Minimum Wage |
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Minimum Wage
Unions need a major overhaul in most cases but they have played and still play an important part in employee rights and safety.
Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Unions need a major overhaul in most cases but they have played and still play an important part in employee rights and safety. This is basically my feeling on it. Seraph.Ramyrez said: » Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Abolish the minimum wage and make union membership optional. Chaos loves the Chinese system as far as I can tell. Mostly because he makes money off of them, I suspect, so he has no problem with the way they do things as long as he gets his? This is conjecture on my part, but that's how it seems to me. Asura.Kingnobody said: » You can't keep using the same excuse over and over again. Which excuse was that again? Seraph.Ramyrez said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » You can't keep using the same excuse over and over again. Which excuse was that again? Second time this week you accused somebody of only accepting a position because they benefit from it the most. Never mind that the position is thought to be what is best for the nation, and evidence supports that fact, but because there are no "feels" associated with it, you automatically think it's wrong. Don't need unions for safety, we have OSHA. Only thing unions do is demand more pay for less work. Which is kinda pointless in a private market where the workers of any given industry aren't all unionized. Hence why union membership is pretty low.
It does however benefit public sector employment, but only as a huge conflict of interest. Policy makers promise unions better benefits for political support, in turn some of those dollars gotten from better benefits get pumped back into the policy maker's pockets, which is used to make more promises and collect more money, which is used to make more promises and collect more money which....etc. Asura.Kingnobody said: » Seraph.Ramyrez said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » You can't keep using the same excuse over and over again. Which excuse was that again? Second time this week you accused somebody of only accepting a position because they benefit from it the most. ...how is that inaccurate? That's essentially the American economy, for ***'s sake. I'm no better. You think my shoes were made in Oklahoma somewhere? You think I want to pay $300 for shoes that were? Okay, well, maybe I do, but I'm the rare guy that admits he likes shoes. But what you're saying if you disagree with me is that you think getting rid of unions benefits employees at all. And it most certainly does it. It benefits employers who get more from their employees for less, and the ability to treat them worse, essentially at will. Asura.Kingnobody said: » Never mind that the position is thought to be what is best for the nation, and evidence supports that fact, but because there are no "feels" associated with it, you automatically think it's wrong. It's best for the nation for workers to get treated like ***. Got it. Asura.Kingnobody said: » evidence supports that fact You know what, I hate to say this, but it's time for the union workers to grow a pair.
If you really think that it's unbearable doing the work you do for the amount of money you do it for, then leave. Let somebody else do that job you think you are too good for, and you either better yourself and make yourself more marketable or find a job you like and work there. Stop acting like a drama ***, learn something useful, and go out and do something with yourself. Moreso if you have a family to take care of. Maybe then that you will realize that most employers do not treat their employees like ***like you claim, because it is hard to find good, dependable help who doesn't whine and *** and play the drama queen like most union workers do. It is doable, it is achievable, and it is better for the nation to accept the fact that unions are the ones who are hurting the American worker more because they are creating needy, whiny little queens who want to destroy the company they are working at by asking for more wages than they are worth. Ever wonder why those companies are moving out of union states and into "employment at will" states? It's mainly because union workers are driving them away from an area where good, quality workers are available due to their intense greed and demand and overestimating their net worth. Great response Flavin, exactly what we should expect from such an articulate and educated individual such as yourself.
Asura.Kingnobody said: » Great response Flavin, exactly what we should expect from such an articulate and educated individual such as yourself. Edit: even more so than I originally thought. Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Great response Flavin, exactly what we should expect from such an articulate and educated individual such as yourself. Don't worry, we won't expect anything reasonable or intelligent to come from your keyboard. Bwahahahahaha.
Okay, whatever King. You've got some serious perception issues going on and I'm beginning to think it's not because you want to pull the wool over anyone's eyes for your benefit, it's because you really believe the things you say. Our country is just idiotically behind the rest of the western world when it comes to worker's rights and benefits, yet somehow they're all the ones that are wrong. We're the only ones that are right. Meanwhile the more rights we we get, the more companies ship their work off to countries with so few workers' rights it would be (literally) criminal here in the United States. And it's totally the Unions' fault for trying to stop employers from treating workers like expendable resources. I'm starting to think you've never done a day of actual work in your life. Oh, sure, you've put in plenty of time and effort in offices and the like, but I really don't think you understand breaking your back for someone who doesn't give a damn about you. Asura.Kingnobody said: » Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Great response Flavin, exactly what we should expect from such an articulate and educated individual such as yourself. Don't worry, we won't expect anything reasonable or intelligent to come from your keyboard. That's alright. With posts like that I wouldn't expect you to be able to have a reasonable or intelligent discussion on the matter anyways. Seraph.Ramyrez said: » Okay, whatever King. You've got some serious perception issues going on and I'm beginning to think it's not because you want to pull the wool over anyone's eyes for your benefit, it's because you really believe the things you say. Texas can always use the jobs you send our way. Or are you going to deny the reasoning behind what I said about jobs moving out of your state and into mine? Seraph.Ramyrez said: » Our country is just idiotically behind the rest of the western world when it comes to worker's rights and benefits, yet somehow they're all the ones that are wrong. Seraph.Ramyrez said: » Meanwhile the more rights we we get, the more companies ship their work off to countries with so few workers' rights it would be (literally) criminal here in the United States. Doesn't matter to me, again, Texas is getting an influx of manufacturing jobs, which in turns creates service jobs, especially jobs that I'm currently at. Not all of the jobs you are losing are going overseas. They are coming here to Texas too. I guess a strong union presence has been a major factor in the number of jobs created in Texas...oh wai... Seraph.Ramyrez said: » Oh, sure, you've put in plenty of time and effort in offices and the like, but I really don't think you understand breaking your back for someone who doesn't give a damn about you. Asura.Kingnobody said: » You are right, I never had to do menial work like that, and I'm sorry that you are in a position where you think that your immediate boss doesn't care about your well being. Which may be true if you are working in a job like Walmart. If you are dissatisfied with your current job, why are you still working there? I am currently satisfied, but it took me time to get here and I had to work in some less-than-ideal places beforehand to make ends meet, because that's what I was raised to do; do what you have to in order to get by while you continue to try to improve. But some people can't improve. And they don't deserve to be treated like garbage because of their limitations. As for my immediate higher ups, I'm sure they do care about my well-being. The higher ups outside of my "branch" do not, however. So I'll take whatever leverage I can get in seeing that they play fair when it comes to wheeling and dealing. Asura.Kingnobody said: » I guess a strong union presence has been a major factor in the number of jobs created in Texas...oh wai... OF COURSE they want to go there. Why wouldn't they? They can get away with paying workers less and giving them less to get more out of them. Asura.Kingnobody said: » So, name a couple of countries who have stronger "worker's rights and benefits" and I'll show you how well those workers really are doing. The United States is practically the only country in the West that doesn't guarantee some number of paid holidays to all workers. And that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to lack of guaranteed benefits. Not going to go any deeper because right there I'm sure you already disagree and it will just get "worse" from there. Unions are a political tool, nothing more.
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Min wage thread !
Lisa needs braces ! Min wage thread ! Lisa needs braces ! Asura.Kingnobody said: » You know what, I hate to say this, but it's time for the union workers to grow a pair. If you really think that it's unbearable doing the work you do for the amount of money you do it for, then leave. Let somebody else do that job you think you are too good for, and you either better yourself and make yourself more marketable or find a job you like and work there. Stop acting like a drama ***, learn something useful, and go out and do something with yourself. Moreso if you have a family to take care of. Maybe then that you will realize that most employers do not treat their employees like ***like you claim, because it is hard to find good, dependable help who doesn't whine and *** and play the drama queen like most union workers do. It is doable, it is achievable, and it is better for the nation to accept the fact that unions are the ones who are hurting the American worker more because they are creating needy, whiny little queens who want to destroy the company they are working at by asking for more wages than they are worth. Ever wonder why those companies are moving out of union states and into "employment at will" states? It's mainly because union workers are driving them away from an area where good, quality workers are available due to their intense greed and demand and overestimating their net worth. Back in Ireland in the 1800s, when it was ruled by English landlords, being Irish made one only slightly better than being an African slave in the United States. You were in virtually every respect a chattel slave, except the important part that no one technically owned you as chattel. The great potato blight (which occurred because Irish serfs were farming a monoculture potato) happened at the same time that Ireland was exporting huge supplies of food. Why? Because the landlords demanded that almost all food be sent to England and that the blight was basically God's way of punishing the Irish for being too fruitful (they'd undergone a major population boom in the preceding decades). For anyone wondering why a potato blight killed so many people, Irish serfs would eat several pounds of potatoes daily to survive. This led to a mass exodus of Irishmen to the Americas, primarily the United States. Being the United States was still functionally English (meaning British), the Irish were treated with spectacular disdain. Indeed, the difference between a newly-freed slave in the post-Civil War period and an Irish immigrant was very difficult to discern, barring the obvious one of appearance. This was in no way helped by centuries of using Irishmen as indentured servants, that is, there was a long history of treating them as little better than African slaves. Faced with the challenge of trying to elevate themselves, the Irish in America made a horrendous decision. Rather than joining in arms with their fellow downtrodden, the freed (or soon-to-be-freed, depending on how far back one wishes to go) African slaves, they opted to unite with the white freemen of the United States. This was heartily decried by Irishmen still living in Ireland. In order to support themselves, the Irish, at the urging of their Catholic clergy and community leaders, would take any job at almost no pay and work as many hours as necessary. No job was beneath them so long as it established their utility. Housemaids were often called Mollies as a result. Eventually their plan worked, although it did take the better part of a century and there are people still alive today in 2015 who remember NINA. Although this did eventually work in favor of the Irish, such that we're now completely ignored as a culture except when HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE Americans want an excuse to get sloppy drunk and jingoistic cultural appropriation is somehow not considered highly offensive, it was not without consequences. The fact that Irish men and women worked for pennies encouraged business owners to grow increasingly exploitative. The gross maltreatment of workers is ultimately what resulted in unions (in a not dissimilar way to how guilds were formed in Europe centuries prior). One point to take away is that Hispanics, even without their prodigious population growth, will likely achieve a similar level of acceptance via the same self-sacrificing method within a couple decades. Another point to take away is that as Hispanic immigrants gradually cease being desperate and are considered vital (a process already very much underway if you know where to look). Expect another series of unionization battles to begin within our lifetimes because employers, although not quite as bad as the resource barons of the late 1800s, are acting with a similar level of callousness. Or we could learn from history for once and try to forestall all of this by treating people like people, paying people an appropriate wage in recompense for their toil and their ability, and generally not being the greediest *** possible. Not that I'm holding my breath. Largely spot on, Ono. Thanks.
fonewear said: » That is a long "brief" history ! fonewear said: » That is a long "brief" history ! Yeah, well, given you could write entire volumes on every decade the subject encompasses, that is a pretty great synopsis. Seraph.Ramyrez said: » But some people can't improve. And they don't deserve to be treated like garbage because of their limitations. Seraph.Ramyrez said: » OF COURSE they want to go there. Why wouldn't they? They can get away with paying workers less and giving them less to get more out of them. Seraph.Ramyrez said: » The United States is practically the only country in the West that doesn't guarantee some number of paid holidays to all workers. And that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to lack of guaranteed benefits. Not going to go any deeper because right there I'm sure you already disagree and it will just get "worse" from there. But seriously, name a country. Offline
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The only history I remember is MLK marching in Selma then nothing happen for a long time...boom Obama elected. Makes you think !
Asura.Kingnobody said: » Name a situation where somebody cannot improve. Cannot use mental issues as an excuse, because they are not reflected by the average worker. Mental illness? No. Mental limitations? Yes. Some people just aren't going to ever manage to be much more than housekeepers or warehouse workers. I can say personally, that making the move outside the US 7 years ago saw a:
- pre-tax income increase of 100% - transition from 2 weeks of vacation and no paternity leave, to 5 weeks vacation and 2 weeks full-pay paternity (with shared lower-pay parental leave) - reduction from 55hr/wk (average) to 37hr/wk (average). In the subsequent timeframe (7 years forward), pre-tax income has increased by about 40%, tax burden has increased about 5%, and an additional week of vacation (6 weeks total) was negotiated. Shiva.Onorgul said: » Or we could learn from history for once and try to forestall all of this by treating people like people, paying people an appropriate wage in recompense for their toil and their ability, and generally not being the greediest *** possible. Care to name one job where the employee is not getting paid the fair market value of that job? |
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