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14yo arrested bringing homemade clock to school
By Jassik 2015-09-24 12:18:02
How did you know there were no explosives? Do you have x-ray vision now?
Look at the image, try to identify the parts you think constitute a bomb, then point out which part COULD be the explosive.
I'm pretty sure most of the people in this thread can't tell the difference between a 7 segment display and a LCD display, much less decipher something that could spark an incendiary device. But hey.
That's the point. People have preconceptions about what a bomb looks like, mostly because they've only ever seen them in movies and such. They have no real understanding of what is necessary to make an explosive. But, instead of being mindful of their ignorance, they jump from "it looks like a bomb" to "a hoax bomb would look like what I think a bomb looks like". That's not really unreasonable in and of itself, it follows a logical path, it's just counterproductive.
 Ragnarok.Kongming
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By Ragnarok.Kongming 2015-09-24 12:19:58
Ragnarok.Kongming said: »You're saying that no one would assume the device to be a bomb. That is an argument that you have made. I can counter this argument by demonstrating that even you yourself think that this is ultimately wrong. Your retort? That my point is for whatever reason irrelevant. Bravo. You're only vindicating my point.
Because your figurative example is irrelevant. You literally just pulled it our of your ***. In that context I would be far more inclined to presume it could be suspicious than in a school where children make and break things to learn in the first place. Which part of this simple reasoning is tripping you up, dear? It's not irrelevant. You just agreed the device looks suspicious. You're at least now agreeing with the kid who "made" it.
The rest is down to the circumstances which I already admit are dubious. Why did he have it set to alarm in English class? Why did he bring a device he thought looked suspicious to school at all? Why is he offering utterly no explanation?
These questions have reasonable answers, and neither of us know what they are. You claim to, why not enlighten me and I can stop being tripped up?
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By Ragnarok.Kongming 2015-09-24 12:21:13
"a hoax bomb would look like what I think a bomb looks like" Are you saying this is wrong?
If you were to make a hoax bomb, what would you make it look like?
By Jetackuu 2015-09-24 12:21:48
How did you know there were no explosives? Do you have x-ray vision now?
Look at the image, try to identify the parts you think constitute a bomb, then point out which part COULD be the explosive.
I'm pretty sure most of the people in this thread can't tell the difference between a 7 segment display and a LCD display, much less decipher something that could spark an incendiary device. But hey.
That's the point. People have preconceptions about what a bomb looks like, mostly because they've only ever seen them in movies and such. They have no real understanding of what is necessary to make an explosive. But, instead of being mindful of their ignorance, they jump from "it looks like a bomb" to "a hoax bomb would look like what I think a bomb looks like". That's not really unreasonable in and of itself, it follows a logical path, it's just counterproductive.
IDK about the rest of you but if I wanted to scare the ***out of people I'd probably use a full metal case, have it have a counter, some colored liquid in glass tubes, etc.
Like this:
Although I can tell that most of that isn't one (I can't see below the board) and that it's harmless, it looks much scarier than a clock in a pencil case.
By Jassik 2015-09-24 12:22:27
Ragnarok.Kongming said: »"a hoax bomb would look like what I think a bomb looks like" Are you saying this is wrong?
If you were to make a hoax bomb, what would you make it look like? That's not really unreasonable in and of itself, it follows a logical path, it's just counterproductive.
The simple answer is I wouldn't make a hoax bomb.
Edit: since the answer to your question was basically contained in the post you quoted, I'm guessing I misunderstood your question. Care to clarify?
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By Ragnarok.Kongming 2015-09-24 12:24:35
Ragnarok.Kongming said: »"a hoax bomb would look like what I think a bomb looks like" Are you saying this is wrong?
If you were to make a hoax bomb, what would you make it look like? That's not really unreasonable in and of itself, it follows a logical path, it's just counterproductive.
The simple answer is I wouldn't make a hoax bomb. I guess this means that no one would ever make a hoax bomb, especially Muslim boys because this contorts your world view.
I'm so glad no one has fell victim to their own confirmation bias here.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-09-24 12:27:32
How did you know there were no explosives? Do you have x-ray vision now? Look at the image, try to identify the parts you think constitute a bomb, then point out which part COULD be the explosive. As I have pointed out before the briefcase itself could be explosive.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 12:32:27
I think we have come full circle now.
Nobody's mind will be changed based on the information present, those who believe the kid made a hoax bomb will continue to do so with all evidence presented, and those who think that the kid made a clock and deserves to be rewarded by going to the White House is going to believe that, regardless of any evidence presented that counters their thinking.
By Jassik 2015-09-24 12:33:30
Ok, I guess I have to give you the longform answer because there is a lot of assumption about my thoughts for some reason.
Does it make sense that a person trying to push the idea that we treat muslims different when there is doubt would make a hoax bomb to draw attention? Sure, it's plausible.
Does it make sense that a person trying to build a hoax bomb would make it look like the incorrect image people have of bombs? Again, yeah, it's plausible.
Are the circumstances of the situation suspicious? (clock is shown willingly, then goes off in another class when the desired reaction doesn't occur, etc) Somewhat, but kids also will do passive aggressive things to get attention, even if it's just desire for affirmation.
Did the administration and police handle the situation well? Eh, some aspects are most definitely justifiable, others can be chalked up to lack of training or ambiguous policies.
What I don't like about the situation is that instead of it being used as a springboard for a greater dialogue about why we're all still so angry and scared 15 years after 9/11 and how we can move forward as a society, it's just an excuse for people to squabble and try to score political points.
If that's not clear enough, feel free to ask, but stop feigning skepticism while labeling everyone else as a parrot.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-09-24 12:34:05
*rolls eyes*
Hey guys I acknowledge we agree to disagree but lemme reinforce that you are wrong and I am right through my wording.
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By Jassik 2015-09-24 12:35:13
How did you know there were no explosives? Do you have x-ray vision now? Look at the image, try to identify the parts you think constitute a bomb, then point out which part COULD be the explosive. As I have pointed out before the briefcase itself could be explosive.
It's possible, I guess, but it's also a pencil case, and unless it's made entirely of a really high energy explosive, it would be little more than a camera flash.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-09-24 12:36:57
*rolls eyes*
Hey guys I acknowledge we agree to disagree but lemme reinforce that you are wrong and I am right through my wording. What evidence is there again that the kid created the clock out of nothing?
Because that is the kid's entire defense, you know.
By Jetackuu 2015-09-24 12:37:30
How did you know there were no explosives? Do you have x-ray vision now? Look at the image, try to identify the parts you think constitute a bomb, then point out which part COULD be the explosive. As I have pointed out before the briefcase itself could be explosive.
Wasn't a briefcase, and source? As I'm sure you're not an explosives expert.
By Jassik 2015-09-24 12:39:58
*rolls eyes*
Hey guys I acknowledge we agree to disagree but lemme reinforce that you are wrong and I am right through my wording. What evidence is there again that the kid created the clock out of nothing?
Because that is the kid's entire defense, you know.
I didn't get that impression from his statements, but I'm also not assuming much about his expertise and assuming a lot about kids.
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By Ragnarok.Kongming 2015-09-24 12:42:37
Ok, I guess I have to give you the longform answer because there is a lot of assumption about my thoughts for some reason.
Does it make sense that a person trying to push the idea that we treat muslims different when there is doubt would make a hoax bomb to draw attention? Sure, it's plausible.
Does it make sense that a person trying to build a hoax bomb would make it look like the incorrect image people have of bombs? Again, yeah, it's plausible.
Are the circumstances of the situation suspicious? (clock is shown willingly, then goes off in another class when the desired reaction doesn't occur, etc) Somewhat, but kids also will do passive aggressive things to get attention, even if it's just desire for affirmation.
Did the administration and police handle the situation well? Eh, some aspects are most definitely justifiable, others can be chalked up to lack of training or ambiguous policies.
What I don't like about the situation is that instead of it being used as a springboard for a greater dialogue about why we're all still so angry and scared 15 years after 9/11 and how we can move forward as a society, it's just an excuse for people to squabble and try to score political points.
If that's not clear enough, feel free to ask, but stop feigning skepticism while labeling everyone else as a parrot. You share my opinions more or less verbatim.
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By Jassik 2015-09-24 12:47:38
Ragnarok.Kongming said: »You share my opinions more or less verbatim.
Do you admit you made a lot of assumptions? I really am not trying to be an *** about it, I am just making a point about assumption and it's role in conflict.
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By Ragnarok.Kongming 2015-09-24 12:49:33
Ragnarok.Kongming said: »You share my opinions more or less verbatim.
Do you admit you made a lot of assumptions? I really am not trying to be an *** about it, I am just making a point about assumption and it's role in conflict. Assumptions in order to reach a point of skepticism? Sure, I have to because I don't have all the facts. I feel like you might be misinterpreting my position or confusing me with someone else, because this seems like a nonsensical question.
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By Jassik 2015-09-24 12:53:55
Ragnarok.Kongming said: »Ragnarok.Kongming said: »"a hoax bomb would look like what I think a bomb looks like" Are you saying this is wrong?
If you were to make a hoax bomb, what would you make it look like? That's not really unreasonable in and of itself, it follows a logical path, it's just counterproductive.
The simple answer is I wouldn't make a hoax bomb. I guess this means that no one would ever make a hoax bomb, especially Muslim boys because this contorts your world view.
I'm so glad no one has fell victim to their own confirmation bias here.
I was talking about the tone of this post.
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By Ragnarok.Kongming 2015-09-24 12:56:52
Ragnarok.Kongming said: »Ragnarok.Kongming said: »"a hoax bomb would look like what I think a bomb looks like" Are you saying this is wrong?
If you were to make a hoax bomb, what would you make it look like? That's not really unreasonable in and of itself, it follows a logical path, it's just counterproductive.
The simple answer is I wouldn't make a hoax bomb. I guess this means that no one would ever make a hoax bomb, especially Muslim boys because this contorts your world view.
I'm so glad no one has fell victim to their own confirmation bias here.
I was talking about the tone of this post. I made an assumption about you, certainly, which I was wrong about.
I feel like most people blindly defending him are doing so because he is Muslim and for no other reason. They have also foregone logic in order to defend this position, denying the sheer possibility that this is anything other than "just a clock".
Of course it's just a clock. That is a matter of factual truth. I am more interested in the huge amount of other facts governing this event that we don't know about that can turn "just a clock" into potentially something else.
I am frustrated because I would like to know those facts and I suspect I never will. Moreover, I am frustrated at those claiming to know them when really they do not.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-24 13:00:34
Ragnarok.Kongming said: »Ragnarok.Kongming said: »You share my opinions more or less verbatim.
Do you admit you made a lot of assumptions? I really am not trying to be an *** about it, I am just making a point about assumption and it's role in conflict. Assumptions in order to reach a point of skepticism? Sure, I have to because I don't have all the facts. I feel like you might be misinterpreting my position or confusing me with someone else, because this seems like a nonsensical question.
You clearly don't hang in P&R enough.
By Jassik 2015-09-24 13:00:40
Ragnarok.Kongming said: »I made an assumption about you, certainly, which I was wrong about.
I feel like most people blindly defending him are doing so because he is Muslim and for no other reason. They have also foregone logic in order to defend this position, denying the sheer possibility that this is anything other than "just a clock".
Of course it's just a clock. That is a matter of factual truth. I am more interested in the huge amount of other facts governing this event that we don't know about that can turn "just a clock" into potentially something else.
I am frustrated because I would like to know those facts and I suspect I never will. Moreover, I am frustrated at those claiming to know them when really they do not.
Unless those facts contribute to a meaningful dialogue, I'd rather they stayed unknown. But, I'm also of the opinion that the 24hr news cycle is beyond toxic and has built a perpetual cycle of conflict into our society to the point where people just aren't interested in facts or solving problems. They don't want stuff fixed, they want it to remain a problem indefinitely as a form of sick entertainment.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-24 13:07:25
Ragnarok.Kongming said: »I made an assumption about you, certainly, which I was wrong about.
I feel like most people blindly defending him are doing so because he is Muslim and for no other reason. They have also foregone logic in order to defend this position, denying the sheer possibility that this is anything other than "just a clock".
Of course it's just a clock. That is a matter of factual truth. I am more interested in the huge amount of other facts governing this event that we don't know about that can turn "just a clock" into potentially something else.
I am frustrated because I would like to know those facts and I suspect I never will. Moreover, I am frustrated at those claiming to know them when really they do not.
Unless those facts contribute to a meaningful dialogue, I'd rather they stayed unknown. But, I'm also of the opinion that the 24hr news cycle is beyond toxic and has built a perpetual cycle of conflict into our society to the point where people just aren't interested in facts or solving problems. They don't want stuff fixed, they want it to remain a problem indefinitely as a form of sick entertainment.
I feel like I'm listening to an alcoholic bash alcohol while he's drinking a beer.
Pot meet kettle.
Jesus.
By Jassik 2015-09-24 13:10:18
Ragnarok.Kongming said: »I made an assumption about you, certainly, which I was wrong about.
I feel like most people blindly defending him are doing so because he is Muslim and for no other reason. They have also foregone logic in order to defend this position, denying the sheer possibility that this is anything other than "just a clock".
Of course it's just a clock. That is a matter of factual truth. I am more interested in the huge amount of other facts governing this event that we don't know about that can turn "just a clock" into potentially something else.
I am frustrated because I would like to know those facts and I suspect I never will. Moreover, I am frustrated at those claiming to know them when really they do not.
Unless those facts contribute to a meaningful dialogue, I'd rather they stayed unknown. But, I'm also of the opinion that the 24hr news cycle is beyond toxic and has built a perpetual cycle of conflict into our society to the point where people just aren't interested in facts or solving problems. They don't want stuff fixed, they want it to remain a problem indefinitely as a form of sick entertainment.
I feel like I'm listening to an alcoholic bash alcohol while he's drinking a beer.
Pot meet kettle.
Jesus.
I'm pretty clear about my distaste for hot-button topics like these. Don't lump me in with a group of drama seekers just because I choose to express an opinion on the topic, especially when my opinion is SPECIFICALLY the opposition to making every newsbite into a full blown partisan shouting match.
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By Drama Torama 2015-09-24 13:11:23
Hi, remember a couple hours ago when I peeked in and things were still being civil?
How time flies.
By Jassik 2015-09-24 13:12:41
Hi, remember a couple hours ago when I peeked in and things were still being civil?
How time flies.
SCATTER!
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-24 13:14:48
Ragnarok.Kongming said: »I made an assumption about you, certainly, which I was wrong about.
I feel like most people blindly defending him are doing so because he is Muslim and for no other reason. They have also foregone logic in order to defend this position, denying the sheer possibility that this is anything other than "just a clock".
Of course it's just a clock. That is a matter of factual truth. I am more interested in the huge amount of other facts governing this event that we don't know about that can turn "just a clock" into potentially something else.
I am frustrated because I would like to know those facts and I suspect I never will. Moreover, I am frustrated at those claiming to know them when really they do not.
Unless those facts contribute to a meaningful dialogue, I'd rather they stayed unknown. But, I'm also of the opinion that the 24hr news cycle is beyond toxic and has built a perpetual cycle of conflict into our society to the point where people just aren't interested in facts or solving problems. They don't want stuff fixed, they want it to remain a problem indefinitely as a form of sick entertainment.
I feel like I'm listening to an alcoholic bash alcohol while he's drinking a beer.
Pot meet kettle.
Jesus.
I'm pretty clear about my distaste for hot-button topics like these. Don't lump me in with a group of drama seekers just because I choose to express an opinion on the topic, especially when my opinion is SPECIFICALLY the opposition to making every newsbite into a full blown partisan shouting match.
Sorry my friend (keeping it civil), you're just as much a member of the knee-jerk reaction crew as you no doubt think I am.
In the words of Jimmy Valmer
"I mean come, on..."
Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-09-24 13:14:52
Hi, remember a couple hours ago when I peeked in and things were still being civil?
How time flies. I only read the last few post but everyone seems to be playing nice
By Jassik 2015-09-24 13:17:58
Sorry my friend (keeping it civil), you're just as much a member of the knee-jerk reaction crew as you no doubt think I am.
In the words of Jimmy Valmer
"I mean come, on..."
I don't know what you're implying, but I almost never knee-jerk anything. I often play the devil's advocate, but I very rarely have a visceral reaction to anything, much less to ridiculous manufactured "news". I also don't exactly consider you part of the knee-jerk crew as a rule. For the most part, you're just a person who's really passionate about your beliefs. It's the way you approach people I take issue with.
Quote: 14-year-old Ahmed Mohamed arrested for bringing homemade clock to school
Police in Texas have arrested a 14-year-old boy for building a clock. Ahmed Mohamed, who lives in Irving and has a keen interest in robotics and engineering, put the device together on Sunday night. When he took it to school the next day, he was pulled out of class, interviewed by police officers, and taken in handcuffs to juvenile detention, after being told by teachers that his creation looked like a bomb.
Ahmed told The Dallas Morning News that he showed his clock — a simple device, created from a circuit board and a power supply wired to a digital display, all strapped inside a case with a tiger hologram on the front — to his engineering teacher first, who advised him not to show any other staff members at MacArthur High School. He originally kept it in his bag during English class, but his teacher heard it beep during the lesson — when Ahmed showed her his home-made clock at the end of class, she took it away from him. In sixth period, the school principal came for Ahmed with a police officer in tow, arresting him and marching him out of school. The schoolboy says he was interrogated by five officers, who asked why he was trying to make a bomb, and was threatened with expulsion by his Principal unless he made a written statement.
Ahmed may still be charged with making a "hoax bomb"
Irving police might still charge Ahmed with making a "hoax bomb." Police spokesperson James McLellan said Ahmed "kept maintaining it was a clock" when he was brought in for interrogation, but that he offered "no broader explanation." When asked by The Dallas Morning News what broader explanation Ahmed could have given for a clock that was actually a clock, McLellan said the creation "could reasonably be mistaken as a device if left in a bathroom or under a car." A police report released on Tuesday cites three MacArthur High teachers as complainants against Ahmed for the "hoax bomb."
Ahmed's father says his son was mistreated because of prejudice against Muslims
Mohamed Elhassan Mohamed, Ahmed's father, says his child suffered because of prejudice against Muslims. "Because his name is Mohamed and because of September 11th," Mohamed told The Dallas Morning News, "I think my son got mistreated." The Council on American-Islamic Relations is already investigating Ahmed's case, with Alia Salem, the director of the council's North Texas chapter, saying that it seemed "pretty egregious."
Ahmed said he was a member of his middle school's robotics club, and had tried to find a similar group in his high school. Now the 14-year-old — born in the same year that the terrorist attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon took place — says he'll no longer bring any of his inventions into school. A picture reportedly taken by Ahmed's sister shows him in handcuffs at the juvenile detention center, sporting a NASA T-shirt and an understandably confused expression. Ahmed was fingerprinted, before being allowed to return home, but is still serving a three-day suspension from school.
Many in the maker and tech community have already rallied around him. A hashtag — #IStandWithAhmed — rapidly rose to become one of Twitter's top trending topics, and support has come from a number of sources, including a JPL engineer who offered Ahmed the chance to see a Mars rover whenever he wants. Ahmed's father says his son "just wants to invent good things for mankind" — we can hope that the police reaction won't dissuade the talented young creator from making good on his dream.
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