Max Dual Wield Question

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Max Dual Wield Question
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By Rockzo 2015-04-04 05:58:09
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I currently have 45 Dual Wield on my SOLO THF/DNC TP set, how much do I need to max out?
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By Pantafernando 2015-04-04 06:07:54
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Caps
Dw1:
No haste magic: dw63
Haste samba: dw60
Haste1: dw57
Haste2: dw47
Caphaste: dw25
Dw2:
No haste magic: dw58
Haste samba: dw54
Haste1: dw52
Haste2: dw41
Caphaste: dw20
Dw3:
No haste magic: dw48
Haste samba: dw44
Haste1: dw42
Haste2: dw31
Caphaste: dw11
Dw4:
No haste magic: dw43
Haste samba: dw39
Haste1: dw37
Haste2: dw26
Caphaste: dw5
Dw5:
No haste magic: dw38
Haste samba: dw34
Haste1: dw32
Haste2: dw21
Caphaste: 0
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By Rockzo 2015-04-04 06:12:42
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Thank you. So this means if I can reach 48 on gear I will no longer have to Haste Samba?^^
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By Pantafernando 2015-04-04 06:18:53
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I never did the math but i believe haste samba, most of time, is a loss due to duration and how much tp is consumed. But if you have it, its always better to reduce delay without relying on dw.
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By Rockzo 2015-04-04 06:21:39
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I was hoping that if I hit 48 in gear I could stop using haste samba and keep more tp for ws.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Chanceikin
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By Quetzalcoatl.Chanceikin 2015-10-14 11:56:17
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Bit of a bump here, but what DW value would you need with Koru Moru and Ulmia out?

I'm thinking the values are not static since ulmia probably gets bare bones haste values for her songs.. and I don't know RDM at all, so not sure if there's job specific boosts to the haste.

Really though, just curious what the max dw I'm going to need as a thf/dnc with KoruMoru's haste2 and Ulmia double march.

Thanks in advance.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Ninjaface 2015-10-14 12:13:19
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I'm pretty sure that haste and haste 2 are static bumps, if that helps you out at all.
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2015-10-14 12:14:27
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The formula for finding how much DW you need to cap attack speed is:

Total DW Needed = 1 - (0.2 / (1 - TotalHaste%))


So, just gotta figure out how much Haste you're getting from Ulmia and Koru-Moru. We know Haste II is a flat 30%. With Ulmia, it's a little more complicated since although she's using a harp, she doesn't have any March bonus.

Advancing March: 6.3% (64/1024)
Victory March: 9.4% (96/1024)

This means with both of her Marches you're getting 15.7% haste, which with Koru-Moru's Haste II puts you just over the magic haste cap (43.75%). Assuming then that you're wearing the max amount of haste for equipment (25%), which you almost certainly are in most armor choices, you're at a total of 68.75% haste. Now you can plug that into the formula:

0.36 = 1 - (0.2 / (1 - 0.6875))

Thus, you need a total of 36 Dual Wield. THF's native DW trait gives +25 DW, so you only would need +11 from gear.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Chanceikin 2015-10-14 12:27:54
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Thanks so much guys, I appreciate the quick response.
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2015-10-14 12:43:54
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I should have also included that if you or a party member uses Haste Samba (even as /DNC), your Total Haste goes up to a point where THF's native DW will put you over the cap.
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By Sylph.Cossack 2020-03-30 16:24:36
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So please correct me if I'm wrong; with both Ulmia's marcehs, haste one, capped gear haste, I'd need 26 dual wield to cap attack speed on thf?
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By Shiva.Arislan 2020-03-30 20:18:44
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Sylph.Cossack said: »
So please correct me if I'm wrong; with both Ulmia's marcehs, haste one, capped gear haste, I'd need 26 dual wield to cap attack speed on thf?

Should be able ~11% DW needed if you're at 550+ JPs.

Code
(1 - Dual Wield Trait % - Dual Wield Needed %) × (1 - Magic Haste % - Gear Haste %)  =  0.2

- Ulmia marches combined are 26% haste,
- Haste I is 15%,
- Capped gear haste is 25%,
- Dual Wield IV trait is 30%.
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By SimonSes 2020-03-30 20:40:02
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Shiva.Arislan said: »
Should be able ~11% DW needed if you're at 550+ JPs.

You mean 11% if he is not at 550+
With that gift THF base is 30%DW and 36% is needed to cap delay with capped magic haste.
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By Shiva.Arislan 2020-03-30 21:06:47
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My math has total DW required at ~41%. Ulmia's marches are short of capping magic haste.
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By SimonSes 2020-03-30 21:27:36
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Shiva.Arislan said: »
My math has total DW required at ~41%. Ulmia's marches are short of capping magic haste.

***you are totally right. For some reason I assumed haste ii, because I always use king of hearts.
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By Sylph.Cossack 2020-03-30 23:17:34
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I usually use Apururu, and Ulmia, so trying to figure out my gear selections. According to Jeanpaul Ulmia only grants 15ish with both marches, leading me to 30(magic)+ 25(gear)+ X(dual wield)= 80.
Using the BG DW cheat sheet, X = 26 for master thf, right?
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By SimonSes 2020-03-31 03:08:00
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Sylph.Cossack said: »
I usually use Apururu, and Ulmia, so trying to figure out my gear selections. According to Jeanpaul Ulmia only grants 15ish with both marches, leading me to 30(magic)+ 25(gear)+ X(dual wield)= 80.
Using the BG DW cheat sheet, X = 26 for master thf, right?

Dont do according to anything. Check by yourself. Let her cast marches on you and cast some spell w high recast with /whm and without gear and you will know exact value of her marches by checking how much it reduced a recast.
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By Asura.Chiaia 2020-03-31 05:15:02
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SimonSes said: »
Sylph.Cossack said: »
I usually use Apururu, and Ulmia, so trying to figure out my gear selections. According to Jeanpaul Ulmia only grants 15ish with both marches, leading me to 30(magic)+ 25(gear)+ X(dual wield)= 80.
Using the BG DW cheat sheet, X = 26 for master thf, right?

Dont do according to anything.
If players didn't then they shouldn't believe any number you post on here either. The whole reason either wiki exist is to try and help most players. Some of us can math and should update the wikis if we can. Some of us enjoy logging down steps for a quest etc . . . Same goes for AH posts. Yea it's not always done right, someone usually calls it out. Example your post above about DW values because you assumed Haste II.

I'm not saying you're correct or incorrect atm it just literally kills almost anything you post on here, even just 4 posts ago.
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By malakef 2020-03-31 07:40:30
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Sylph.Cossack said: »
I usually use Apururu, and Ulmia, so trying to figure out my gear selections. According to Jeanpaul Ulmia only grants 15ish with both marches, leading me to 30(magic)+ 25(gear)+ X(dual wield)= 80.
Using the BG DW cheat sheet, X = 26 for master thf, right?

Let’s see (100-X)*[1-(30+25)/100]= 20. Solve for X and get 55.55 so rounded to 56. Master THF has 30 base so 56-30 = 26. Without the 550 gift it’s 31. And yes this is all shown on the cheat sheet for the 30% hast scenario and is more than likely the sole reason that scenario exists.
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By FaeQueenCory 2020-03-31 08:05:22
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Also: just to be extra clear, Haste works as a bitwise shift, not a simple multiplier.
Meaning in order to get "true" haste amounts, you'll need that xx/1024 number for your hastes and marches and whatnot.

The DW cheatsheet on BGwiki was calculated with these appropriate values because we take the time to do that nonsense for people.

Just using 15/30/43%s for the haste part of the equation can lead to erroneous values. (as can having less than capped gear haste... which finding the xx/1024 for each piece of gear... ain't no body got time for. Hence why we gear ≥26% Haste.)

DW however is a simple percentage multiplier... because of course it would be because that's how SE's arcane eldritch thinking works.
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By Shiva.Arislan 2020-03-31 09:00:29
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Sylph.Cossack said: »
According to Jeanpaul Ulmia only grants 15ish with both marches, leading me to 30(magic)+ 25(gear)+ X(dual wield)= 80.

BG-Wiki has the following values listed for Ulmia:

Quote:
Advancing March grants 108/1024 Magical Haste.
Victory March grants 155/1024 Magical Haste.

263/1024 = 25.7%
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