The 6th Ministry's Secret: A Summoner's Guide (v2)

I use Caller's Sash and Mujin Obi as well - for a looooooong time.

They took it back a few days after.
In the end it was exactely like we always knew.
Skill ABOVE THE CAP is converted into acc/macc. We don't know the rate but whatever it is it's pretty close to 1:1.

Duration caps at 500? Didn't they further increase the "duration bonus from skill" a few patches ago? Or maybe it was lower than 500 before that...

Yeah turns out I was mixing things up in my memory.
Original post and following posts by Crevox, Byrth and other people.

I was just talking about physical BPs, NOT magical. My original argument was "wouldn't DA+, which works on all BPs, be overall better than Crit, which only works on a few?", turns out crit works on a large part of physical BPs, the majority of those worthy of being used tbf.

So yeah, for physical BPs Crit is overall likely better than.
Magical BPs never ever ever ever were addressed in the discussion, it was just my fault for mixing things up in my memory.
I apologize! Glad I managed to clear this up though ;)

Thank you for your feedback. I wish to clarify some things on the sets:
It's a valid option, but see my comment in the post regarding where there's some damage items for some slots but if the damage gain is small I prefer the accuracy gained through summoning skill instead, you can of course make high and low acc sets. Here is my quote for clarification:

It was as far as I knew always assumed smn skill helped both physical and magical accuracy, but same comment as above applies here, it's a valid choice but since the gain is so small I prefer to either make high and low acc sets or put the piece with more value. Again my quote in regards to that:

I can see I should've listed the items I meant by name, and that would've avoided confusion, my apologies for that, it wasn't meant as a complete every condition set tho, that takes a lot more work and will be in the guide.

I'm going to completely disagree with you here, each skill adds 1 second to wards, and that is always valuable. On top of that, you're hurting your max adding more beckoner's, it multiplies duration that it would've been, so more smn skill helps the set bonus too. That said, I'm not going to call you summoner hitler if you choose to go this route, do what makes you happy. Having the set bonus multiply duration more isn't without merit either, but I still prefer the method of trying to average activation rate with base duration value to get the best averages and maximums, and it would be interesting to have it completely mathed out, but this seemed best to me in forms of both maximums and consistency.

I have a pet haste set but I haven't had much use for it outside tping between magical pacts, I wanted to make a full one and list it as another set for when your pet is engaged only. My current one is a balance between haste and not sacrificing any perp or refresh. Also, with capped perp, there is no reason to not have avatar's favor active, at all times. You can test this yourself, favor only takes more perp cost if perp isn't capped. Why does it work that way? I don't know. But I'm not the only one to test and notice this. For idle/perp, I throw in favor too cuz it only costs 2 summoning skill to have the horn on, and no refresh is sacrificed. I do have a max favor set as well, and the times are rare when I use it, but having a non capped bonus on while your avatar out can't hurt, and can often help. As for the summoning skill apogee pumps, I find they help ward duration, tho making a +1 version for just that might be a bit much but if I had only a few things left to upgrade on summoner I definitely consider improving it. I do remember an update where the caps where changed, was 500 the old cap? I think it was. In any case I have tested and seen it affect ward duration up to 624 summoning skill so I know it helps.

Also thank you again for the feedback, I'll definitely make sure on those parts in the guide to include both points of view, and give people options rather than dictate I think that is important.

Oh I didn't hear that, that's good news. In that case I take back what I said about Kobo Obi, it's not so bad.

Hmm I have a vague recollection of this, did they change this? I've still never been able to see ward duration go up by swapping in more skill gear. Maybe I'm just not getting enough to increase duration by a full minute when I drop the Beckoner's gear... I'm going to have to re-test this.

You completely misread what I said. See discussion with Sechs above. I choose my words carefully. I didn't say skill beyond 500 isn't worth much, I said there was literally no point going past 500, because last time I tested it did nothing to increase duration. If that's changed, then I apologize.

I do have favor up at all times, but having favor up doesn't mean you have to idle in gear that maximizes favor. Most of the time you'd benefit much more from gear that maximizes avatar melee, or avatar damage taken, rather than getting 1 more tier of favor.

It's not about hurting, it's about opportunity cost. You're giving up a lot for that favor bonus, 17% pet haste among other things as I pointed out, and what is it actually getting you? What are you gaining by giving up those stats? I'm not saying avatar melee is in any way significant compared to Rage damage, but you're comparing favor to no favor, not favor to whatever you would have if you didn't prioritize favor.

Anyway, most of the rest of that feedback was based on some skill mechanics that have either apparently changed or that SE changed their story on. So please disregard, I'll have to reconsider my Ward build... Again...

I ran out of energies to find out my post earlier! xD No strength left to find this as well.
It was several patches ago.
They increased the cap at which skill affects duration of buffs.
Not sure if 500 is the NEW cap or the one before this patch though.
Leaning on the latter but I'm not sure, sorry.

You're quite right that in some situations the opportunity cost for having avatar haste instead of favor is relevant, and I do have a pet haste/refresh/perp set equipped for when the avatar is engaged, based in part on advice I got from another summoner here... I'm not sure if it was your or not :)

In any case, I agree just having favor set on all the time isn't good, I have a set for pet being engaged too, that does have pet haste in it. 4 sets can't hope to capture every situation and many important sets like a dt or cure set still missing, but I figured those were a good start for a few core sets.

So currently what I'm saying is that I have a set for idle/perp/refresh/favor and a different set for avatar engaged/pet haste/perp/refresh, another for pet DT, another for max favor, another for DT situations, another with flee boots and DT for pulling, another for fleet wind with herald's gaiters, another for in town movement, and so on.. and it gets very in depth and situational and I didn't feel there was time to write an entire huge section of the guide but there was time to fulfill someone's request of posting a few updated sets :)

Additionally and though this is a bit off topic I also feel the need to say it as preventative measure, I feel there's different play styles, and when discussing opportunity cost sometimes it can also come down to just player choices, and even opinion. I'd like to give people as many options as possible, as people like choices. It is by design part of the game, and lets people make things their own and gives it meaning to them. It can come into conflict with what is best for X for Y situation, and to be honest that is what drove me away from here before, it was just too much unpleasantness and arguing and as a ls friend put it, like a reality tv show and personally I don't think that is a good thing. I like to leave people choice because choice can lead to creativity which can lead to invention, and when that happens it can come back and be shared with the community and we all benefit. Some people get mad or even upset if told for example their long loved and hard earned gear of choice isn't best anymore, or isn't good as other options, etc. It gets really touchy and emotionally charged talking about gear sometimes, even political with people belonging to camps and trying to turn others to their way of thinking and I wish it weren't so. I'm not sure what to do about it to be honest. If it is too bad I'll probably just become a hermit again, I got enough I'm trying to do in life and in game that politics and trying to change peoples minds in what I do for fun, there isn't room for it. My only desired role here is to inform at least on objective things and on non objective or where others feel there's controversy show both sides fairly and leave choices, and in doing so, learn myself.


Sorry you have to do that but maybe you can have some fun in it :) I'm still not sure without testing some of the debuff wards what the best for every debuff ward would even be, aerial armor should be tested too, to see if a ton of skill adds beyond 4 shadows... does smn skill add duration on debuffs or potency? If not would equipping mab for things like somnolence be better? So many questions we don't even know a good answer too in my opinion. So spoiler, those are some of the things I want to test next though if someone beats me to it that'd be fine too.

I see alot of people mentioning the use of the skll sash for magic accuracy or accuracy. Wouldn't Incarnation Sash be better in that regard?

Yea that's a good point, I'll change the rage sets to have that instead. I actually have one just didn't use it for some reason, well one reason was we didn't know how much smn skill affected it and it cut on inventory, but we know it's less than 1 at least now. Thank you for your feedback. I also clarified caller's sash and mujin obi by name as alternatives when accuracy is not needed.

Yup. 15 to both is better than the highest skill in that slot. And while crit is better than DA, DA ain't gonna hurt your phys BPs.

Also: ward duration was changed to capping at.... Um... It was either 550, 575 (favor's last tier after 512, so worthless to gear for when you can easily keep haste/refresh in a 512 set... But loose basically all of it for a measly 5 DEF.), or 600 (Alexander).
Ward duration has been capped at 500 for forever and a day now.
But I honestly don't recall which of those three they changed it to.

@Verda: Wouldn't speaker's ring be worthwhile in the Magic BP set?

I use it in mine.

If you don't believe me then you can test it. Even removing all but one beckoner's piece (remove body, put convokers+1 head on) so I'm sure it doesn't mess with timers, and slowly removing gear and recasting until hastega II duration is reported below 8min by SE timers works, as well as does using a timer and starting it when using the ward and stopping it when the timer changes to 7 minutes in the display over multiple tests, as well as does timing the entire length of the pact, which I did before SE timers were used which I had also posted, and sometime before I shared the discovery and screen shot that the empy set bonus works on sometimes increasing ward duration, and had some of you help me test it, which were both after I shared they level ? holy working 100% of the time on fodder in level 126 incursion, and the defense value of shining ruby added to bg-wiki (which it is a 25/256 so about 10% boost applied after protect and on high def players can add more defense than protect V). If you doubt those can test them too. To your credit though you were the first I saw explain that with capped perp there was no cost for favor. The favor tiers on the bg-wiki page though should list one more tier for those with the 550 gift, horn +3, and over 575 skill, and more doesn't help for favor. Titan's favor for example can give 102 defense and Diabolos 8 refresh. I added it once but someone reformatted it and excluded that info.

Simple answer yes, if you don't need accuracy. Long answer, those sets don't cover all situations it was put together for the purpose of posting some sets for the person that asked, but to be complete it should mention that and many other missing pieces for acc (mostly) and damage as an option, I use it in mine too but I have orvail ring atm instead of Thurandaut Ring for crafting hq more often since I'm making them for myself and didn't change evoker's. Evoker's though will add magic accuracy, so one should be for an acc magic bp set and one should be in a pure damage when you aren't concerned with resists. There are more pieces for this for an accuracy focused set as well, this was just a hybrid one put together and doesn't cover everything. If you're magic bursting on high end targets, it can lead to a dps increase to change more than just the ring and waist but I figured this was balanced grabbing pieces where the stat is in larger quantity considering it's use, though it is a hard call on some since summoning skill's exact ratio to accuracy is still unknown, a lot of summoning skill is something a summoner can't go wrong investing in either. DD always have accuracy sets for good reason, so do mages with magic accuracy sets. Often high acc, mid acc, and low acc where all your damage pieces are. Summoning shouldn't be any different and your accuracy vs damage should relate to the accuracy requirements of your target because accuracy is almost always the biggest way to increase damage unless it is capped. The first resist rate is 1/2, so considering 6 mab vs a chance at half damage is an easy comparison but it will depend on your target. Apogee mitts +1 for example are an amazing accuracy piece, and I have some NQ version that I use when doing puppets in peril magic bursts without a geo around or doing t2 reisenjima mobs with only a sch to duo with.

I'll add that as an option btw thank you for your feedback. I don't want to make it too in depth yet though, there's a lot to cover that is missing, not just acc vs damage, 3-4 sets can't hope to cover summoner.

500 hasn't been capping Ward duration since the April update of last year.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/46253-dev1258-Job-Adjustments?highlight=Blood+Pact%3A+Ward

Not sure if a new cap has been found, but I'm pretty sure it's not in the 500's.

ty

Wondering what sort of sets people are using for magic accuracy against Escha/Reisin NMs. I seem to get resisted alot even using food, having GEO debuffs, etc.

ItemSet 342273
Changes I know I need to make for magic accuracy are adding Vox Grip and Incarnation Sash. It's the other slots I'm iffy on since the only other magic acc pieces that come to mind are augmented merlinic/helios. Also curious as to whats probably worth switching out first. I also have an Espiritus with Skill/M.acc augment that I could potentially use.

Grioalovr - BPdmg +7, Pet:INT +15, M.acc +1, MAB +21
Helios band - BPdmg +6, crit +2, MAB +30
Merlinic Dastanas - BPdmg +10, MAB +20
Helios Spats - BPdmg +5, crit +4, MAB +28
Hagondes Sabots +1 - pet mab +23

In other news, this WKR campaign is awesome. Had a 5 min solo fight with Kumhao where I dropped him from 100~12% in the first minute of the fight. I got lucky cuz he didn't use Polar Roar for aura until 4%.

88% damage solo without Astral Conduit? D:

No, with lol. Used conduit and Ability recast triggered in the midst of it.

I use a pretty basic setup with a lot of Helios gear (augmented with up to 8 skill and 30 pet:macc each). Merlinic can be decent, but I think Helios wins in this set.

ItemSet 342282

I think the biggest issue in your set is that very few of your pieces actually boost magic accuracy at all. Both your earrings, Speaker's Ring, Convoker's Doublet, are all useless. None of the augments on your Helios appear to be useful for debuffs. I suggest obtaining another set of Helios to get debuff augments on. Don't try to use the same piece of Helios for both Rage & Ward. Make two pieces, or three. Or four! I have four pairs of Helios Boots.


I loooove when that happens :D

Guess I should've specified that it was just for magic rage pacts. I kept seeing so many 1/2 resists, moreso on bursts it seemed. Haven't had much problem with wards at all, and of course, its a completely different set.

Might have figure out part of the reason I think I have accuracy issues on everything though. I've been in alot of CP parties this week and noticed BP numbers were all over the place on magic bursts. Come to find out, it was because the GEO wasn't taking actions on new mobs that were pulled into Malaise Luapons or getting enmity on the mob, which meant the Luapons had no effect.

As for Escha NMs, I seem to be fine on Kirin if it is properly debuffed. Wind Blade hit as high as 86k when Blaze of Glory was active, and between 30-50 when it wasn't. NM's in Reisinjima seem to give me the most problems on bursts though, especially Maju.

Some of those Reisenjima NMs have high MDB/MDT terms, or a high natural element resist.
Maxing out Macc/Meva and Acc++ should help you a lot. (I've been told Acc++ is Macc/Acc/Racc, but can't checkparam the Macc to be sure... And have never bothered to test it.)

As for gear, using something like a high augmented (4/4, 5/4, 4/5, 5/5 skill/BPdmg) JSE cape will help normalize damage and keep it high. (Instead of the MAB cape options, which lack Macc)
And something like Deino collar too would be good.
Either a good augmented Reisenjima staff or Espiritus B/C would help.
Just try to have more than 0 skill and Macc in your set.
Worse comes to worse, Espiritus B should give you close to a 0 resist rate.

Oops I misread your question then. In that case, your gear isn't too far from mine.

Vox Grip & Deino Collar will help. Conveyance can be better due to the skill like Fae mentioned. I've got Enticer's Pants with perfect aug which are great for damage but have the same magic acc as Helios so in terms of resists they should be equal. Honestly your gear has more magic acc than my magic BP gear because I'm using Espiritus instead of Grioavolr. (I need a second Grio, or an Oranyan to repurpose my current enhancing magic duration Grio...)

That said, I haven't had much issue with resists on harder content. Kirin, for example, I never hit less than 45k on first form and often 99k. I think a lot of that variation is more due to where in the burst order I land. Landing late often means 45-50k. Also two Idris GEOs helps in that regard. ;)

The only other thing I can think of is how are your job points / gifts? There's a lot of magic acc buried in those I think. Also, I use Rolanberry Daifuku for Kirin specifically, though I haven't had to use it elsewhere.

anyone know the lowest we can get bp recast to

30 Seconds.

lame wish they change that

Heh you and every other Summoner :) If there was not a cap I think we can get low 20's? I am not sure exactly how low it can go.

I'm on the final stretch of Gifts for SMN. I am currently at 1404. @1933 JP now. Only missing skill and the 1hr reduction. On job points themselves, I have everything capped except for Favor.

Kirin wasn't an issue for me last night as I did see bursts for up to 99,999. I used Rolanberry daifuku as well. GEO did have Idris.

Maju is what gives me so much damned trouble. I often magic burst for less damage than I would if I just not bursted at all due to the magic resist penalty for late bursts. I don't think any of the GEO in my current event shell have Idris though.

I completely forgot about that collar.

And BST can get a what 15sec Ready timer? Or is it 10? No MP cost. :|

BST is 10 secs, but to be fair its 10secs to regain a charge and some moves consume 2 or even 3 charges per use.

Playing both, its quite a culture-shock going to SMN's 30sec floor and I wish you could lower it further.

Don't forget apogee, in longer fights its the equivalent of like -4 seconds delay, or 7 for every 6. Unless you're saving it for a skillchain into mb, you should be riding that timer nonstop for damage.