SMN is not a DD. It's SP allows it to burst crazy damage now, but otherwise it gets to do 1 big Weaponskill every 22 seconds. The advantage being it's from ranged safety and basically TP-less to the mob.
It's pretty much like COR, a hybrid DD/Support. In a normalish a party setup, it's going to keep up a few buffs, like Haste2 and Crystal Blessing, while doing some damage with Ifrit or Ramuh but parsing below the 1 or 2 real DD, while using that Favor as an additional party buff. What sets it apart from COR is that it can also MB pretty much as hard as a BLM, and offers tons of other utlility for niche situations.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that AF/AC strats aren't currently OP as hell. The discussion is moreso around at his point in the game's life cycle, if that matters.
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Not to mention, the difference between SMN and the other pet jobs is also insane. I have amazing gear for my PUP, and the last time I went to Zitah on PUP for Aeonics I think I parsed like .5 to 1%, and the two SMNS were doing like 25% and 30%. This is with other DDs there. (Was using Automaton only)
Pups are amazing tanks though.
Brixy's ideas of a change is still my favorite.
Remove the resummon penalties so favor always grants a flat duration reduction bonus and is always at max potency so we aren't penalized for swapping pets.
Add charges to our bp timer so we can use ward more often and become a better support/healer
Go back and scale up the old ward buffs that didn't scale (ie: Fenrir's buffs, Earthern ward, etc)
Fix Damage output for avatars other than Ramuh, Ifrit and Garuda to promote summon variety and perhaps work this into any nerf they do with AC zerg, whereby using different BPs will see reduction in diminishing returns.
Add an offensive debuff bubble that's the opposite of avatar's favor, so we can switch stances depending on the need.
That's my ideal SMN tbh.
Brixy's ideas of a change is still my favorite.
Remove the resummon penalties so favor always grants a flat duration reduction bonus and is always at max potency so we aren't penalized for swapping pets.
Add charges to our bp timer so we can use ward more often and become a better support/healer
Go back and scale up the old ward buffs that didn't scale (ie: Fenrir's buffs, Earthern ward, etc)
Fix Damage output for avatars other than Ramuh, Ifrit and Garuda to promote summon variety and perhaps work this into any nerf they do with AC zerg, whereby using different BPs will see reduction in diminishing returns.
Add an offensive debuff bubble that's the opposite of avatar's favor, so we can switch stances depending on the need.
That's my ideal SMN tbh.
I would be in complete favor of making AC give a 5 sec CD between pacts while making Ifrit's Warcry a 20% attack buff, and adding 250 more bonus to Crystal Blessing. It would enhance the normal PT Hybrid role by making it a better buffer while leaving it's damage unhchanged, while taking a big bite out of the burn strats.
That being said, I go back to what I said a few pages ago, I think they can let it live in it's OP state. Players who enjoy doing it other ways can, and we keep the subscription fees coming in for those who want the easy mode Aeonics.
That being said, I go back to what I said a few pages ago, I think they can let it live in it's OP state. Players who enjoy doing it other ways can, and we keep the subscription fees coming in for those who want the easy mode Aeonics.
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Leviathan.Sidra said: »
I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that AF/AC strats are currently OP as hell. The discussion is moreso around at his point in the game's life cycle, if that matters.
Half the people in this and every thread say conduit is not OP (the ones abusing it).
And it -always- matters. Regardless how old it is, if people are still subbing, being broken is unacceptable. (a certain level of brokenness is inevitable)
Now if we talk about p2w and f2p then conduit fits in perfectly, pay a dollar and reset your sp without even having to zone.
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Leviathan.Sidra said: »
I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that AF/AC strats are currently OP as hell. The discussion is moreso around at his point in the game's life cycle, if that matters.
Half the people in this and every thread say conduit is not OP (the ones abusing it).
And it -always- matters. Regardless how old it is, if people are still subbing, being broken is unacceptable. (a certain level of brokenness is inevitable)
I think it is OP, but it's not the only OP thing in the game.
Right now, for current content, its very effective. SE can and always reserves right to release future content that makes certain strategies less viable without straight nerfing a job. They did it with RDM and can do it with SMN and BLU too.
But I think calls for a nerf should be presented in a more thoughtful way. Because I see a lot of posts coming a place of pure hate, and i'm not sure if people actually hate me personally as SMN or what, but it's not a good place to start a discussion.
Fight fire with fire.
It's impossible to discuss it any other way. The first post after you lay it out in specific detail as to exactly why it's broken is met with NUH UH I UZ IT AND ITZ NOT BORKEN
It's impossible to argue from any standpoint its not ruining the game (for everyone). But some people just don't get it. (or more honestly, *** about it while abusing it.)
It's impossible to discuss it any other way. The first post after you lay it out in specific detail as to exactly why it's broken is met with NUH UH I UZ IT AND ITZ NOT BORKEN
It's impossible to argue from any standpoint its not ruining the game (for everyone). But some people just don't get it. (or more honestly, *** about it while abusing it.)
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Fight fire with fire.
It's impossible to discuss it any other way. The first post after you lay it out in specific detail as to exactly why it's broken is met with NUH UH I UZ IT AND ITZ NOT BORKEN
It's impossible to discuss it any other way. The first post after you lay it out in specific detail as to exactly why it's broken is met with NUH UH I UZ IT AND ITZ NOT BORKEN
Don't think I've personally said that. I always agree when points are brought forward specifically about AC.
But I more often than not see career blus complaining that only SMN needs to be nerfed while deflecting any attempt to characterize their job as OP. Or dps jobs complaining they had to spend an extra 300million gil to do good damage when a SMN can beat them in one very specific instance where they use their 1hr. Those are just self serving and spiteful.
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What else is OP right now? BLU is between 5-9 in the DD hierarchy. Nothing compares to SMN AC/AF. Top DD by a WIDE margin, hateless, out of range, feeds no TP, and kills almost every monster in the game in under 30 seconds lol.
See this is the crux of the whole thing. You have to be objective. None of them are.
You cannot be a blu and say blu isn't OP, you're benefiting specifically from it being OP, your opinion is void.
This is the exact same thing for SMN, if you own a Nirvana your opinion is tainted on the subject.
If you play neither, you can objectively say what is out of balance.
You cannot be a blu and say blu isn't OP, you're benefiting specifically from it being OP, your opinion is void.
This is the exact same thing for SMN, if you own a Nirvana your opinion is tainted on the subject.
If you play neither, you can objectively say what is out of balance.
Leviathan.Stamos said: »
What else is OP right now? BLU is between 5-9 in the DD hierarchy. Nothing compares to SMN AC/AF. Top DD by a WIDE margin, hateless, out of range, feeds no TP, and kills almost every monster in the game in under 30 seconds lol.
Not going to retread the discussion. You can go back and read a few pages or 10 where it was pointed out when you can bring blu to every situation and they can dps just fine, this maximum flexibility is inherently what is OP about it. Can't do that with THF, RNG, DRK or any other dps class.
And Geo, as a debuffer is massively OP. It's always funny when every one begging for an AC nerf only talks about needing to remove SMN as the top dps, but Geo is left in in every single set-up they have in mind in the post-OP SMN world.
It's really fascinating that this escapes people calling for a nerf and highlights the issue is about DPS envy not game or job balance.
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Afania said: »
Lol, we have 10 pages of debate/drama about SMN nerf because conduit lowers T4 content difficulty. And now we have people asking for hp scaling removal so the difficulty can get even lower.
I don't think the complaint is so much that SMN lowers the difficulty of the Aeonic questline as the state of the game is so imbalanced that some jobs are much more suited to walking out of a mog house than others.
I mean, if you check the profiles of the dozen people and their sock accounts participating in this conversation, I assume most if not all have several Aeonic weapons. The majority of which have not used SMNs to get them (or all of them). With much thanks to several posters here, we don't know everything about the T4s but we certainly know enough to reliably take them down.
This old content isn't hard. Beat it with MNKs if you have more time and wealth, if that is what makes you happy. Beat it with SMNs if you have less time and wealth. Beat it with WARs and DRKs and RNGs and BLMs and THFs and DNCs if you love any of those jobs.
I'm surprised people are wasting their energy trying to preserve the sanctity of this ancient content. There are far more important topics worthy of debate (not that our feelings or opinions will change anything).
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Objectivity. People are single focused.
There are a LOT of things broken right now, SMN just being the MOST broken.(actually, honestly, sparks is probably the most broken thing in the game at the moment... all truth be told)
There are a LOT of things broken right now, SMN just being the MOST broken.(actually, honestly, sparks is probably the most broken thing in the game at the moment... all truth be told)
Leviathan.Stamos said: »
Not to mention, the difference between SMN and the other pet jobs is also insane. I have amazing gear for my PUP, and the last time I went to Zitah on PUP for Aeonics I think I parsed like .5 to 1%, and the two SMNS were doing like 25% and 30%. This is with other DDs there. (Was using Automaton only)
If you have amazing gear for PUP and using sharpshot to end with 0.5% to 1% of total damage, you are doing something terribly wrong.
If you were using valoredge, that's normal dmg, i dont expect a tank to do 30% vs pazuzu or the fairies, i expect them to hold hate and survive.
Your statement like here like many others in this thread are either wrong by ignorance or by purpose with the goal of fueling the SMN hammering lol.
The fights were not long enough for my Automaton to do enough DMG. This was the whole zone, so a lot of the t1-t2s skewed the parse. Was not just two SMNs as DDS, had fully buffed DD party as well.
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Objectivity. People are single focused.
There are a LOT of things broken right now, SMN just being the MOST broken.
There are a LOT of things broken right now, SMN just being the MOST broken.
By an absolutely obscene margin.
Asura.Kjelle said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Objectivity. People are single focused.
There are a LOT of things broken right now, SMN just being the MOST broken.
There are a LOT of things broken right now, SMN just being the MOST broken.
By an absolutely obscene margin.
So obscene that the only permanent slot in any content is a Geo.
Hyperbole much?
If the fight only lasts a few seconds, the fact that SMN only do 1 WS every 22 seconds is moot. They crush easy content, I can sometimes Apogee Flaming Crush the RuAnn T1s dead before a mele even builds tp. The fight has to have some duration for them to lose out to the mele.
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^ that.
Not to mention, with so many people you cannot use Inhibitor or Speedloaders.
Not to mention, with so many people you cannot use Inhibitor or Speedloaders.
Bismarck.Dekusutaa said: »
Asura.Kjelle said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Objectivity. People are single focused.
There are a LOT of things broken right now, SMN just being the MOST broken.
There are a LOT of things broken right now, SMN just being the MOST broken.
By an absolutely obscene margin.
So obscene that the only permanent slot in any content is a Geo.
Hyperbole much?
Frailty is pretty broken though.
Sylph.Cherche said: »
Partially addressed by bard buffs and the trend of nms ignoring rebuff bubbles.
Frailty is pretty broken though.
Frailty is pretty broken though.
That's true but only for very recent content like Ambush and maybe the new dynamis. The same is true for SMN. The job hasn't been required or even desired for many ambush runs due to the different gimmicks SE is pushing out. So why does Geo get a pass in this case but not SMN.
Leviathan.Stamos said: »
The issue really is just you avoid every mechanic in the game by these monsters. The difference between AC/AF vs the next strat is night and day.
Not really, any sort of melee zerg is pretty much the same deal. Hit hard and fast as possible and hopefully the target drops before you do. It makes me laugh when people act like switching jobs suddenly escalates the amount of technique required. Smashing Teles with a bunch of THF is not some quantum leap in complexity; it requires a Larceny order and that's it. Gimmick bypassed legitimately, and target dead in seconds.
Teles still takes like a minute or two. No other set up can kill Schah the way Summoners do.
lol and every other helm minus Zerde?
Not sure why people are so uptight about calling it broken.(Guess you deleted your post lol)
Not sure why people are so uptight about calling it broken.(Guess you deleted your post lol)
Ragnarok.Inx said: »
Smashing Teles with a bunch of THF is not some quantum leap in complexity; it requires a Larceny order and that's it. Gimmick bypassed legitimately, and target dead in seconds.
You're at minimum 9 people(3 thfs, 4 support, tank, whm). The preparation is significantly more complicated. You have a greater chance of loss. You take 4x as long.
No matter which NM you look at, SMN has a gigantic advantage.
Caerda said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Ragnarok.Inx said: »
Smashing Teles with a bunch of THF is not some quantum leap in complexity; it requires a Larceny order and that's it. Gimmick bypassed legitimately, and target dead in seconds.
You're at minimum 9 people(3 thfs, 4 support, tank, whm). The preparation is significantly more complicated. You have a greater chance of loss. You take 4x as long.
No matter which NM you look at, SMN has a gigantic advantage.
You do realize all those support can drop before pop right?
"you require this many people"
>> yeah that's true but they don't need to be in the party
?????
>> yeah that's true but they don't need to be in the party
?????
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