The 6th Ministry's Secret: A Summoner's Guide (v2)

GEO is the person at fault a good amount of the time casting spells in non idris/dunna etc

Followed by COR not rolling in ring/neck/rostam

Not that I think it's your specific issue, it just happens way more than it ever should.

We recently tried to AFAC Flaming Crush Zerde with a low man group of 8, but failed at 14% remaining HP.

We saw a significant disparity in damage between the Nirvana summoner and the non-Nirvana summoners, and we're looking for some advice as to which way we should improve to bring the non-nirvana and nirvana pet damage together.

Here's the data we collected
Setup was PLD GEO(dunna) RDM(stunner) BRD(Gjallarhorn) SMN(Nirvana) SMN SMN COR(non-regal)

(These stats are with food, in Reisenjima, but not with the rolls for accuracy)
Nirvana SMN
Damage: 535,556 - Food: Grape Daifuku - Ifrit Acc: 1535 - Ifrit Attack: 1464 - FC Set BPD: 155 - FC Set MAB: 118
Other SMN
Damage: 320,731 - Food: Rolanberry Daifuku - Ifrit Acc: 1475 - Ifrit Attack: 1425 - FC Set BPD: 105 - FC Set MAB: 226
Pebbs SMN
Damage: 306,043 - Food: Grape Daifuku - Ifrit Acc: 1482 - Ifrit Attack: 1425 - FC Set BPD: 105 - FC Set MAB: 230

We do not have a log of the individual pet damage unfortunately, in hind sight we should have grabbed screenshots of the log at least.

COR: Rolls: PUP, Drachen, both 11, neither crooked
BRD: ES Fire Threnody II landed, and was on for 27 of the 30 seconds of the duration of the AF/AC run. No other spells Cast.
GEO: Bolster Geo-Malaise, Indi-Langour (No-entrust)

We saw 1 stun resisted, which dropped meteor on us, but otherwise Zerde didn't move during AF/AC.

This is my FC set, and is locked for the entire duration of the AF/AC burn:

I'm aware of some upgrades that can happen such as the Gelos earring (both us non-Nirvana SMNs are questing that this weekend).

We are trying to figure out if feet to Apogee Feet+1, and/or Apogee Body+1 would be a better route to go, or whether we need to work on AF+3 to improve damage on Zerde, or if there's something completely different we need to do.

Any advice would be appreciated.

So probably better to address one major problem with your strategy. I think you misunderstand how Flaming Crush deals damage. It is a hybrid ability so it functions both off of MAB and Attack.

I can't remember the accuracy requirements for Zerde precisely but you most like want PUP / Beast rolls and Geo-Malaise, Indi-Frailty + Dia II on Zerde. Perhaps a Distract and Indi-Torpor would assist too.

As for your gear. It has been awhile since I've focused on gearing my SMN but I am running Apogee Feet Path A and Apogee Legs Path D.

Given the damage totals, it doesn't seem like BP damage was anywhere close to what it should be for that (which is capped damage), but I'd also suspect that it has less to do with your SMNs and more to do with enfeebling.

First big thing is to consider using a RUN tank instead. They don't have to be decked out. The primary point is to get Rayke and Gambit on to greatly weaken him to fire damage. Odyllic Subterfuge isn't bad to pop either for avatar safety.

Second is that, as mentioned, it's a hybrid BP, so you need to drop his physical defense down too. Frailty over Languor as a primary bubble most likely.

I have never done Flaming Crush route myself for Zerde, but from what Ive heard they usually use 2 Geo's, Frail/Torpor Langour/Malaise.
Flaming Crush gains a lot from Frailty as well, since it's a Hybrid.

And if the Acc needed falls in the same range as Vini/Teles you need 1595 Acc Which might explain the lower dmg from the none nirvana smns,
since with none regal(+5?) Drachen roll 11, is 75Acc making them hit 1550 Acc which is under.

Yea, Flaming Crush still needs frailty and there's likely an accuracy issue. 1595 accuracy is correct.

Try changing to Bolster Frailty/Torpor. Beast/Drachen's roll and using Volt Strike. Change Fire Threnody II to Ltng. Threnody II. It should land with 5/5 Troubadour without needing elemental seal. The RDM after the stun on pop can either Stymie Frazzle3 for stun resistance or Stymie distract3 if you're still having accuracy issues, but they won't have much time to do anything else other than watch stun.

This is where you went wrong, a Run is not optional when you are flaming crushing Zerde. Rayke and gambit are a must you may need to bring brd for fire thernody II as well, unless your support is executed perfectly the flaming crush strat is risky it much easier to just mb it down but you'd still want a RUN.

I can provide some insight into how I handled a 6 man Zerde clear that I had added to the Zerde BG Wiki discussion page - note that no Gambit/Rayke was done:

---

Epeo RUN, 2xSMN, Idris GEO, BRD/BLM, COR (Regal Crooked Beast VI, normal Puppet roll IX)

It's tough to cram all you need in 6 people (with a COR leech/backup healer).

Place your Ifrits to the side of Zerde. Conal frontal attacks will amnesia Ifrit and you will receive "Player cannot perform that action"

ES Stun on BRD (use a good Macc set, ES alone won't let a Bard succeed).

Soul Voice Nitro Fire Threnody II, Bolster Geo-Frailty, Dia II, Light Shot, Impact, Indi-Malaise, can pre-buff tank with Indi-Langour if you'd like.

Dead by FC #6, FC doing 85-99k.

Time is the biggest concern here, as a BRD/BLM will not stun any second Just Desserts successfully.

Ignis Rayke/Gambit is useful but not used in this run due to time (it's all over in 30s). Also, Charm Buffer before fight may be smart vs. waiting for under 50%.

1.15M HP

---

Of course, I had the benefit of Rostam rolls and Idris and the HP of only 6 characters.

Parsing the two SMNs (one with BiS minus Nirvana, one with near BiS minus Nirvana/JSE+2 and using Apogee Head/AF+3 feet), there was a 5% difference in damage - 600k vs 536k, with one SMN capping damage at 99k each time and the other being 80k-99k.

To be honest, if you are only targeting Zerde, you can re-use your VS Head/Hands/Feet. Do remember you can quickly and cheaply change your Apogee Augment if you wanted to move your Head to path A.

Gear sets on the main SMN was:

Grioavolr
BPD+9~10, Pet: MAB 20+, Pet: MAcc 20+
Elan Strap +1
Sancus Sachet +1
C. Palug Crown
Con. Doublet +3
Merlinic Dastanas
BPD+9~10, Pet: MAB, Pet: Attack/STR
Apogee Slacks +1
Path D: Pet: STR+20 Pet: "Double Attack"+4% "Blood Pact" damage +14
Apogee Pumps +1
Path A: MP+80 Pet: "Mag. Atk. Bns."+35 "Blood Pact" damage +8
Adad Amulet (or JSE+2)
Gelos Earring
Lugalbanda Earring
Varar Ring +1
Varar Ring +1
Regal Belt
Campestres's Cape
Pet: Acc./Atk +20, Pet: Acc.+10, Pet: Regen+10

For me, the most useful thing (after wiping to Zerde 9 times with my 6 man attempt) was to record the run and have scoreboard running. It was due to that replay ability that I learned Zerde has Frontal AoE Amnesia attacks (I put it onto the wiki so it doesn't catch anyone else off guard), which can wreck your run. I highly recommend OBS Studio, it's helped me perfect my strategies for 6 man runs.

Thanks for all the input.

Summary: Essenitally Ifrit's missing, and when he does hit, it's lackluster. Aiming for 1595 Accuracy for Ifrit when doing Flaming Crush on Zerde. Need to work on the supports more so that we can do more damage.

Our conclusion: We've decided to break for a month based on the advice to take advantage of the upcoming Omen card campaign in March 2021, as well as farming Cait Sith, and as a stretch getting a Rostam. IRL prevents more of a commitment at the moment.

On an different note:
The other SMN and I were stunned when we saw you two post. We're literally looking up the Summoner's Gear Guide, and the comments signed ~Kriz on BG Wiki on a daily basis.

You two have done amazing things for our game, and have been the two that have enabled us as summoners to work on a low man clear this far on our Aeonic runs.

Thank you both.

Thanks for the kind words.

Back in late 2019, my friends and I wanted Aeonics but got burned with 8 hour runs for 1-2 clears. Of course, back then I thought my WHM was helpful even on AFAC runs.

We learned that each body adds another 200k HP to the NM. That's actually why I started adding my comments to the wiki was to track it myself! As such, our goal was for each SMN to pull 400k of damage.

We made a similar decision to yours - spend time getting pre-requisite gear.

Thankfully, you can "buy" your way out of some of it - Vorseals for attack/accuracy, GEO JSE+2 Neck is a mini Idris (that you can sell after you get Idris if you never start augmenting it), Rostam Path C is a bit of a waste even if it is BiS, but back then I never thought I'd have Regal Necklace (but now even Ou is something we do just for cards/hands- with the same SMN gear for Ifrit/Ramuh we use for AFAC!).

One friend finished Nirvana, and we were just totally underwhelmed vs. non-Nirvana. It's better- no doubt- but we learned that "Nirvana only" runs were more designed to filter out non-master SMNs who would come in Tali'ah gear to runs (also guilty when I started). Same was true for SMN JSE Neck+2. Better... but not by much vs. a free Omen neck.

I made a guide that I haven't publicized much at Easy Button that I hope to expand with my thoughts on each job I suggest for lowman AFAC. There are tips in there that I think are pretty cool (forcing roll boosts via Trusts, COR backup healer or even make COR a roll->warp->rotate to RUN or GEO, Vorseal/Impact/Light Shot usage).

Indeed, the big thing I tell everyone is get started on coalitions ASAP. The difference with Bolster Geo-Frailty on Dunna/JSE+2/Idris is monumental and while not required, is certainly revolutionary. Much more so than Nirvana. Epeo comes somewhere in between (Epeo's worth is amazing- just less so when fights are over in 30s and you lose hate about 20s in).

Oh Im far from Wise (*'-') but ty for the kind words indeed.
Lanun Knife is an valid option to Regal Necklace, but also depends on your servers availability.
Another is Entrust Torpor which at 900 skill is -50Eva, which should push Acc over the edge.
But yes, the most valuable bubble here is Frailty.

Flaming Crush being a Hybrid
It contains two physical hits and one magical.
Base Damage of the magical hit is determined by the total damage of the physical hits.
It's a special move to debuff for in that sence.

Reviewed some of my sets based on what was said above for Ifrits FC. I had been using Apogee body but i didnt guess just how much of a different the acc would be so updated to:

ItemSet 376724

Path A for Apogee gear, and augments on my Merlinic are: BPD +10, Pet: Macc +15, MAB +14 and Macc/MAB Cape

I checked my acc with an 11 roll(regal neck, in Reis, and grape Daifuku) and i was at 1576 with this set. Is it suggested to use the Acc/att cape to bump acc further? would obv be 1606 if i changed cape.

With FC being hybrid everything ive read is to favour MAB and so i havent used the acc/att cape up until this point. Also wouldnt FC favour using Path A for legs or is Path D better?

1576 will cap on a lot of mobs, albumen needs over 1800 without evasion debuffs for example. so with debuffs, you're probably fine on accuracy and that's the most evasive mob I can think of

The jury is out on that one, I haven't seen any formal testing but I often went back and forth until I ultimately settled on path A. I think it is indeed a tiny bit better, but it's seriously a small difference, and you *NEED* path D pants while you definitely don't need path A pants. In fact if you look in my Lua, I think I have both in there and one is commented out because I switch back and forth frequently trying to see a difference. I'm still not totally certain which is better.

So I'd view it as one of those very last min-max things you do, and not something that most SMNs should prioritize.

Also, regarding using a RUN for Zerde, I saw some people above going with no RUN/Rayke but using a BRD for Threnody. That is the only way you're going to pull this off without Fire Rayke. You need one or the other, or magic accuracy will probably be lacking even with Languor up. No BRD? It's fine, but make sure your RUN is using Fire Rayke. No RUN? It's fine, but you'll want a BRD to do Threnody.

Other people have given advice and I'll add mine. My LS typically uses:

RUN GEO RDM SCH SMN SMN COR (and whatever else, 2 SMN can carry 2 parties on this fight)

RUN Rayke/Gambit Ignis, GEO Malaise/Languor, RDM Chainspell Stun, SCH Tabula Rasa and spam Liquefaction/Fusion SC, SMNs MB Meteor Strike

You don't need Nirvana for this strat. Can replace RDM with SMN stunner but the timing is very tight on that first Shock Squall. Rune fencer is really not optional for this fight. Can bring other jobs like BRD too to make it easier.

You can scholar 3 step and keep the window open... Zerde can die in one Skillchain.

This is a good idea, going to use that next time we do Zerde!

The Important thing to note here that I didn't notice in the OP's comment is the "Drop Cor" before pop. Putting your party at 5. That is essential in dropping it's HP Low enough for 2 SMN's to handle. If you're running 8 people, you're hurting yourself. If you already knew that, then disregard.

1 smn should be able to kill it using flaming crush with only 5 people if you do it right.

Looking at Physical BPs Specifically VS. This is what im currently running. In regard to Helios gear, both of mine are augmented with 29 acc. Do most people run acc or would it be safe to swap that to att?

ItemSet 240636
Merlinic are +10 BPD and Pet Dex +1, +29 att, macc +14, mab +2

They actually ninja adjusted Escha and Unity at some point (no idea when) to make them not start increasing HP until you have more than 6 people in the group.

I've killed Zerde with 10 people and 1 SMN before. Just me doing Flaming Crush. If you're doing capped damage, it goes down fast.

Stunning and buffs are the hard part, damage should be the easy part if buffs are done right.

You're probably going to want at least one accuracy roll between your Helios pieces and Merlinic hands. I suggest either two acc one attack, or two attack one acc. Feel free to experiment though.

Can someone confirm my timers. Im getting a 9:23 on hastega2. Can that be improved? (I dont swap into vox grip)

Every +1 skill you add, gives another +1second.
So if your set has every nook and cranny stuffed with the best skill+ but the staff(?)/grip.
Which should be something like
ItemSet 366324
I dont own HQ Bayaami so I cant say what max duration is but probably shy of 10min.

9:38 with this setup.

ItemSet 379034

I don't swap main/sub for anything because TP for am3/shell crusher.


EDIT: adding in espiritus/vox upped it to 9:56

Yeah I dont swap main/sub either. So you're at max duration in either set.

Given comparable gear and capped accuracy, does anybody have an estimated DPS difference of AF+AC Volt Strike spam between Gridarvor and Nirvana (with AM3 off).

What sort of % are we talking about here?