel intimidated at gunpoint by a bunch of rednecks pissy about their land use fees.

"Armed FDA Agent III" Should expect to be shot at maybe a time or two in his/her career.

"Clerk Typist III" should not.

I'm not saying that what you just described isn't a problem as it is, but it isn't THAT problem.

Good thing they weren't (unless I totally missed something, in which case my bad.)

Armed men occupying a federal building makes this scenario a very real possibility.

Because if you give this guys a single breath of what they want, that's going to inspire other people to do it too. Which means every government building out there is a bigger target than it already is.

Right now the only person dead is a single perpetrator. Unfortunate, but it's a position he put himself into and, by all accounts, was more than willing to accept as a possibility.

But if you give these jackoffs anything they want and that's going to expand to innocents in the near future by setting a precedent. "Hey, these guys got *this* much by taking over a building, let's see what we can get by actually taking hostages!"

Nevada Refuses To Say How Many Inmates Employees Shot.

birdshot is used in several prisons across the country to "keep prisoners orderly". they'll fire it at the ground and the ricochet hits people that have nothing to do with what's going on.

Yeah, I hope they throw the book at all of them, especially now that someone has died as a result of their criminal behavior.

Yeah. I wasn't talking about mistreatment of the general population in prisons. That's pretty well established and known. Our prison system is *** awful.

But I'm talking about the really heinous folks they keep in maximum security and the like. In their room 23 hours a day. That kind of thing.

They're pretty *** safe in there from being shot and killed as long as they behave is all I'm saying.

Well then. Hope things go peaceably.

...given what's happened so far though, I wouldn't count on it. =\

I doubt there will be any casualties, those rednecks might have their deer rifles, but its not going to go like they expect it to. The feds aren't just going to come strolling in the front door, they will launch tear gas and concussion grenades in abundance, riot shields leading the way, it will be over in a few seconds and we can all go home.

I just...some of these guys are in their 40s and 50s, right?

Do they not remember Waco and Ruby Ridge?

Do they not understand...

Ugh!

Just wish they'd get the point. "Take your punishment for being stupid, go home and tend your *** cows already, guys. This isn't the way to effect change at this point in time."

Maybe they're just too far lost to ideology to think sensibly. I don't know. But it's unfortunate.

Even if it does end peaceably they're too lost to their misguided cause and they're going to blame their cohort's death on the government and not realize that it's their own damn fault.

So much for personal responsibility.