~First And Final Line Of Defense V2.0~

is it still beneficial in todays endgame content to use HPDown sets when self curing?

depends on if you have enough buffs to take 0 dmg(low dmg). some fights you will, some you wont

HP+/Enmity in your cure potency setup might be safer

I would argue all of this, shields are situational

counter argument:
I don't think that ochain is better. Let's ignore block rate for a second, Priwen does allow you to cap DT-% with less and gain superior DEF in comparison to Ochain. You can hit 0dmg builds by stacking more DEF and /BLU + Phalanx on most everything lower than Tier3 Reisenjima/HELM. Ochain gives you block rate which doesnt matter if youre getting hit for 0.

Argument for Ochain:
low buff situations just for shield mastery tp gain
or
solo holding physical dmg adds without support (Divine Might??Lol)

Reality:Aegis is king for high level content, on low level content noone really cares cuz its low level lol.

Cure 4 is actually one of the best way to build aggro.

How is the enmity gain of Cure III vs Cure IV while the HP healed on Cure4 isn't maxed? Edit: Martel has answered below.
ItemSet 340136
This set gives HP: 2,895, Enmity: 62, CurePotency: 49%, CureReceived: 38%, DT: 26, PDT: 11 (37 w/DT)
ItemSet 346931
This set gives 2,302HP & 78 FC.
The HP difference between the sets is 593.

In the LowHP FC set I can swap etiolation to loquac and drop the Oneiros belt. For the cure set I could swap etiolation to odnowa NQ and use Meridian + Eihwaz ring. This would build my Cure4 cheat up to 908 possible HP. My maximum Cure4 amount is 1102 so this is still a ways off.

Nevermind, I've found a way to Cure4 myself for 1102 HP using a Cure4 cheat. I also managed to add 87 more HP, 15 enmity, 6 DT, and 5 PDT to my cureset for a total of stats of 2,982 HP (non-escha), +49% cure potency, +30% cure received, +77 enmity, -32% DT, -16% PDT. Pretty sweet imo! I'll post the sets once I field test them some more incase anyone is interested. Unfortunately the guide doesn't have sets like this, idk why, it kinda sorta makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong, lol. ^^;

Cure3: 598HP / 46 MP = 13 HP per MP spent
Cure4: 1,102 HP / 88 MP = 12.6 HP per MP spent

So I guess there's little reason to use one or the other if only considering MP efficiency. I'll just consider a combination of my current HP level, spike vs steady hate, and how dangerous losing over 1.1k HP in my FC is on the current mob when choosing which cure to use.

I'll go ahead an assume your math is correct in regards to enmity to MP, and even if Cure IV isn't as much 'bang for your buck', I don't think there's going to be ever an instance where I would use Cure III over IV. I want to maintain as high as possible enmity, and sacrificing 370 enmity to save 42 MP seems terrible IMO. If you're worried about MP, I think you need better support or maybe use a temp or something. That's just my 2 cents anyway.

The pursuit of "maintain as high as possible enmity" will be severely hindered by running out of MP and so of course MP use is something to consider, if only mostly due to no more MP for flashes. If there was a 500MP spell that gave the same enmity as provoke then I know people wouldn't be saying "dude, just spam it 100%, it gives hate". No, we would only be using that spell situationally - not always. Hate gained per MP is always a consideration, even if it's not always an apparent factor in how we pick and choose our enmity tools. In this case it looks like it'll be the same enmity per MP for either cure for me and so I'll end up considering spiking enmity vs steady enmity and/or my current HP values when choosing which spell to cast.

Where are you getting this? I need to go slap the stupid outta whatever page says that.

cures 1-4 and curaga 1-4 all have identical enmity properties.

The CE gained is based on the target's level and the amount cured, then modified by enmity gear,JAs, etc. I'd get into exact numbers, but hell if I can recall the enmity modifier for lvl 99 after they've changed it so many times, and I don't have access to my spreadsheets atm(at work.)

If your cure 3 and cure 4 heal the same amount then they generate the same enmity before enmity gear/ja modification.

Darnit, lol. I guess I used Cure3 & 4's cure amount 'Base Value' and 'Multiplier' and plugged them into a theoretical enmity calculation. How brilliant of me, lol :( I felt like that was seeming too good to be true. I'll edit my earlier post so that people don't get confused into following my confused math.

Thanks Martel!

Ahhh, I get it now. You're looking at the base value and modifier for cure potency. Those have to do with determining how much you cure. They aren't direct enmity modifiers.

btw, fast and rough number, but the enmity modifier value for a level 99 player is going to something roughly like * 0.232. I can't quote exact, cause I can't recall after all they times they nerfed it. but it's something like that. again Disclaimer! not exact numbers

So if you cure for 600.

600 * 0.232 = 139 CE/834 VE before enmity gear.(the ve is the CE x6, iirc for cures)

Lets say +70 enmity in gear and + 30 from crusade for =100 enmity;

139*2= 278 CE and
834*2=1668 VE

It's actually still a significant chunk of total enmity. it's just heavily tilted towards VE. Makes for good spikes though, and it's a good enmity builder during sentinel.

But if flash was up, I'd be casting it first.

Thanks Martel, very useful.

All HP values are from outside of Escha zones. No HP vorseals, expect +200-440 HP with vorseals depending on blessings and amount of HP vorseals, I guess. Vorseals will also raise cure amount around 10 due to MND.

These are the sets I came up wtih for for some 587 and 1102 Cure3 and Cure4 cheats that also have 3k HP in the cure set along with 77 enmity, 32 DT, and 16 PDT. What do you think, have I overlooked something?

Cure3 FastCast
ItemSet 346931
HP: 2,392, FC: 76 // The Cape has 10FC & 80 HP
(Maybe 78 fastcast if FC7 augments exist on Odyssean. 1-1.5k stones so far and haven't seen it once)

Cure4 FastCast
ItemSet 346951
HP: 1,872, FC: 76 // The cape has 10 FC & no HP

Cure Midcast
ItemSet 346964
HP: 2,982, Enmity: 77, Potency: 49%, Received: 30%, DT: 32, PDT: 16, BDT: 7

The HP difference for cure3 is exactly 590, potency 587. The HP difference for cure4 is exactly 1,110, potency 1102. The cureset midcasts in 48% combined -damage for physical and -39% for breath. I've basically lost 8 HP cure amount from my previous cure midcast in cure3's case but gained 87 max HP, 15 enmity, 6 DT, and 5 PDT. I am guessing I'm around 20-30 HP away from max cure amount but I've only spent 20-30 HP cured to gain almost max -DT plus quite a bit of HP and enmity. Pretty good tradeoff, no? Why get 1shot while curing and why be stuck at low HP after curing due to Idle having tons more HP than Micast?

I have a feeling that's pretty good unless I've overlooked something! Doesn't hurt to not get 1shot if you decide to cast cure with foolish timing. We'll all do it at some (many) points. On the note of safety, the cure4 cheat is kinda dangerous so I'll make it so I can choose when to use it or not. I'll likely not use it on dangerous NMs or dangerous phases of NMs and I'll also use it when my HP is already below that amount to begin with.

Who else has some curesets? I figured that since cure hasn't been discussed since page 14, 8 months ago, that it wouldn't be too bad to ask about it now especially since we have better gear options now - them capes! I tend to overlook stuff so I'd love some input. Maybe I can reach 3100HP and -50% PDT yet in my cureset! lol (without giving up any vital stats like potency, enmity, or -damages!). I have 2,982 and basically 48% now.

Thanks!

What?! No comments on curesets? D:

Well, using Martel's suggested enmity values, the enmity values would roughly be as follows.

Before gear/merits enmity
587 HP Cure3 = 136 CE / 817 VE
1,102 HP Cure4 = 255 CE / 1,533 VE

Provoke = 1 CE / 1,800 VE
Flash = 180 CE / 1,280 VE

Wow, a 1.1k HP Cure4 cheat is stronger than flash! It DOES cost 3.5x as much MP to cast, though, so it's not an end-all to enmity gain ofc. I'm glad I decided to look into this more and build that MinHP FC set. o.o

The first page of the guide doesn't touch on enmity in such intimate ways and so I'm having to learn the finer details of our tools through trial, error, and research; perhaps mostly through error, lol. D: Does anyone have some additional advanced tips and tricks to share on enmity gain not listed in detail in this guide? As a budding PLD I'm quite interested in this kind of info.

Right now, as far as enmity tips, I basically know of only:
-Do as many enmity actions as possible during sentinel
-Wear enmity on job abilities, not just "normal" enmity actions (voke, flash). this was a no brainer though
-Enmity in idle(tank) set helps reduce enmity loss from damage taken (maybe just a rumor?)
-Maxed cure4 cheat mimics flash
-sub /blu for multi-target enmity gain needs (and have a 102% interrupt set for casting long-cast AoE spells ideally)
-I don't believe much in melee'n for enmity on highlevel content
-Wear high HP for reduced enmity loss from damage taken; 1800 × Damage Taken ÷ Maximum HP
--- 50 HP damage: @2900HP max: -31 CE // @3500HP max: -25 CE. 24% reduction to enmity lost! woohoo!
-Keep crusade up (of course)

What am I missing? Thanks guys!

(on a side note..
Hrm... I wonder how viable using Creed Collar and Chevalier Cuisses +1 in your tank set is, as they have the "Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage." effect. I guess it would mostly depend on the duration of your fight. If it's a short fight then there likely isn't enough time for the relatively increased rate of enmity loss to overpower your spiked hate.

Would the "-12" of those pants make the -CE in the above 50 damage example be reduced to 13 or would it rather be -12%, reducing it to, I guess, 22? If it would reduce it to 13 that'd be good for low damage but less noteworthy for higher damage, mostly inferior to 12% once damage exceeds 300, assuming 3.5k HP in tank gear, which shouldn't happen often for auto-attacks. I wonder if it's a flat 12 or a %, and also what Creed Collar's reduction value is.

Right now I'm using Warder's charm +1 and Souv+1 legs in most cases. As for swapping the neck, I guess it'll just depend on the triviality of said content, though I am losing 8 worn enmity. Souv+1 legs only have 55 HP over Chevalier+1, though they do have 9 more enmity. I have 36 DT 16 PDT 7 MDT 7 BDT... So swapping the legs would mainly affect -BDT, dropping it from 43% to 39%. I'd rather it be capped to begin with, though. I guess that's where weatherspoon rather than vocane hits me hardest. Idc much about the knock-back aspect of it. If it wasn't for PLD on this char this would likely never happen, but.. I might become a vocane user after all....

ItemSet 347001

I'd go into detail here, but my accounts aren't active right now, and I don't have access to my enmity spreadsheet right now. And I will admit a certain amount of laziness when I think about digging into my sets and mathing.

So I'll just go over the differences in how we gear for cure cheats.

Basically, I don't factor DT at all. I gear entirely for enmity effect on mine.

Perhaps the mindset is an old holdover from when /nin was the mainstay, and you used cures when you were safe behind shadows(and cause /nin had nothing else to pull hate with...)

Basically, I don't use curecheats if I feel there's any threat of being oneshotted from reduced HP/lowered DT. But when I do use them, I can pack a lot of extra enmity+ in.

I do think that a good DT balance is a pretty good way of doing things as well, though.

Might be worth it for me to look into making an alternate set and a toggle to switch between them.
This is fact.It was in the update notes from SE.

The thing is, we have no idea how much each point of enmity+ affects CE loss, and if and where the reduction caps.

CE loss is a serious *** to test.
I can only see these being significant in a fight where you are unable to act for extended periods after building initial enmity. Other wise you should be able to rebuild faster than anything can make you lose enmity(excepting actual partial and full hate resets. I doubt these reductions affect those.)
Very true. Enmity wise, dmg is crap enmity on high end targets. And for PLD to do much DMG you have to be getting very significant buffs. Not happening in a lot of setups.
While blue spells are useful for this, cures can serve as well. Once you've tagged all targets, a self target spell like cure will generate enmity for every mob on the PLD's hate list. Basically the equivalent of flashga, enmity wise.(I still want real flashga though!)

The real advantage of BLU spells in this case is that they have stronger CE gain. nearly all /BLU enmity spells have 320 CE base. compare that to flash's 180, or your 1.1k cure IV's 255. and the spells have low MP costs.

For single target enmity, Blank gaze does 320/320 CE/VE, 25 mp cost and a 10 recast(before haste). going to be more like 3 seconds buffs+gear. You can literally spam that as fast as it's possible to cast spells.

So you spike your VE up with flash and cures, then build up CE with blank gaze spam, throwing in flash when up to keep VE up. That being said, for CE to matter much, you have to have a fight that actually lasts that long. So limited application, perhaps. Still. good tool. (oh, and Jettatura makes for a neat pseudo flash, if weaker enmity wise, and with a really long recast. Still nice for stacking up during sentinel though)

hey all, i can't remember the name or where it's from but there is a back piece with like 140 HP on it (not the 1 from kirin) anyonw know?

High HP backs that I can recall...

Reiki Cloak: +130
Aenoth Mantle +1: +120
Strendu Mantle: +110
Trepidity Mantle: +100
Xucau Mantle: +100

I can't think of anything that has +140 on back slot.

thx martel.

Here are my DT sets~

~Majority of content I just sit in this set:
ItemSet 347616
Souveran Head, Hands Path D | Legs, Feet Path C
Rudianos's Mantle: VIT+20, ACC & ATK+20, MEVA+10, Enmity+10

~Apex, High Level Content set when wanting to contribute DMG:
ItemSet 347617
Rudianos's Mantle: DEX+20, ACC+30, ATK+20, DA+10

~High Level content with more ACC if wanting to contribute DMG:
ItemSet 347619
Rudianos's Mantle: DEX+20, ACC+30, ATK+20, DA+10

Note: LowACC and HighACC both still cap PDT/MDT through Burtgang and Aegis, BDT is the only one left @ -37%(-39% on HighACC). Majority of stuff you fight anyway doesn't have breath attacks so it's not a big deal for me to try and cap that for these sets.

What are you guys currently using for Aeolian edge cleaving? Several pieces seem automatically in, but I browsed through the pages and havent seen anything recent posted.

I haven't upgraded my Aeolian set in a while since hitting 2100 I kinda didn't care anymore, but here is what I still have in my lua. I think a lot of the stuff still beats trying to get max augs on Odyssean.

ItemSet 347703

Obviously some upgrades is things like Ambuscade cape now and carmine +1 pieces.

Since Aeonic sword and shield have been out for a while now. Are they useful for paladin in a clutch situation or just overall not worth the time?

Shield is a waste of time (probably only good for looks and still ugly as ***)

I have put the Aeonic sword a little low on my priority list for Aeonics. I have been curious though of how well pld/war would do with it and a Blurred shield +1 in terms of damage using Savage Blade. Been curious if it can compete as well as RUN in situations that people are using RUN for damage. Granted I know in these situations some people are using RUN for one for all rotations etc on top of the damage it can provide.

What would be a good baseline to reach for in terms of acc/DT to solo VD AA merit fights?

Im about 30 horns away from finishing my ochain, should be done this weekend. Next up is getting my D ring, aside from that I'm pretty close to 40% DT, 50% when I get my ring.

What should I be aiming for to hit this point so I can spam VD AA fights and solo intense ambuscade for the gil to fund my best in slot upgrades?

Edit: I was also chatting with some LS members about Found. Breastplate's "Augments Killer Effects" ability. Because this ability's DT is applied after normal DT calculations, it allows you to obtain DT over the cap.

For each killer effect of the basic 6 (aquan/beast/bird/plant/vermin/lizard) there's a Killer+12 HQ cookie you can eat. Combined with found. breastplate this makes these cookies grant you +6% damage vs the type and -6% DT that goes over the cap.

Assuming you cap out 68% PDT with Burtgang, the cookie will effectively put you at 70% PDT, (6% less damage taken)

Aegis+cookie will make you go from 87.5% to 88.25 (6% less)

I think this has serious application as the best in slot for situations where you will be going up against a very specific species type, IE farming an escha NM over and over.

Furthermore I think the +12 killer effect shouldn't be undervalued, +12 Killer is comparable, and even better than "occasionally annuls damage+12%" (4% VS NMs) because not only does it block the attack, but it also protects your party members from it too.

This effectively translates Found. Breastplate to really read the following:

"Occasionally Annuls damage+2"
"Cookie: Occasionally Annuls damage +12 (+4 Vs NMs), damage taken III -6% (4% vs NM), Damage+6% (4% vs NM)"

And if you are against an undead it becomes even more pronounced as paladin, for obvious reasons.

I've worked out an effective build that can cap PDT/MDT with Shell V while using Found. Breastplate too.

ItemSet 347785

34% DT
16% PDT
24% MDT from Shell V puts you over MDT cap

If you are using Nixxer instead of Burtgang, you can swap out Staunch Tathlum and Genmei earring for alternatives, I might go with Killer shortbow myself for this build. If you are using Flyssa+1 you can do the same and also swap Macabre Gauntlets for Founder's gauntlets. This will net you a total of +16 Killer with food, which is effectively 54% PDT (obviously not as good as burtgang but not half bad)

Factoring in the 16% Annul rate (5% vs NM) with that also puts you at a total of effectively -61% (-56.3% VS NM) damage taken (on average), which is pretty huge, on top of +8% damage dealt (+5% vs nm).

It's important to note it instantly loses a lot of its power in any fight where your killer effect doesn't apply, like sinister Reign. I'd go with something totally different for those fights. Dragons, Demons, Arcana, Humanoids, Beastmen, etc etc all don't care about this build really, though Red curry buns and dragon soups are actually good foods already and they have killer traits as well.

This build also really shines against birds, as we can add a lot of bird killer to the build via Zwazo Earring NQ+HQ, which nets bird killer+9, as well as actually really solid stats on top of that (19 acc and 10 str), which makes the earrings pretty good all around.

That translates to about an additional 4.5% DT/Dmg vs normal birds and 3% DT/Dmg vs bird NMs, on top of the intimidation rate.

tl;dr: This build REALLY shines if you are pulling for cleaving, especially if the majority of your pull is the same species.

Anyone have an updated GS they use for pld?

PLD.lua

Mote-include

Looking at the new reforged Artifact +3 Paladin set and all Skjalf can say is... what a conundrum... lol

So much evasion and accuracy and a lot of other stats are higher, but the damage reduction and a lot of HP lost... /sigh. Obviously people will use pieces for Job Ability macros and spellcasting. It is a real shame that we don't have more Shield Mastery on the hands. ; ;

Will the new armor have augment paths?

Where do I get BuffWatcher, I cant find any information about it