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Minimum Wage
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-20 10:26:19
but don't you dare touch their money or benefits to give to the poor.
I'm in favor of higher taxation for everyone to see that more people are housed, fed, medically cared for, and educated. I never understood this mentality tbh.
You want higher taxes with the promise of doing these things, which often doesn't get done and usually that money goes straight into someone's pocket.
If I was gungho about helping them, I'd do it myself. Never mind that taxes were raised for this very reason and yet, the problem just got worse.
New solution? Double down on the failed one. Well you see... what happened was... the people paying the taxes had to go on food stamps and eventually become poor themselves.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-20 10:28:39
Watch out there, Flavin is going to attack at you for blaming the government for creating poverty by raising costs and taxes on people.
Cause and effect isn't a strong topic for him.
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By fonewear 2015-03-20 10:35:24
but don't you dare touch their money or benefits to give to the poor.
I'm in favor of higher taxation for everyone to see that more people are housed, fed, medically cared for, and educated. I never understood this mentality tbh.
You want higher taxes with the promise of doing these things, which often doesn't get done and usually that money goes straight into someone's pocket.
If I was gungho about helping them, I'd do it myself. Do it myself? Why bother when the mere promise is sufficient to fill me up on smugness?
I'm for world peace, as long as I don't have to really do anything for it.
You want world peace here you go:
#worldpeace
Done!
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By fonewear 2015-03-20 10:39:20
My bad Rihanna already did this:
YouTube Video Placeholder
By fonewear 2015-03-20 10:41:21
She is pretty sexy so I'll go along with the premise !
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-03-20 10:44:20
Watch out there, Flavin is going to attack at you for blaming the government for creating poverty by raising costs and taxes on people.
Cause and effect isn't a strong topic for him. Oooooo I'm starting to reach Pleebo status! Getting attacked before I've even commented on something!
Rasing costs and taxes isn't so much the problem as a misappropriation of the funds collected.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-03-20 10:48:39
Watch out there, Flavin is going to attack at you for blaming the government for creating poverty by raising costs and taxes on people.
Cause and effect isn't a strong topic for him. Oooooo I'm starting to reach Pleebo status! Getting attacked before I've even commented on something!
Rasing costs and taxes isn't so much the problem as a misappropriation of the funds collected. Right and the government never allocates funds properly so starving the beast and giving them as little money as possible is the answer.
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By fonewear 2015-03-20 10:53:52
Warren Buffet said he wants to pay more taxes
I said who the *** cares about Warren Buffet !
He is probably a Jew lover anyways !
Seraph.Ramyrez
Server: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1918
By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-03-20 10:57:40
Right and the government never allocates funds properly so starving the beast and giving them as little money as possible is the answer.
Because that money will get where it's supposed to go that way, right?
What you're basically saying is, "the government will *** it up and the money won't get to the people who need it, so just let the billionaires and millionaires keep their money to themselves. It still won't get to the people who need it, but they can at least vicariously enjoy their owners living the high life."
By fonewear 2015-03-20 10:59:14
The tax the rich thing has been so overdone it might as well be a meme.
By fonewear 2015-03-20 11:00:07
Goes something like this
Tax the rich
???
Better economy !
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-20 11:00:08
Right and the government never allocates funds properly so starving the beast and giving them as little money as possible is the answer.
Because that money will get where it's supposed to go that way, right?
What you're basically saying is, "the government will *** it up and the money won't get to the people who need it, so just let the billionaires and millionaires keep their money to themselves. It still won't get to the people who need it, but they can at least vicariously enjoy their owners living the high life." The problem is that money is hardly ever taken from those millionaires and billionaires to begin with. Most of that money comes from the so called middle class.
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Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-03-20 11:00:22
Watch out there, Flavin is going to attack at you for blaming the government for creating poverty by raising costs and taxes on people.
Cause and effect isn't a strong topic for him. Oooooo I'm starting to reach Pleebo status! Getting attacked before I've even commented on something!
Rasing costs and taxes isn't so much the problem as a misappropriation of the funds collected. Right and the government never allocates funds properly so starving the beast and giving them as little money as possible is the answer. Watch it all collapse... yeah... great idea!
In case you didn't see through the sarcasm that is not the best way to resolve the issue at hand. It's not even a good one.
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By fonewear 2015-03-20 11:03:24
What exactly is the point of punishing people that become millionaires and billionaires ?
Social justice ? Make them feel bad for being successful ?
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-20 11:05:26
What exactly is the point of punishing people that become millionaires and billionaires ?
Social justice ? Make them feel bad for being successful ? People who make 7 digit incomes and higher give to charities to offset their tax liabilities. Making the whole process moot to begin with. It's only the working class that pays through taxes.
By fonewear 2015-03-20 11:09:19
I get that middle class pays the most % wise. But why do the middle class care about Warren Buffet etc. He doesn't give a damn about the middle class.
He might as well be Obama talking about we need to help the middle class etc
Leviathan.Protey
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 685
By Leviathan.Protey 2015-03-20 11:12:26
as typical of right leaning people, I am hard working, dependable, and responsible. I'm going to have to stop you right there.
It doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum you are on, there are hard working, dependable, and responsible people period.
It is a common misconception that only the <insert whichever side of the political spectrum you are on> are the hardest working, most dependable, and most responsible people there is, and that's an outright lie. Because we are humans who are generally have different personalities, and work ethics is not connected one bit with political viewpoints.
where did I say people of the left are not? why do people infer from things that shouldn't reasonably be inferred? If I were to say dogs have fur, does one infer that it necessarily means non-dogs cannot have fur? that's ridiculous. I have known hard-working, dependable, and responsible people on the left. However, you would be hard-pressed to find a conservative that doesn't think they need to earn their own way in this world; many, many people on the left think that just because they exist they are entitled to something. About the only thing conservatives think people are entitled to are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the basic rights guaranteed in the constitution.
By fonewear 2015-03-20 11:13:02
What type of dogs are we talking about here golden retrievers !!
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2015-03-20 11:14:52
but don't you dare touch their money or benefits to give to the poor.
I'm in favor of higher taxation for everyone to see that more people are housed, fed, medically cared for, and educated.
I'm in favor of usage taxation. Gas/registration should be sufficient to fund roadworks. Property taxes should be sufficient to fund community works. Utility bills should be sufficient to fund utility function and upkeep, etc.
I don't mind paying more, so long as it's going toward delivering and maintaining the services.
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Fenrir.Schutz
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3122
By Fenrir.Schutz 2015-03-20 11:17:29
What type of dogs are we talking about here golden retrievers !!
I've seen enough dog-meme's on the internet to know that dogs generally don't know what they are doing, and thus really can't be considered hard-working, dependable, or responsible. :/
By fonewear 2015-03-20 11:18:03
What is this real life ?
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-03-20 11:18:24
What exactly is the point of punishing people that become millionaires and billionaires ?
Social justice ? Make them feel bad for being successful ? People who make 7 digit incomes and higher give to charities to offset their tax liabilities. Making the whole process moot to begin with. It's only the working class that pays through taxes. That's not all that's done to avoid it and it's not always just people making 7 figures.
By Bloodrose 2015-03-20 11:21:47
as typical of right leaning people, I am hard working, dependable, and responsible. I'm going to have to stop you right there.
It doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum you are on, there are hard working, dependable, and responsible people period.
It is a common misconception that only the <insert whichever side of the political spectrum you are on> are the hardest working, most dependable, and most responsible people there is, and that's an outright lie. Because we are humans who are generally have different personalities, and work ethics is not connected one bit with political viewpoints.
where did I say people of the left are not? why do people infer from things that shouldn't reasonably be inferred? If I were to say dogs have fur, does one infer that it necessarily means non-dogs cannot have fur? that's ridiculous. I have known hard-working, dependable, and responsible people on the left. However, you would be hard-pressed to find a conservative that doesn't think they need to earn their own way in this world; many, many people on the left think that just because they exist they are entitled to something. About the only thing conservatives think people are entitled to are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the basic rights guaranteed in the constitution. The same thing can be said, and is true about the people on the right. So it's really dishonest to say that about only the left wingers. Which is what KN was getting at.
What you are saying, by claiming "as typical of the right", means that it is not typical of the left. When it's not even remotely true.
It is because the left works as hard, as dependably as the right, that they feel it is their responsibility to provide for those who can not provide for themselves for various reasons - which encompasses both sides, not just the left wingers that can't provide, not just the right. But for everyone.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-20 11:21:53
Right and the government never allocates funds properly so starving the beast and giving them as little money as possible is the answer.
Because that money will get where it's supposed to go that way, right?
What you're basically saying is, "the government will *** it up and the money won't get to the people who need it, so just let the billionaires and millionaires keep their money to themselves. It still won't get to the people who need it, but they can at least vicariously enjoy their owners living the high life." The problem is that money is hardly ever taken from those millionaires and billionaires to begin with. Most of that money comes from the so called middle class.
Wrong, the top 20% pays just under 70% of all federal income taxes. In that report, the top 1% pays about 63% of all federal taxes for the entire nation.
The bottom 40% pays less than 0% of all federal taxes. They receive more back from refundable credits than they put in through payroll taxes.
I thought we went over this before?
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2015-03-20 11:27:22
What exactly is the point of punishing people that become millionaires and billionaires ?
Social justice ? Make them feel bad for being successful ? People who make 7 digit incomes and higher give to charities to offset their tax liabilities. Making the whole process moot to begin with. It's only the working class that pays through taxes.
Those offsets were intended as encouragement for people to donate disposable income to private organizations rather than having their roles performed by the government, sorta like a voluntary tax. And, really, as long as the charities are being evaluated and required to use a certain portion of their donations for their intended purpose, that's working as intended. A private non-profit can use that money WAY more effectively than the government can. As long as our tax income is sufficient to support the function of government (I'd argue it is and mismanaged) there is no issue with allowing charitable donations to offset tax liability. It's one of the few "loopholes" I'm very much in favor of.
Seraph.Ramyrez
Server: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1918
By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-03-20 11:27:35
This argument just boils down to, "it's mine and no one else's" vs. "good for society", and the people who want the former trying to convince you that the former is the latter.
So...feh. Let's just all got to RP&R and talk about something that leads to talking about boobs.
By Bloodrose 2015-03-20 11:28:36
Strippers getting boob jobs can be written off as tax-deductible if done for the sake of their job.
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By fonewear 2015-03-20 11:29:18
Edit damn internets
Seraph.Ramyrez
Server: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1918
By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-03-20 11:30:34
. A private non-profit can use that money WAY more effectively than the government can.
Yeah. They can totally spend it on making their CEO a millionaire.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-20 11:33:17
. A private non-profit can use that money WAY more effectively than the government can.
Yeah. They can totally spend it on making their CEO a millionaire. You know the nice thing about non-profits?
They have to report to the public how much their officers make per year.
So, go ahead, show us a non-profit organization that blows all of their money on their CEO.
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omg what a surprise...
Quote: In a few weeks, Seattle’s new, highest in the country, $15 per hour minimum wage will go into effect. Like many liberal policies, it was passed by City Hall with the best of intentions. The only problem is, in the end, it may do more harm than good for many.
Private businesses, unlike government entities (which, in theory, can always raise taxes or borrow), must make more than they spend in order to pay the rent, make payroll, keep the lights on, pay their business taxes, and, heaven forbid, have some left over for the owners and investors who are taking the risk and putting in the long hours.
Earlier this month, Seattle Magazine asked, Why Are So Many Seattle Restaurants Closing Lately?:
Last month—and particularly last week— Seattle foodies were downcast as the blows kept coming: Queen Anne’s Grub closed February 15. Pioneer Square’s Little Uncle shut down February 25. Shanik’s Meeru Dhalwala announced that it will close March 21. Renée Erickson’s Boat Street Café will shutter May 30 after 17 years with her at the helm…What the #*%&$* is going on? A variety of things, probably—and a good chance there is more change to come.
The magazine went on to report that one “major factor affecting restaurant futures in our city is the impending minimum wage hike.” Anthony Anton, president and CEO of Washington Restaurant Association, told the magazine, “It’s not a political problem; it’s a math problem.” He estimates that restaurants usually have a budget breakdown of about 36 percent for labor, 30 percent for food costs, and 30 percent to cover other operational costs. That leaves 4 percent for a profit margin. When labor costs shoot up to say 42 percent, something has to give.
Restaurants can take actions to adjust, such as raise their prices, acquire cheaper ingredients, and cut their operating hours and labor force. However, all those actions generate reactions from the public which can still lead to lower revenues for the restaurant and, for some, the decision to close their doors.
The Washington Policy Center explains:
When prices rise consumers seek alternatives, a behavior economists call the “substitution effect,” which results in lower demand for the higher-priced product. In the case of restaurants, consumers have access to the ultimate substitution – they can stay home.
A spokesman for the Washington Restaurant Association told the Washington Policy Center, “Every [restaurant] operator I’m talking to is in panic mode, trying to figure out what the new world will look like.”
Seattle had a foretaste of the effect of the $15 minimum wage earlier this year when Prop 1, which made a $15 minimum wage for those working in parking garages and hotels near Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, took effect. A reporter asked a cleaning woman and a part-time banquet server, who work in a hotel near SEATAC, what they thought of the new law:
The cleaning woman responded, “It sounds good, but it’s not good,”
“Why?” I asked.
“I lost my 401k, health insurance, paid holiday, and vacation,” she responded. “No more free food,” she added.
The hotel used to feed her. Now, she has to bring her own food. Also, no overtime, she said. She used to work extra hours and received overtime pay.
“What else?” I asked.
“I have to pay for parking,” she said.
I then asked the part-time waitress, who was part of the catering staff.
“Yes, I’ve got $15 an hour, but all my tips are now much less,” she said. Before the new wage law was implemented, her hourly wage was $7. But her tips added to more than $15 an hour. Yes, she used to receive free food and parking. Now, she has to bring her own food and pay for parking.
The Seattle Times reported that a Clarion Hotel recently made the decision to close its full service restaurant (laying off 15 people) and let go of a night desk clerk and a maintenance worker. It also plans to raise its rates by 10 percent to offset increased labor costs.
As the April 1 deadline approaches, the residents of Seattle will have a front row seat to the effects of the $15 per hour minimum wage, but early indicators suggest it will not be as positive as City Hall intended.
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