~First And Final Line Of Defense V2.0~
~First and Final Line of Defense v2.0~
can probably swap in relic+3 body or souveran+1 more acc/atk, lose sphere, keep DTs
Sphere effect is pretty pointless when the DPS around you are rocking QA/TA gear or have capped DA already.
Relic+3 body is definitely better.
But theoretically speaking the Sphere DA body /should/ be better net party DPS.
As much as people like to say your DPS are rocking capped DA... they probably arent, and Im not gonna waste time setting myself up to swap to Relic+3 body for the 1/10 GG DDs I get that actually DO have DA capped, when I have seen enough of them that have the occasional +2 JSE instead of +3, or their belt is NQ, or they dont have telos earring, or etc etc.
Not really worth the effort to get that whopping extra couple dozen acc on my paladin.
Also, btw, the sphere effect applies to your DD's weaponskilling.
And most DDs don't have capped DA on their WS sets. So keep in mind that Sphere: DA on kubira is also slightly boosting your DDs WS dmg!
But theoretically speaking the Sphere DA body /should/ be better net party DPS.
As much as people like to say your DPS are rocking capped DA... they probably arent, and Im not gonna waste time setting myself up to swap to Relic+3 body for the 1/10 GG DDs I get that actually DO have DA capped, when I have seen enough of them that have the occasional +2 JSE instead of +3, or their belt is NQ, or they dont have telos earring, or etc etc.
Not really worth the effort to get that whopping extra couple dozen acc on my paladin.
Also, btw, the sphere effect applies to your DD's weaponskilling.
And most DDs don't have capped DA on their WS sets. So keep in mind that Sphere: DA on kubira is also slightly boosting your DDs WS dmg!
I use something like this when I want to pretend my DDness as PLD matters,to each there own missing the neck myself but someday.
ItemSet 366457
Works well for Omen/Dyna changing shield as needed.
Has 2800~ HP before food more MDB/MEVA than Sov+1 although lacks a true PDT cap, but if you are using this prolly the 1%~2% for true cap shouldn't be a issue. Personally have VIT 20 Acc 30 Att 20 DA 10% PDT 10%. Lacks the TON of MA, but seems silly to drop so much actualy tanking gear as that's the only reason your there.
ItemSet 366457
Works well for Omen/Dyna changing shield as needed.
Has 2800~ HP before food more MDB/MEVA than Sov+1 although lacks a true PDT cap, but if you are using this prolly the 1%~2% for true cap shouldn't be a issue. Personally have VIT 20 Acc 30 Att 20 DA 10% PDT 10%. Lacks the TON of MA, but seems silly to drop so much actualy tanking gear as that's the only reason your there.
That seems like it could use quite a bit of improvement.
Gauntlets, Coronet, and Leggings provide very little. You can get way better from other items.
Id highly recommend choosing either Sailfi Belt +1 or Windbuffet +1 depending on if your haste is capped or not.
Vit+20 is an... interesting choice on the backpiece.
And missing 1 or 2% PDT when you have Burtgang is a huge deal.
PDT/MDT give exponential returns. If you have Burtgang, every point of PDT is worth exponentially more than the last. You absolutely must be trying your best to cap it for end game content.
Gauntlets, Coronet, and Leggings provide very little. You can get way better from other items.
Id highly recommend choosing either Sailfi Belt +1 or Windbuffet +1 depending on if your haste is capped or not.
Vit+20 is an... interesting choice on the backpiece.
And missing 1 or 2% PDT when you have Burtgang is a huge deal.
PDT/MDT give exponential returns. If you have Burtgang, every point of PDT is worth exponentially more than the last. You absolutely must be trying your best to cap it for end game content.
Think we have very different idea's of improvement. Thanks for the lesson on percentages though, I missed that for the past 16 years.
[+]
What specifically do you feel Caba hands/feet/head provide on your TPing gear?
They are substantially outmatched by other pieces, they don't have any DT on them. They don't have any idle stats either like Refresh/Regen/Ragain. They don't have any multi-attack. They don't have store tp.
They are substantially outmatched by other pieces, they don't have any DT on them. They don't have any idle stats either like Refresh/Regen/Ragain. They don't have any multi-attack. They don't have store tp.
Substantially more Acc/Att/HP/Emnity/DEF than options that give more DA/STP than options that may provide one of these stats. From a pure DD perspective you are correct. In the actual game I'd take these stats over what wins on a spread sheet.
[+]
Enmity: Double attack as a stat is effectively the same as Enmitty. Hate is a function of DPS, +100 enmity will increase your threat generation exactly the same as +100 DA. However Double attack increases DPS and your threat, whereas enmity just increase threat. Therefore enmity is just a strictly worse stat to use in TPing gear.
HP is fine, but finding the balance between your TP set and your HP is important.
5/5 Relic+3 is probably extremely overkill for that goal. Especially since you will be losing tonnes of HP when you weaponskill. You basically should just aim to have the same HP as your WS set, casting sets, etc. Stacking above that is just superficial for true Tanking as a hybrid tank approach.
At best, you will lose a bit less hate to damage you take due to higher HP.
At worst, you'll mess with people cure botting you since your HP will constantly be yellow, and your mages will blow their MP like dumbasses.
Defense is... not super important to stack unless you are using Defense food.
HP is fine, but finding the balance between your TP set and your HP is important.
5/5 Relic+3 is probably extremely overkill for that goal. Especially since you will be losing tonnes of HP when you weaponskill. You basically should just aim to have the same HP as your WS set, casting sets, etc. Stacking above that is just superficial for true Tanking as a hybrid tank approach.
At best, you will lose a bit less hate to damage you take due to higher HP.
At worst, you'll mess with people cure botting you since your HP will constantly be yellow, and your mages will blow their MP like dumbasses.
Defense is... not super important to stack unless you are using Defense food.
If I was going to tank something where the set you provided was going to be remotely useful, I'd go WAR SAM or MNK and tank it.
[+]
And why is that?
War, Sam, and Mnk can't use Aegis, Ochain, or Burtgang.
So unless you are going to explain how those jobs can hit 87.5% MDT and 68% PDT, I am not seeing how any of those three jobs are special.
Run though. Run I could see being a valid job to bring up and discuss here.
War, Sam, and Mnk can't use Aegis, Ochain, or Burtgang.
So unless you are going to explain how those jobs can hit 87.5% MDT and 68% PDT, I am not seeing how any of those three jobs are special.
Run though. Run I could see being a valid job to bring up and discuss here.
Cause at the point you are at with 2200-2400 hp in your set you might as well just go another job, there is very little point to go PLD to anything outside of T3+ resin mobs maybe some higher end escha sky and dynamis wave 2 NM, wave 3,and the boss. I am not sure what you are tanking on PLD in that set but I'm going to guess its none of these things, I'd find it hard to believe you are hitting even 1000~ dps for real on anything with out some kinda gimmick on anything but a spread sheet, but cool you do you.
[+]
Shiva.Ariaum said: »
set you might as well just go another job
So you're just gonna glaze over Aegis and Ochain and Burtgang then, like reducing magic damage taken by a 75% more, a near 100% block rate, and a 36% more physical damage reduction is negligible?
Even with 2400 HP, an Aegis+Burtgang Pld will tank a million times better than a War.
And you're glazing over Paladins substantially stronger Enmity tools compared to... Sam, Mnk, War?
You seem to be holding some kind of "Well if you aren't full turtle then you go full DPS" stance.
Like its called a hybrid set for a reason.
And yes, I tank plenty of content on my hybrid set I posted. I sit at I believe 2800 HP, and that is plenty to do Omen, Dyna, Ambu VD, etc.
1. On anything you have said you aren't capping block rate w/o
reprisal/ochain.
2. With Aegis its probably floored and at best with reprisal 30-40%
(being nice here)
3. 18% Burt = 36%? Unless you are trying to convey the percentage
gained over 50%?
4. I personally pull hate off pld/run's superior hate tools without
trying often. On all of those jobs.
5. I posted a "hybrid" set that with AM3 is 50%DA 20%TA and not
counting sub more Acc/Att/HP/Emnity than what you provided,
It's also 1200+ acc with Enlight II and it's also usable for
most any content.
reprisal/ochain.
2. With Aegis its probably floored and at best with reprisal 30-40%
(being nice here)
3. 18% Burt = 36%? Unless you are trying to convey the percentage
gained over 50%?
4. I personally pull hate off pld/run's superior hate tools without
trying often. On all of those jobs.
5. I posted a "hybrid" set that with AM3 is 50%DA 20%TA and not
counting sub more Acc/Att/HP/Emnity than what you provided,
It's also 1200+ acc with Enlight II and it's also usable for
most any content.
I dont see any Da or Ta on the set you posted, if you are talking about that 5/5 relic+3 set. Maybe 10% Da on cape.
Unless you literally mean your Am3 buffs. Thats.. ok. AM3 gives Am3 buffs. Still missing a metric tonne if DA/Store Tp.
Id need to run the numbers but Im pretty sure your set has substantially lower acc than mine. Not sure though.
And yes I use PoE terms, Burt gives 18% increased PDT which means 36% more pdt after the normal 50%.
And aegis making you go from 50 to 87.5 is 75% more mdt.
So yeah, thats a lot to gloss over.
And yeah, maybe the reason you tear hate off plds is because they are wearing idle sets like that.
I dont have issues with holding hate spamming 36k~50k savage blades nonstop as pld.
Also I already covered tping in enmity gear is strictly worse than DA. 10 DA is effectively the same as 10 enmity.
Unless you literally mean your Am3 buffs. Thats.. ok. AM3 gives Am3 buffs. Still missing a metric tonne if DA/Store Tp.
Id need to run the numbers but Im pretty sure your set has substantially lower acc than mine. Not sure though.
And yes I use PoE terms, Burt gives 18% increased PDT which means 36% more pdt after the normal 50%.
And aegis making you go from 50 to 87.5 is 75% more mdt.
So yeah, thats a lot to gloss over.
And yeah, maybe the reason you tear hate off plds is because they are wearing idle sets like that.
I dont have issues with holding hate spamming 36k~50k savage blades nonstop as pld.
Also I already covered tping in enmity gear is strictly worse than DA. 10 DA is effectively the same as 10 enmity.
You are right you glossed over a lot.
My set:
* +146 Dex
* +261 acc
* +33% DA
* +1% TA
* +43 Store TP
Your set:
* 116 Dex
* +261~266 Acc
* +10% DA
* +15 Store TP
So my set has 30 Dex, 0~5 less acc depending on Unity, 23% more DA, 1% more TA, and a whopping 28 more store TP.
Your set also only has like 242 more HP, FYI. It's not a huge gap. You gave up a tonne of DPS for only 242 hp.
Also you only have 89 more defense. That's not exactly going to do you any favors. In fact against high tier end game, that may very well do literally nothing unless the monster has Att Down geo spells on it. End game nms often have their cRatio well overcapped against you, 89 defense isn't going to budge that unless you have some SERIOUS buffs
In which case you aren't getting geo buffs properly, in which case your party's dps will suck.
Sorry, but all your set has going for it is substantially shittier DPS (according to my sheet its like a 30% DPS loss), for 242 more HP, which wont even matter because as soon as you pop off a Savage Blade, all that extra HP will drop off.
* +146 Dex
* +261 acc
* +33% DA
* +1% TA
* +43 Store TP
Your set:
* 116 Dex
* +261~266 Acc
* +10% DA
* +15 Store TP
So my set has 30 Dex, 0~5 less acc depending on Unity, 23% more DA, 1% more TA, and a whopping 28 more store TP.
Your set also only has like 242 more HP, FYI. It's not a huge gap. You gave up a tonne of DPS for only 242 hp.
Also you only have 89 more defense. That's not exactly going to do you any favors. In fact against high tier end game, that may very well do literally nothing unless the monster has Att Down geo spells on it. End game nms often have their cRatio well overcapped against you, 89 defense isn't going to budge that unless you have some SERIOUS buffs
In which case you aren't getting geo buffs properly, in which case your party's dps will suck.
Sorry, but all your set has going for it is substantially shittier DPS (according to my sheet its like a 30% DPS loss), for 242 more HP, which wont even matter because as soon as you pop off a Savage Blade, all that extra HP will drop off.
If I /really/ wanted to make the set a little bit tankier without sacrificing much, I would swap out:
Sulev. Gauntlets +1 => Souv +1 (D)
Valor Hose => Souv +1 (C)
This nets me:
+236 HP (now my set is only 6 HP less than yours)
+10 defense (Now your set only has +79 def)
+15% Cure Pot Recieved
+10 Acc (Yes, thats right, now I have even MORE acc)
But I lose:
* 9% DA (ow)
* 8 Store TP (ow ow)
So yeah, Im not sure what you are on but Cab+3 gear isn't really that great. Except the body. Cab+3 body is a solid TPing body.
Sulev. Gauntlets +1 => Souv +1 (D)
Valor Hose => Souv +1 (C)
This nets me:
+236 HP (now my set is only 6 HP less than yours)
+10 defense (Now your set only has +79 def)
+15% Cure Pot Recieved
+10 Acc (Yes, thats right, now I have even MORE acc)
But I lose:
* 9% DA (ow)
* 8 Store TP (ow ow)
So yeah, Im not sure what you are on but Cab+3 gear isn't really that great. Except the body. Cab+3 body is a solid TPing body.
soralin said: »
If I /really/ wanted to make the set a little bit tankier without sacrificing much, I would swap out:
Sulev. Gauntlets +1 => Souv +1 (D)
Valor Hose => Souv +1 (C)
This nets me:
+236 HP (now my set is only 6 HP less than yours)
+10 defense (Now your set only has +79 def)
+15% Cure Pot Recieved
+10 Acc (Yes, thats right, now I have even MORE acc)
But I lose:
* 9% DA (ow)
* 8 Store TP (ow ow)
So yeah, Im not sure what you are on but Cab+3 gear isn't really that great. Except the body. Cab+3 body is a solid TPing body.
Sulev. Gauntlets +1 => Souv +1 (D)
Valor Hose => Souv +1 (C)
This nets me:
+236 HP (now my set is only 6 HP less than yours)
+10 defense (Now your set only has +79 def)
+15% Cure Pot Recieved
+10 Acc (Yes, thats right, now I have even MORE acc)
But I lose:
* 9% DA (ow)
* 8 Store TP (ow ow)
So yeah, Im not sure what you are on but Cab+3 gear isn't really that great. Except the body. Cab+3 body is a solid TPing body.
The Hp goes from 2500 in the TP set to 2100 on the savage blade set, does that create problems or its all good?
riprush2 said: »
The Hp goes from 2500 in the TP set to 2100 on the savage blade set, does that create problems or its all good?
See: https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/46016/first-and-final-line-of-defense-v20/57/#3428705
9 posts up.
But yeah. Its a problem as I outline.
Which is why stacking *** tonnes of HP is, as I said, superficial if you are taking the hybrid DPS tanking approach.
Your process really should be this:
"With capped DT, how much HP do I need to be sitting at so I dont die to a Tank Buster + 1~3 melee hits?"
Ok now make your WS set AND your TP set AND your precast set AND your cast set all stay above that threshould.
Fill in everything else with max deeps.
I find about 2400 HP is plenty to tank 95% of the game. You prolly want closer to 2800 for Dyna wave 3
soralin said: »
Ok so on the Ambuscade page for this month people were discussing how to put out proper DPS as a Paladin.
This is my 'Hybrid' paladin set I use for most content. It works exceptionally well.
ItemSet 359870
(Augmented cape with Dex+30, Acc/Att+20, DA+10%, PDT-10%)
And my Savage Blade set:
ItemSet 360396
(Augmented cape with Str+30, Acc/Att+20, WSD+10%, PDT-10%)
If you swap to Ochain, the set does lack a bit on MDT, its about I think 6~8% short? But if you are using Ochain on a fight I presume its because you don't need the MDT.
With Aegis however you will have capped MDT easily, as with Shell V + 99 Aegis you only need like 12% MDT in gear and this has much more than that.
Finally, a key thing to note, with /war Fencer trat and Moonshade Earring, you will want to pop Savage blade at around 1400 TP, not 1000! This is pretty critical to min/maxxing your DPS. Basically you want your TP Bonus to edge you up into ~2000 TP total with Savage blade!
Theoretically Sequence would be better in this build, but I like to start fights off with AM3 on Excalibur for that sweet delicious 30 tic regen and 3 tic refresh. There have been way too many fights to count (specifically anything that inflicts max hp down, curse, etc) where that 30 tic regen is super clutch in not dying. This months ambuscade is a great example.
But honestly any of the DREAM weapons for paladin are totally acceptable, including Naegling and Moralltach. They will all perform not that big of a difference from each other, though if you want to max out your DPS, Sequence is technically the best, then Naegling second, then Burtgang, then Excalibur, and Almace last.
For Savage Blade spam at least.
This is my 'Hybrid' paladin set I use for most content. It works exceptionally well.
ItemSet 359870
(Augmented cape with Dex+30, Acc/Att+20, DA+10%, PDT-10%)
And my Savage Blade set:
ItemSet 360396
(Augmented cape with Str+30, Acc/Att+20, WSD+10%, PDT-10%)
If you swap to Ochain, the set does lack a bit on MDT, its about I think 6~8% short? But if you are using Ochain on a fight I presume its because you don't need the MDT.
With Aegis however you will have capped MDT easily, as with Shell V + 99 Aegis you only need like 12% MDT in gear and this has much more than that.
Finally, a key thing to note, with /war Fencer trat and Moonshade Earring, you will want to pop Savage blade at around 1400 TP, not 1000! This is pretty critical to min/maxxing your DPS. Basically you want your TP Bonus to edge you up into ~2000 TP total with Savage blade!
Theoretically Sequence would be better in this build, but I like to start fights off with AM3 on Excalibur for that sweet delicious 30 tic regen and 3 tic refresh. There have been way too many fights to count (specifically anything that inflicts max hp down, curse, etc) where that 30 tic regen is super clutch in not dying. This months ambuscade is a great example.
But honestly any of the DREAM weapons for paladin are totally acceptable, including Naegling and Moralltach. They will all perform not that big of a difference from each other, though if you want to max out your DPS, Sequence is technically the best, then Naegling second, then Burtgang, then Excalibur, and Almace last.
For Savage Blade spam at least.
What are the minimum viable augments to aim for on the Odyss. body and hands in order for them to beat out other options?
Asura.Solara said: »
What are the minimum viable augments to aim for on the Odyss. body and hands in order for them to beat out other options?
The reason to use Odyssean pieces is WSdmg. The catch is pDIF since PLD doesn't have a lot of attack to begin with and doesn't always get buffed like DPS.
To answer your question you want WSdmg 4-5%, acc/att and typically STR.
Relic+3 is also good for the attack values that come with it.
Thats what I am currently rocking for augments on my Savage Blade gear.
Generally aim for stat+10~15 wsd+4 acc/atk with taupe on any of my 1 hit ws augs
what numbers savage blade are you getting from that set? and don't we want fern stones for augment or I have been doing it wrong ._.? in what order would you guys R15 your REMA swords?
I'm hitting about 14~17k Savage Blades with standard geo+brd+cor buffs.
It's nothing crazy but alongside wars and Sam's I was account for a solid 15% of the parse often. Nothing to scoff at.
And that includes my downtime popping off a AM3 Knights for the regen before savage blade spamming.
It's nothing crazy but alongside wars and Sam's I was account for a solid 15% of the parse often. Nothing to scoff at.
And that includes my downtime popping off a AM3 Knights for the regen before savage blade spamming.
I assume STR & wsd augs on the pants too? and silly question about why red trousers over odyssean?
andy1110 said: »
and don't we want fern stones for augment or I have been doing it wrong ._.?
Both fern and taupe work if the goals a 1 hit WS aug, but for most WS having that extra 5 stat(or any stat at all) will overtake the extra 1% WSD fern provides, now if you can hit a 10 stat high acc/atk +5 WSD augment with fern, then oseem bless you.
andy1110 said: »
I assume STR & wsd augs on the pants too? and silly question about why red trousers over odyssean?
Savage is 50% STR. Fern 10str 5wsdmg would beat taupe 15str 4wsdmg.
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