Weapon Skill Question

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Weapon Skill Question
 Asura.Alexandero
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By Asura.Alexandero 2015-08-22 14:18:40
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Hey guys, just came back for the campaign and I'm hooked again. I know that DRKs don't really get much love these days but I have no issues starting my own parties. Anywho, I've missed some of the past updates and the results so what weaponskills are we using these days (scythe and greatsword).

I've read alot of people in the Guide here talk about Torcleaver. If I remember right, it used to be resolution ftw 99% of the time. Is TC ahead of reso now? I have no relics, just put a +2 stone on McBain and got +100 Save TP but no damage increase. Since that is max save TP I'm iffy on whether to burn another stone to replace it with damage, thoughts?
 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-08-22 14:28:18
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Torcleaver is used for Light skillchains, skillchains in general were buffed a few months ago to be massively important now. Not only do they make up a large part of current party damage but Magic Bursts have shot up in strength making them even better. Resolution still does more pure damage but Torcleaver makes better skillchains which more than makes up for the damage loss.

Save TP won't beat Damage. With that aug you would get a +200 TP return on WSes guaranteed which isn't really that much more than you would get normally.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-08-22 15:08:16
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Great Sword and Scythe are both hurting pretty badly in the Skillchain department. GS can't do a multi-step SC without Ragnarok for a fusion linker and Scyth's multi-step needs Quietus which is horrible. Best your looking at is Torc -> Torc but even then it's a crap shoot vs just spamming Resolution. If your magic bursting your not going to be using DRK in the first place unfortunately.

Sucks that SE has broke this game so badly after having it semi-balanced for awhile.

For those interested here is the five step double dark SC for Scythe

Cross Reaper / Quietus (distortion) -> Insurgency (Fusion) -> Entropy (Gravitation) -> Cross Reaper / Quietus (Darkness) -> Quietus (Double Darkness)

Here is Great Sword, but it needs a Ragnarok

Resolution (Fragmentation) -> Torcleaver (Distortion) ->
Scourge (Fusion) -> Resolution (Light) ->
Torcleaver (Double Light)

Those two are your best bet for multi-step SC + MB though both have some deficiencies.
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 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-08-22 16:55:14
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Quote:
Great Sword and Scythe are both hurting pretty badly in the Skillchain department. GS can't do a multi-step SC without Ragnarok for a fusion linker and Scyth's multi-step needs Quietus which is horrible. Best your looking at is Torc -> Torc but even then it's a crap shoot vs just spamming Resolution. If your magic bursting your not going to be using DRK in the first place unfortunately.
Why? Geo fits into any melee setup in the game and definitely wants to be taking advantage of MBing off lights.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-08-22 17:34:37
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Asura.Failaras said: »
Quote:
Great Sword and Scythe are both hurting pretty badly in the Skillchain department. GS can't do a multi-step SC without Ragnarok for a fusion linker and Scyth's multi-step needs Quietus which is horrible. Best your looking at is Torc -> Torc but even then it's a crap shoot vs just spamming Resolution. If your magic bursting your not going to be using DRK in the first place unfortunately.
Why? Geo fits into any melee setup in the game and definitely wants to be taking advantage of MBing off lights.

Because DRK sucks at setting up and executing SC's that's why. The buffs required for a melee setup and not the same as a SC MB setup and the SC MB buffs scale much higher then melee ones. The damage a melee does, even if buffed, is pitiful to what is possible with magic. You can thank mRatio not having a known cap while pDiff has a rather low one. Focus / Accumen + Malaise will do ridiculous thinks to any magic damage output, so ridiculous that Infernal Scythe or Herc Slash becomes your absolute best WS. HS -> HS makes fragmentation, IS doesn't really make anything and both pale compared to what COR's and RNG's get. Heck WAR is in a far better position for that.

I noticed that on WAR, doing Cloud Splitter -> Cloud Splitter did far more damage under those buffs then anything related to Great Axe, Great Sword or even Sword, and IS would be better due to Pixie Hairpin +1 and that Ring.

Try to think of GEO is a portable miniature primeval brew dispensing machine. Monsters evasion / defense also scales far higher then it's magic evasion / magic defense making the latter easier to buff / debuff around. We can thank SE for going full retard and giving ***1300~1400 evasion, 1500+ defense with aoe paralyze, petrify, silence, slow, multiple dispel, curse, doom, death, gravity, HP down, massive defenes down, massive magic defense down, massive attack down and so forth.
 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-08-22 17:41:34
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The point is that if you are doing a melee setup, which should include a Geo, you will benefit from MBing off SCs. This means that yes you will be magic bursting if you have a Drk, you won't be using a setup based around MBing but you still will be doing it.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-08-22 17:53:15
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Asura.Failaras said: »
The point is that if you are doing a melee setup, which should include a Geo, you will benefit from MBing off SCs. This means that yes you will be magic bursting if you have a Drk, you won't be using a setup based around MBing but you still will be doing it.

Single DD setups? Your wasting your time bringing a DRK for that. SAM, WAR and BLU are far far better, even DRG makes for a good multi-step light SC. Multiple DD setups? You can forget about any real SC / MB because the WS barrage will negate the SC windows.

So the only situation I can see it being worth a damn to bring a DRK would be doing Tojil or other "screw off" content where you don't really need to exploit any particular weakness or game mechanic.

Again this isn't because of a problem with DRK, but with SE's screwing with monsters and making them extremely melee, especially DRK, unfriendly.
 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-08-22 18:34:01
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So your posting on a Drk forum, in a thread about a guy asking a question about Drk, where he specifically says he is okay building his own groups, and are saying bring Sam, War, or Blu. No one would debate you that Drk isn't a good DD currently, that doesn't change any of the things I've said however.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-22 19:38:37
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Asura.Failaras said: »
So your posting on a Drk forum, in a thread about a guy asking a question about Drk, where he specifically says he is okay building his own groups, and are saying bring Sam, War, or Blu. No one would debate you that Drk isn't a good DD currently, that doesn't change any of the things I've said however.


To be fair, "change to WAR or MNK" was a reasonable solution for any question asked in the DRK and SAM forum in the abby era.

"Should I use KO or Byrnie +1 for Fudo?"
"Change to WAR"
"SAM sucks"
"git gud"
etc
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [71 days between previous and next post]
 Asura.Ganno
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By Asura.Ganno 2015-11-01 06:43:08
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Hello everyone,
Who has recently used scythe ws and what are the ones to use?
It would be nice if anyone has some ws dmg numbers or screenshots to put in here.

Thank you.
 Asura.Ajirha
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By Asura.Ajirha 2015-11-02 04:24:27
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1 : Probably not many ppl because TownKnight

2 : Probably even less ppl using scyth because usually the GS will outparse the scyth by quite a lot (resolution and torcleaver)

3 : if you still persist in your error :D, then the merit WS will probably be your best bet along with the good old guillotine (granted you dont lack acc) and the insurgency (mythic ws). havent tried the magic ws from empy weapon, cant say much for it if good or bad.

4 : unasked for advice : pick another job to enjoy the game untill they change the ftp of 2h weaponskills (aside from sam) to match the output of the 1h ones. or use a one hand sword, /war and spam savage blade and use a blurred shield in the offhand
 Quetzalcoatl.Orestes
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By Quetzalcoatl.Orestes 2015-11-02 09:41:27
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Asura.Ganno said: »
Hello everyone,
Who has recently used scythe ws and what are the ones to use?
It would be nice if anyone has some ws dmg numbers or screenshots to put in here.

Thank you.

Cross Reaper is your best WS option with a Scythe, unless you have Liberator. Even then, they are both very close. Xreaper isn't the most consistent WS in the world, but it will spike high often enough. (note, this is just ws damage, and not skillchain properties)

I don't generally take screenshots of anything, but Insurgency with Liberator averages about 8-10k on something like Putraxia / Palloritus. Highs peak around 15k.

Otherwise, most scythe ws lack really good sc options. With AM3 up, you can self double-dark (xreaper > entropy > quietus) but otherwise scythe could use a little help with ftp mods, etc.
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By Lakshmi.Lenus 2015-11-02 10:11:21
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Apocalypse is a very good weapon. I used to eat rag drks for breakfast, lunch and dinner back in the VW era! ! !1 111
 Asura.Ganno
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By Asura.Ganno 2015-11-02 16:52:43
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Cool thanks for replies.
I do have Apoc, i'll play with this and unlock those ws and give it a try at Xreaper , thank you!
Saevel suggested me in game to do drain on a darkness also :)

@Ajirha: i have fun playing drk, im just looking to enjoy the game on drk even more :)
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-11-02 19:05:15
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Apparently my post got ate.

For pure DPS it is greatsword spaming Resolution or Torcleaver. For multi-step light SC's it's using Ragnarok, for multi-step dark SC's it's using Scyth. Other then Liberator Scyth really falls behind GS, and Liberator only wins because there isn't a Mythic GS for AM3 silliness.

Light : Resolution -> Torcleaver -> Scourge -> Resolution -> Torcleaver

Dark : CR -> Insurgency -> Entropy -> CR -> Quietus

Side note, with the HP bonus from Drain II/III now lasting 3 min you can do some really cool stuff. MB a DSNV Drain III off a dark SC and your looking at 4~5000+ HP. Turn on souleater and have a WHM cure bomb you.

For which WS is strongest,

GS: Resolution no question. The mechanics of fTP transfer and multi-attack procs have it beating Torc every time. That being said, Torc can make light with itself and depending those Light SC's might be worth more then loss in damage.

Scyth: This is difficult because they are all situational.

Quote:
Entropy: 1.075 = 4.3 85% INT

Quietus: 3.0 = 3.0 60% STR / MND, -15% defense (17% attack boost)

Cross Reaper: 3.5 60% STR / MND, scales up

Insurgency: 4.18 20% STR / INT, scales up

Entropy has the highest fTP, and because it copies multi-attack procs are worth a little more (1.075 vs 1.0). The mode sucks on it, INT is a horrible mod for a physical WS. You don't get Attack, Accuracy or fSTR out of it and all the heavy armor you would want to wear has high STR / VIT and not INT.

Insurgency is a mixed bag, it had potential but SE never raised it's mods so it doesn't scale well. Liberators work out only because they have a +30% WS damage on it.

Cross Reaper is actually pretty decent, especially since it scales really well with TP overflow. Having a 60% STR mod really helps scaling on it's damage, the 60% MND is meh but it gives it approximately the same total WSC as a 80~85% STR WS would have due to iLevel stat vomit.

Quietus, this WS had so much potential. The mods are the same as CR, so pretty solid there. The fTP is kinda low at 3.0 and the TP mod is essentially an attack bonus. SE should of raised it's ignore defense from 10/30/50 to 25/50/75 or raised it's fTP to 4.5+. Currently with TP moonshade your looking at 15% defense ignore which is the same as a 17.6% attack boost. Not strong enough to really make a difference on stuff where you'd want that. Quietus does make darkness though, so it's useful as a closer or to SC with others.

To compare with Cata since some of you are glued to your Apoc.

Catastrophe: 2.75 fTP, 40% STR / INT, absorbs HP.

With Apoc your looking at +40% damage which can be modeled as an fTP boost for 3.85 pseudo-fTP. Has darkness property like Quietus so can be used to double on a darkness SC.

All in all Scyth WS's have good SC properties but really bad damage. As the highest DMG weapons you would think that SE would focus on STR and big damage, but they seem hell bent on keeping them for CosPlay purposes.
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 Phoenix.Urteil
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By Phoenix.Urteil 2015-11-18 11:53:46
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Infernal Scythe is an often overlooked tool.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-11-18 21:38:30
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IS is just ... bad. The 25% attack down won't mean ***on anything it'll land on. Anything it will land on will won't be remotely dangerous in the first place. If it at least had a decent SC property then it could be useful for situations where your trying to MB with Malaise, otherwise it's just another wasted opportunity. If you want to see an example of a good Magic melee WS, look at Cloudsplitter or Herculean slash. Herc slash at least SC's with itself to make Fragmentation.
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By Asura.Tigredor 2015-11-19 10:57:53
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Phoenix.Urteil said: »
Infernal Scythe is an often overlooked tool.

Elaboration please?
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