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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-14 21:46:55
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Really? Are you just now tossing words together and trying to sound smart?

That's kind of a mean thing to say. What Jassik was really trying to get across was that you can do a lot of tax evading if you have proper synergy in your portfolio. When you're borrowing against trusts, you have the ability to bypass capital gains taxes by leveraging stock options against net income. It gets even more complicated when you factor in the p/e ratio, because then you can use your trial balance to write off sunk costs from inventory obsolescence. If your deferred income hits the breakeven point, then your accrued expenses are not subject to the same taxes as a non-incorporated business.

Come on, King. I got my accounting degree from a guy who lives in the alley behind the local IHOP and even I know this stuff.
What's sad is that the two people who gave you [+] doesn't understand that you were being sarcastic.

Asura.Wormfeeder said: »
It isnt tax evasion if you are going by the rules and loop holes the irs sets out every year. If you read all the tax laws most people would be guilty of some tax crime or another, unless you had a good cpa to steer you away from such mistakes.

People keep saying "loophole" without actually pointing one out. When I ask people to show me a tax "loophole" (by definition a loophole is something that the law did not intend to create) nobody can answer that but continue to state that it exists.

So, why not tell us what sort of tax loophole exists, please.

Odin.Jassik said: »
Avoidance means working the system to minimize your tax burden.
So, are you saying that it is a bad thing to take advantage of the tax deductions available to you? Guess what, I'm 100% positive that you take most deductions (if not all) available to you when paying your tax. So, hypocrite says what again?

Odin.Jassik said: »
Generally, what shifts it from avoidance to evasion is when you don't report or misreport.
Holy ***he is learning!

I didn't say anything about it being wrong for them to use the deductions they are allowed, I said it was *** that the system allows them to.

Never said loophole and I never accused them of breaking the law, bubba.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-14 22:16:25
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Odin.Jassik said: »
I didn't say anything about it being wrong for them to use the deductions they are allowed, I said it was *** that the system allows them to.
So, you aren't saying that it's wrong to use the laws to your own advantage, instead you are saying it's wrong to use the laws to your own advantage.....wait, what?

Let's read that again, shall we?

Odin.Jassik said: »
I didn't say anything about it being wrong for them to use the deductions they are allowed, I said it was *** that the system allows them to.
Yup, that's what you said alright....

Odin.Jassik said: »
Never said loophole and I never accused them of breaking the law, bubba.
Good, because I wasn't addressing you when I was replying to a specific person. I guess you really need some reading comprehension. Or at least understand that the person I'm quoting directly above a response is who I am referring to in my response....
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-14 22:24:32
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
I didn't say anything about it being wrong for them to use the deductions they are allowed, I said it was *** that the system allows them to.
So, you aren't saying that it's wrong to use the laws to your own advantage, instead you are saying it's wrong to use the laws to your own advantage.....wait, what?

Let's read that again, shall we?

Odin.Jassik said: »
I didn't say anything about it being wrong for them to use the deductions they are allowed, I said it was *** that the system allows them to.
Yup, that's what you said alright....

Odin.Jassik said: »
Never said loophole and I never accused them of breaking the law, bubba.
Good, because I wasn't addressing you when I was replying to a specific person. I guess you really need some reading comprehension. Or at least understand that the person I'm quoting directly above a response is who I am referring to in my response....

I was advocating getting private money out of politics. Why do you feel the need to turn any discussion involving money into sideshow of tax law? Is it specifically so you can try and bully people around with your amazing knowledge about something besides pokemon?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-14 22:30:08
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
I didn't say anything about it being wrong for them to use the deductions they are allowed, I said it was *** that the system allows them to.
So, you aren't saying that it's wrong to use the laws to your own advantage, instead you are saying it's wrong to use the laws to your own advantage.....wait, what?

Let's read that again, shall we?

Odin.Jassik said: »
I didn't say anything about it being wrong for them to use the deductions they are allowed, I said it was *** that the system allows them to.
Yup, that's what you said alright....

Odin.Jassik said: »
Never said loophole and I never accused them of breaking the law, bubba.
Good, because I wasn't addressing you when I was replying to a specific person. I guess you really need some reading comprehension. Or at least understand that the person I'm quoting directly above a response is who I am referring to in my response....

I was advocating getting private money out of politics. Why do you feel the need to turn any discussion involving money into sideshow of tax law? Is it specifically so you can try and bully people around with your amazing knowledge about something besides pokemon?
Sure, flail away. Because you were talking about how the poor illegal immigrants were paying federal income taxes when I had to correct you. Or are you saying that wasn't what was being talked about?

What is your aggression against me? Hate being proven wrong when I source my arguments? We are all still waiting for you to provide us with that unbiased, professional source of yours since, what, last page?

Love the insults by the way. I'm sure if reported, it will be ignored like usual.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-14 22:42:16
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
I didn't say anything about it being wrong for them to use the deductions they are allowed, I said it was *** that the system allows them to.
So, you aren't saying that it's wrong to use the laws to your own advantage, instead you are saying it's wrong to use the laws to your own advantage.....wait, what?

Let's read that again, shall we?

Odin.Jassik said: »
I didn't say anything about it being wrong for them to use the deductions they are allowed, I said it was *** that the system allows them to.
Yup, that's what you said alright....

Odin.Jassik said: »
Never said loophole and I never accused them of breaking the law, bubba.
Good, because I wasn't addressing you when I was replying to a specific person. I guess you really need some reading comprehension. Or at least understand that the person I'm quoting directly above a response is who I am referring to in my response....

I was advocating getting private money out of politics. Why do you feel the need to turn any discussion involving money into sideshow of tax law? Is it specifically so you can try and bully people around with your amazing knowledge about something besides pokemon?
Sure, flail away. Because you were talking about how the poor illegal immigrants were paying federal income taxes when I had to correct you. Or are you saying that wasn't what was being talked about?

What is your aggression against me? Hate being proven wrong when I source my arguments? We are all still waiting for you to provide us with that unbiased, professional source of yours since, what, last page?

Love the insults by the way. I'm sure if reported, it will be ignored like usual.

No, I was talking about getting private money out of politics. Nausi asked me if I have a problem with illegals sending money home because they are also taking money out of the economy. I said I would rather give them a way to pay taxes, which the rich are working hard to avoid paying. You dreamed up the rest, and you can backread if you still don't understand the conversation prior to your tantrum.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-14 22:43:56
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Yup, flailing it is.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-08-15 10:05:05
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Yup, flailing it is.
Failing about talking about Trump too.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-15 10:07:10
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Yup, flailing it is.
Failing about talking about Trump too.
How so?

Taxes is one of the issues Trump is running on, but in order to actually understand what he is talking about, one must understand what taxes are.

If you want to call his viewpoints on taxation HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, you are not going to get an argument out of me, because it is.

Also, welcome to internet discussion where topics can change somewhat and still be relevant to the main topic at hand.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-08-15 11:17:34
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What are Trump's viewpoints on taxation?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-15 11:50:16
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
What are Trump's viewpoints on taxation?
4 brackets: 1-5-10-15%.
1 time 14.25% tax on wealthy.
Asset tax over $10 million, paid over 10 years.

For one thing, those brackets are way too low, a lot of things are not going to be funded that way, hell, you cannot even fund the defense budget that way.

The one-time tax is ludicrous, we all know the federal government is greedy as ***.

Asset tax is the same as value added tax, which itself is another "tax on the rich" scheme liberals like to use. Trump himself suggesting it baffles my mind.

These are the key points he makes, but either way, it's not feasible at all...
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-15 11:53:48
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However, it will make most of America finally pay an income tax. Problem is, if not done correctly, children will have to pay an income tax on their parents earnings (aka by way of Kiddy Tax laws)
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-08-15 12:47:36
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Yeah those numbers seem a little bit low. I understand wanting to lower income tax for lower income people, but 15% as the highest bracket seems way too low. Idk about the asset tax.

I think Trump needs to hire someone to figure out a better method on this issue.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-08-15 14:17:36
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
4 brackets: 1-5-10-15%.
1 time 14.25% tax on wealthy.
Asset tax over $10 million, paid over 10 years.

For one thing, those brackets are way too low, a lot of things are not going to be funded that way, hell, you cannot even fund the defense budget that way.

You think taxes are too low? Of course you would, you conservative partisan hack.

Wait, no... something isn't right here....
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By Teumessianfox 2015-08-15 15:33:02
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All I can say is that Trump will not win. He dug his grave for himself and his toupee.....with a silver spade! :p
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-15 19:37:26
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Idk about the asset tax.
Value Added Taxes is just an excise tax that will snowball itself into destroying the economy. Don't believe me, just look at France.

Governments are greedy as ***, more so because they can get away with it until a revolution occurs. I for one do not want to see the American Revolution Part 2 in my lifetime, nor in my niece/nephew's lifetime.

Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
4 brackets: 1-5-10-15%.
1 time 14.25% tax on wealthy.
Asset tax over $10 million, paid over 10 years.

For one thing, those brackets are way too low, a lot of things are not going to be funded that way, hell, you cannot even fund the defense budget that way.

You think taxes are too low? Of course you would, you conservative partisan hack.

Wait, no... something isn't right here....
I think anything below 28% maximum rate is unsustainable for this country. Even without deductions. And, regardless of what people make you believe, all ordinary marginal income tax rates for the wealthy cannot go below 28%, thanks to AMT. Only people who have no ordinary income (meaning that they did not work at all, and the only income they have are qualified dividends and capital gains) would pay less than the 28%, but even then their rates are stuck at 20% before any deductions are allowed, and even those deductions are limited.

All this does not include Obamacare either.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-08-15 19:52:01
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I for one do not want to see the American Revolution Part 2 in my lifetime
The possibility is definitely there. Or WWIII, take your pick.
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-08-15 22:14:47
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Teumessianfox said: »
All I can say is that Trump will not win. He dug his grave for himself and his toupee.....with a silver spade! :p
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By Lakshmi.Deces 2015-08-16 11:15:35
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All I know is 2 terms of obama has been too much.
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By Lakshmi.Deces 2015-08-16 11:51:36
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
What are Trump's viewpoints on taxation?
4 brackets: 1-5-10-15%.
1 time 14.25% tax on wealthy.
Asset tax over $10 million, paid over 10 years.

For one thing, those brackets are way too low, a lot of things are not going to be funded that way, hell, you cannot even fund the defense budget that way.

The one-time tax is ludicrous, we all know the federal government is greedy as ***.

Asset tax is the same as value added tax, which itself is another "tax on the rich" scheme liberals like to use. Trump himself suggesting it baffles my mind.

These are the key points he makes, but either way, it's not feasible at all...
I think his plan would be near feasible if such things were taken into account such as, 1) Tariffs would bring boat loads of money from American companies who have slave labor as their bottom line in other counties, in time driving manufacturing jobs back into where they belong. Thus allowing millions of Americans to actually have a life and contribute to society & it's debts.

2) Build an physical border that would be for the most part a one time investment, rather than every year employing thousands of worthless border patrol agents who hand out water & bologna sandwiches to illegals. Ending this anchor baby nonsense would remove a lot of incentive for the illiterate people who have no respect for this nation & for which it stand. Saving untold 10's if not hundreds of millions in tax payers money for education. That alone could pay for a border wall in a decade.

3) Trade deals, that is a given those deals were written not with Americans (other than a handful) best intentions.


4) Or we can continue as we are, start a World War & killing off millions living here effectively hitting the rest button.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-16 14:06:15
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Lakshmi.Deces said: »
1) Tariffs would bring boat loads of money from American companies who have slave labor as their bottom line in other counties, in time driving manufacturing jobs back into where they belong. Thus allowing millions of Americans to actually have a life and contribute to society & it's debts.
So, you want to start paying more for American made products? By all means, go ahead and start doing it.

Most everyone else will not agree with you.

Lakshmi.Deces said: »
2) Build an physical border that would be for the most part a one time investment, rather than every year employing thousands of worthless border patrol agents who hand out water & bologna sandwiches to illegals. Ending this anchor baby nonsense would remove a lot of incentive for the illiterate people who have no respect for this nation & for which it stand. Saving untold 10's if not hundreds of millions in tax payers money for education. That alone could pay for a border wall in a decade.

You have no clue as how much immigration has helped this country. Hell, by "physically" keeping the immigrants out, you still have not even come close to solving the real problem, which is the rampant crime that immigration (legal or not) brings with it.

Lakshmi.Deces said: »
3) Trade deals, that is a given those deals were written not with Americans (other than a handful) best intentions.
I don't understand, you want to get rid of trade deals? If so, how is any of these trade deals, as you put it, not in America's best interest?

Lakshmi.Deces said: »
4) Or we can continue as we are, start a World War & killing off millions living here effectively hitting the rest button.

Going by your post, you wish for a xenophobic America, cut off from the rest of the world. I hate to break it to you bub, but in today's global economy, by doing that would make America into a 3rd world country. We do not have the means to survive at our level of consumption. A lot of our products are imported not because of "cheap labor" (it's a good reason, but not the main reason) but because we don't have the resources on hand to produce that product, nor the materials (newsflash, most materials "made in America" are imported, but assembled in America to have that stamp on it...) to survive.

We have abundant food and metals, and enough energy to survive, but nothing else. We may be able to create our own building materials for a while, but at the level of growth we have been sustaining for the past few decades, we would run out of those very quickly.

And that's basically it. Everything else we use is generally imported.

What you are demanding is economic suicide.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-08-16 14:36:57
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
medals
I think America can do without medals



although it would definitely need metals.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-16 17:00:33
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
medals
I think America can do without medals



although it would definitely need metals.
Well, thanks for correcting my mistake.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-08-16 19:34:11
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Lakshmi.Deces said: »
1) Tariffs would bring boat loads of money from American companies who have slave labor as their bottom line in other counties, in time driving manufacturing jobs back into where they belong. Thus allowing millions of Americans to actually have a life and contribute to society & it's debts.
So, you want to start paying more for American made products? By all means, go ahead and start doing it.
Here I thing Deces means stuff made in foreign countries by "American" companies.

I don't think we can do anything tarifish to stuff made in our sweatshop territories, Northern Marianas, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and American Samoa. And thanks to a broad bipartisan effort we can't organize any kind of minimum wage there either.

Quote:
Lakshmi.Deces said: »
2) Build an physical border that would be for the most part a one time investment, rather than every year employing thousands of worthless border patrol agents who hand out water & bologna sandwiches to illegals. Ending this anchor baby nonsense would remove a lot of incentive for the illiterate people who have no respect for this nation & for which it stand. Saving untold 10's if not hundreds of millions in tax payers money for education. That alone could pay for a border wall in a decade.

You have no clue as how much immigration has helped this country. Hell, by "physically" keeping the immigrants out, you still have not even come close to solving the real problem, which is the rampant crime that immigration (legal or not) brings with it.
Also no clue to what kind of physical barriers could work nor what they would cost. Let alone how effective they could be.

I will point out that drug smugglers use tunnels, catapults, and hang gliders.

Quote:
Lakshmi.Deces said: »
3) Trade deals, that is a given those deals were written not with Americans (other than a handful) best intentions.
I don't understand, you want to get rid of trade deals? If so, how is any of these trade deals, as you put it, not in America's best interest? ....

Going by your post, you wish for a xenophobic America, cut off from the rest of the world. I hate to break it to you bub, but in today's global economy, by doing that would make America into a 3rd world country. We do not have the means to survive at our level of consumption. A lot of our products are imported not because of "cheap labor" (it's a good reason, but not the main reason) but because we don't have the resources on hand to produce that product, nor the materials (newsflash, most materials "made in America" are imported, but assembled in America to have that stamp on it...) to survive.

We have abundant food and metals, and enough energy to survive, but nothing else. We may be able to create our own building materials for a while, but at the level of growth we have been sustaining for the past few decades, we would run out of those very quickly.

And that's basically it. Everything else we use is generally imported.

What you are demanding is economic suicide.
Why is that King? Why are most things imported? Could it have anything with free trade agreements offshoring our jobs and helping hollow out the middle class? Possibly even with St. Ronald the President singly handedly changing us from the largest creditor in the world to the largest debtor in the world?

We exported raw materials. I saw when I was working in leather. Italians and Japanese would come over here and buy raw hides while American tanneries closed down.

Lumbermill jobs.... In the 1980s I watched plywood from Korea being unloaded in Seattle. Funny thing about Korea, Japan logged it BALD in WWII, its still illegal to cut a tree down there.

They had to buy the logs, and we sold the logs to them.

And now the powers that be want to export crude. They have been shutting down refineries BTW.

Another one of the things I have been saying for years: "There are those in this country that want to make it a third world nation. The richest, best armed third world nation there ever was, but a third world nation nonetheless."
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-16 20:12:48
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Lakshmi.Deces said: »
2) Build an physical border that would be for the most part a one time investment, rather than every year employing thousands of worthless border patrol agents who hand out water & bologna sandwiches to illegals. Ending this anchor baby nonsense would remove a lot of incentive for the illiterate people who have no respect for this nation & for which it stand. Saving untold 10's if not hundreds of millions in tax payers money for education. That alone could pay for a border wall in a decade.

Besides the fact that it wouldn't work, they go over, around, and under the wall sections that already exist. It wouldn't be a one time investment, it would take tons of maintenance. It also wouldn't reduce the need for border patrols. "Show me a 10 foot fence and I'll show you an 11 foot ladder"...

The rest of your statement is incredibly offensive and misplaced. MOST of the people coming across the border are neither illiterate nor from Mexico.
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By Jetackuu 2015-08-16 20:16:57
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Lakshmi.Deces said: »
2) Build an physical border that would be for the most part a one time investment, rather than every year employing thousands of worthless border patrol agents who hand out water & bologna sandwiches to illegals. Ending this anchor baby nonsense would remove a lot of incentive for the illiterate people who have no respect for this nation & for which it stand. Saving untold 10's if not hundreds of millions in tax payers money for education. That alone could pay for a border wall in a decade.

Besides the fact that it wouldn't work, they go over, around, and under the wall sections that already exist. It wouldn't be a one time investment, it would take tons of maintenance. It also wouldn't reduce the need for border patrols. "Show me a 10 foot fence and I'll show you an 11 foot ladder"...

The rest of your statement is incredibly offensive and misplaced. MOST of the people coming across the border are neither illiterate or from Mexico.

Not to mention that the crack about "anchor babies" is about as Un-American as it gets, then again the whole anti-immigration stance is, including the "herpaderp they must lern engrish" bit.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-16 20:26:42
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
Why is that King? Why are most things imported? Could it have anything with free trade agreements offshoring our jobs and helping hollow out the middle class? Possibly even with St. Ronald the President singly handedly changing us from the largest creditor in the world to the largest debtor in the world?
Chanti, this is where we stop you from your crazy dementia and try to bring you back to the real world.

This is not a political issue. I don't care how you want to spin it, America is not as full of resources as you would like for us to think it is.

Or do you want us to go to a xenophobic America like crazy-guy up there? Have you even thought about it, what a xenophobic America would be like? Sure, we can grow most of our food and survive like that, but where will we get textiles from? Cotton is nice and all, but how can we grow both enough cotton and enough food for the whole nation? We don't even have enough farmers on hand to do that.

Then there are building materials. Sure, we can destroy forests to build for a year, and destroy another forest to build for another year, and so on/so forth. Eventually after a few years the first forest will grow back but our demand will just increase from there. Also, there isn't enough ore in the country to create the steel we will need for our growing society either.

Not to mention that a lot of our economy is international driven. We export more services than we import, so guess what, we just got a huge unemployment issue that cannot be immediately resolved.

Also, we just kicked out our foreign investments. So, there's more jobs that just went down the hole.

So, tell us how you expect us to survive as a xenophobic nation, shutting our borders completely down and destroying any and all trade between nations. You would have rioting in the streets by the end of the week when you do that!
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-08-16 20:36:55
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
We export more services than we import, so guess what, we just got a huge unemployment issue that cannot be immediately resolved.

So people in India call customer support and get us or what? What services are we exporting more of than we import?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-08-16 20:49:06
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
We export more services than we import, so guess what, we just got a huge unemployment issue that cannot be immediately resolved.

So people in India call customer support and get us or what? What services are we exporting more of than we import?
Well, since you don't know anything about businesses, I guess I can answer that for you.

USA exports a lot of research/development services, professional and trade services, and management services. June 2015 showed that US exported $61 billion in services alone, and only imported $41.4 billion

Services are the only thing we really export, we import a lot of real and tangible goods.

I guess you learned something today.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-08-16 20:52:33
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Only the 'good' ones can come back.

Quote:
Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump wants more than a wall to keep out immigrants living in the country illegally. He also wants to end "birthright citizenship" for their children, he said Sunday. And he would rescind Obama administration executive orders on immigration and toughen deportation, allowing in only "the good ones."

Trump described his expanded vision of how to secure American borders during a wide-ranging interview Sunday on NBC's "Meet The Press," saying that he would push to end the constitutionally protected citizenship rights of children of any family living illegally inside the U.S.

"They have to go," Trump said, adding: "What they're doing, they're having a baby. And then all of a sudden, nobody knows...the baby's here."

Native-born children of immigrants — even those living illegally in the U.S. — have been automatically considered American citizens since the adoption of the 14th amendment of the U.S. Constitution in 1868.

The odds of repealing the amendment's citizenship clause would be steep, requiring the votes of two-thirds of both houses of Congress and support from three-fourths of the nation's state legislatures. Republicans in Congress have pushed without success to repeal that provision since 2011.

"They're illegal," Trump said, describing native-born children of people living illegally in the US. "You either have a country or not."

Trump's remarks came as his campaign website posted his program for "immigration reform." Among its details: Making Mexico pay for a permanent border wall. Mandatory deportation of all "criminal aliens." Tripling the force of immigration officers by eliminating tax credit payments to immigrant families residing illegally in the U.S.

He said that families with U.S.-born children could return quickly if deemed worthy by the government. "We're going to try and bring them back rapidly, the good ones," he said, adding: "We will expedite it so people can come back in. The good people can come back."
Trump: Deport children of immigrants living illegally in US
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