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what point?

Don't worry, no one will see it and continue to say how bad they do on blu compared to their other jobs.

And nothing will change either way.


Case in point

blus power isn't in its own output especially this month, but what it does for the groups dmg and Survivability, case in point try 4blu rdm and whm vrs blu blu whm rdm war (another DD tho i recommend dnc rune or nin)and see how things play out tho this is assuming competent players in all groups. also something from a bit earlier in this discussion you wanna talk about a job that you can read a guide and make it do super well look more at sam, still the easiest job to pick up and to get up to b+ just after that they hit a wall.

I think you get wrecked if you tried the third setup on any difficulty above Normal.

Done D 5blu rdm. No one had zona either. 5blu sch as well.

Fast? Not really. Innundation with mixed DD is faster.

Easy? very. Only healer requires "some effort"

This is by design. I don't know why people keep thinking it's a "master of all trades." It's not. It's a jack of all trades, meaning it can function at an acceptable level in most roles, but is not the best at any. This is true. It's not the best dps outside of very low buff situations, it can heal but is by NO means the best healer (enmity is an issue since it has no native enmity- abilities or traits, and AoE heals are all caster-centered and take a lot of mp), it can cleave very well but so can other jobs, and its best nukes are caster-centered, and all blu nukes can only MB with the use of a 2min CD job ability, it can tank pretty well but not better than a RUN or PLD.

And I also don't know what wal-mart blus you guys are playing with. The ones I've played with have been absolute ***, their only saving grace being that they can Diffusion+Mighty Guard to help the rest of the party survive and cap haste. BLU actually has a pretty harsh learning curve compared to other jobs, in that you have to understand how to optimize traits and spells for a situation, which is more confusing than other jobs because your traits are just given to you and all you have to do is understand your JAs and how gear-swapping works. It's just lucky that the BLU community is freakin' AMAZINGLY helpful.

It's a very useful job in a lot of situations. It is not the best answer to every situation. It can do things specialists cannot, but also cannot do specialized things as well as the specialists. The job is versatility incarnate. That is its niche. Deal with it.

I have about 105k thm on DRG this month, and not sure why it's not being mentioned. Angon is really strong for team DPS when pdif is not capped, and we have high natural attack, defense, and accuracy, combined with friendly skillchaining. I eat Red Curry on D while most other people are eating sushi. I could be wrong on this, but I would venture to say I have a higher natural attack than any other job in this scenario. And the Wyvern JA Haste is huge because I fulltime Seigan/TE, so would not be capped without it. Have done a lot of DRG DRG WAR BLU RDM WHM.

However I will say what I say all the time - I think the community makes way too much of a deal over this. As long as there is a RDM or SMN in the Party, any 4 properly geared and played DDs will work just fine. Get all your friends on the job they want to play and go to town. I have given my DNC some run as well.

To add fuel to the BLU fire, we also actually ran some D with 2xBLU at one point. No RDM, the BLUs slept and one Diffusioned Haste 2.

PSA to all DRG: Don't be a *** and Super Jump. Eat your fair share of terrors. Play nice!

It can be the best DPS.
It can heal.
It can cleave.
It can tank pretty well.
It can do things specialists cannot.

That's exactly what a master of all trades is.

A jack of all trades, master of none would be RDM.
It cannot be the best DPS, unless it is the only DPS.
It can heal.
It can't cleave.
It has been nerfed, so can't hold enmity even when it wants to.
It has recently become relevant due to how hard SE is trying to push GEO down. Before that, even what was unique to the job was not useful at all.

How do you figure? A master of all trades is by definition the best at all of those things. Blu is not the best at all of those things, hell it's not even the best at any one of those things, and only really shines in some of them in specific situations. What you're describing is a "Jack of All Trades." It CAN do those things, if needed, and usually not all at the same time. It is not the BEST at them.

If the party needs a tank, I come RUN, not BLU. If the party needs a dedicated healer, I come WHM, not BLU. If the party needs a dedicated buffer/debuffer, I come GEO or COR, not BLU. If the party has few members and the content is fairly low level/difficulty, I come BLU and tear ***up.

I used your own statements.

It can be the best DPS. If it were not a master of DPS, it could never be the best DPS. But it is competitive with several jobs whose real only function is DPS.

It can heal. And doing so doesn't bar it from other functions. MP being a concern is laughable given Vorseals, Tizona, self-Refresh, Magic Hammer, whatever. Other DPS have MP pools that they can't even use.

It can cleave. A job can either cleave or it can't. If it can't produce enough damage in an AOE, it can't cleave. So, this is an absolute.

It can tank. Many jobs simply can't, but it can do just fine in a pinch. It has tools to hold hate, tools to stun-lock, tools to mitigate damage and it can heal itself.

It can do things specialists cannot. This just blows my mind, but it can.

It may not be the absolute best at each of these things. But it is top tier at all of them.
Try it. Have some fun and accept the challenge. Do what you do and try replacing every job with BLU. If unsure, swap one role at a time. Apart from one, or at most two functions per battle at the highest tier of difficulty, BLU can sufficiently replace any role.

It has both Aeolian Edge (with potent gear access) and Phalanx, so it can to an extent.

RDM is actually a sh*t of all trades. It is so bland it's simply not desirable outside some niche situations.

To some people a hybrid job's ideal place is "mostly mediocre".

Talking about BLU's power when SMN exists, lol.

That's grasping, since PLD uses that to cleave, but needs Ochain/Arke to really get the juice flowing.
RDM wouldn't build TP as quickly as a PLD or WAR to make it viable unless it was really getting beat on by a lot of mobs, and I don't think Phalanx would be enough.

You won't find a RDM with a dagger in its hand running up and down the streets of Reisenjima pretending it is a BLM.

But, even assuming RDM could find a way to make it work... We can agree RDM and BLU would not have nearly as easy or successful time of it. One is far and away the superior.

I think what [Caiir] was trying to point out here that once BLUs gets MP stolen from them without Tizona's AM it will suffer tremendously.
Maybe in your case you got lucky or didn't get hate?

I'm not arguing against this. The very first sentence of my post is "This is by design." Your issue seems to be with versatility itself. A Jack of All Trades is supposed to be able to do everything. That's the point. Its drawback is that it's not the best at them, but can do in a pinch.

I know very well that a BLU can heal or tank, I don't need to "try it." I'm not arguing against that. The point is that if I need a healer or a tank, I bring a healer or tank job, not a blu, unless I do not have access to a healer or tank job. BLU can heal, but WHM is better. BLU can tank, but PLD or RUN are better. BLU can debuff and buff to a very limited extent, but BRD COR GEO are better.

You know why it's ok that BLU can do things specialists cannot? Because specialists can do things that BLU cannot, that's why they're specialists. Their mechanics are focused on depth of roles, while blu's mechanics are focused on breadth of roles.

Also, LMAO @ this:


What the hell are you even talking about. It's a competent DPS, and given the right situation, it can come out on top due to that particular situation's circumstances. Even monk can be ok if all you fight is bones. A Jack of All Trades that is not competent at any of those things is useless. The point is that it's not the best, you bring it for its flexibility.

If it weren't SMN, the BLU defenders would point at something else (anything else) than the issues BLU represents. I get it. But someone needs to speak Truth to Obfuscation.

MNK isn't even the best DPS on bones.

For damage BLU isn't that great, for capping out party haste without needing a BRD it's amazing. This months Ambuscade was done best with 2 BLU's, WHM RDM and then a combination of SAM/WAR/DRK/DRG.

If they fixed it to be competent in the modern era of the game, it would be.


Is that supposed to be an argument? I'm directly addressing your points about BLU. It's a job based around flexibility and being able to do multiple things at a basic competence level, but not being the best at them. That is the whole point of the job, and that is the thing you can't stand. The issue is with you, not the job.

You're almost guaranteed to have a RDM in this ambuscade, and any RDM worth their salt will have 11-15 mp/tic refresh on the BLUs at all times. BLUs should not need more mp than that to use all their desired spells even with MP Steal.

• The shear amount of nuances in your statements are a clear sign of pure resentment to BLU!

• I believe by now the community got fed up with bashing BLU ever since SE decided to shaft it completely with every gear update since Omen!

• Thats how it worked and thats how other jobs got their balance (through gear updates)!

• If you want to stay in the shadows of [PUG] thats your business but most of us here actually party with people they know and get full benefits from support jobs.

• In my opinion you need to chill about BLU and focus more on making friends that will haste you on anything other than BLU... I even make my BLU friend Haste me when I'm on DRG and our RDM is away...
  

Play whatever you like but most importantly invest more time on building a static group mate~

Its 2017 and people still go completely insane about DPS even though BLU does fall behind all 2H jobs by a good margin and [struggles to lead] Great DNCs and THFs ....

Versatility isn't bad as long as there are real costs to the benefits. BLU experiences no real costs. Just benefits that put it on par or above specialists. For the vast majority of content in the game, only one out of the twenty-two jobs is top tier for all of it.

So, if tweaking BLU to the offensive end of the spectrum reduced its defensive capabilities, that would make sense.

If ramping up its magic damage bottomed out its melee damage, that also would make sense.

Let's go back to the cleaving example. Sure, BLM can AOE targets other than itself. But when it casts on multiple targets, the damage is reduced based upon the number of additional targets. BLU doesn't suffer that. And it can also inflict extremely helpful status ailments in AOE while doing that damage.

I agree it is by design. But, in my opinion, it is poor design, looking at it globally. In a game that favors low-man set-ups and time to clear, between BLUs ability to adjust its traits, utilize HP and MP to great effect and swap gear to maximize any of its actions, it is far more than just a jack of all trades, master of none. It is too good of a solution to too many problems all at once, assuming SE's desire of balance is genuine across all jobs.

I don't want BLU wiped from the face of the earth. It has great lore, and I'm glad there are fans of the job. But it sticks out, blatantly so.

I think this was one of SE's better decisions. BLU was almost OP for awhile there, and SE did a reasonable thing by tweaking gear then again by buffing BRD.

The real non-BLU buff was when SE turbo charged BRD. See BLU was so powerful because it could self cap haste and thus freeing a spot for another DD while BRD was needed for anyone else. BRD's buffing capacity had been greatly diminished since their songs were stuck at pre-iLevel power. SE turbo charging them enables BRD to not only cap haste, but also provide immense powerful buffs to everyone else. This puts everyone on the same footing as BLU in a party situation, which is what people wanted in the first place.

I'm not sure SE will ever properly fix MNK, unfortunately. I'd like to see it properly addressed.

Nah, that statement was directed at Draylo. He usually pops in to say something along those lines from time to time.

Where we disagree is you believe BLU does all these things at a basic competence level. We disagree on what a basic competence level is.

BST did not get fixed through a gear update. Nor did THF. And if SMN is ever adjusted, it won't be through gear. Enmity issues for tanks was not adjusted through gear, either. I could go on and on.
I think BLU is being adjusted through gear because traits and gifts must be a cluster of spaghetti code and SE is terrified to mess with it. But it will never be enough because, at its foundation, BLU is on its own level.

You don't know me as well as you think you do.

A blu without tizona doing this month's ambuscade would spam 1 CDC (if using alma main) then savage blade all the things if spamming or doing a SC order, a blu without MP does the only thing a DRG does which is damage.

And you dont need tizona's aftermath for the dmg convert to mp effect to take place, stop looking ignorant.

• Still salty about that DRG forum honey- when I literarily decimated your argument?

• Did you play V1 this month? clearly not because people tend to use BLUs to sleep adds if no RDM was around and guess how they sleep adds babe? Yes with dream flower oh and how they cap haste? right again with flutter XD

• Guess what rats do this V1? They steal everything including MP [Shocking I know]

People obviously need to learn how to properly construct an argument!
P.S try to direct your comment next time to the original person who constructed the argument-I only cleared up his stance :)

Yep MP Theft, two or more of those and your out of MP. Tizona is a god send for this months Ambu, otherwise your relying on Refresh III. Which brings me to a personal peeve, so many ***RDM's this month.

Bull. It does experience costs, you just don't think they're enough. I honestly question whether you have played the job to any serious extent on any content that is remotely challenging. Do you know how I am able to be competitive (mind you, still not beating them or even close if they're good) against equally geared and skilled DPS specialists in high buff situations? By focusing entirely on DPS. Thanks to JPs and gifts, I have a few extra points for utility stuff, but it's not that much, and if I have to actually use those things during a fight, I drop down the parse pretty quickly because of casting times, even with fast cast. 2H WS spam is no joke. I am still pulling my weight as a dps, but I am not doing as much as the specialists, and I am bringing other things to the table to make up for it.

Furthermore, without tizona or a rdm, MP can actually be an issue in longer fights or in fights where MP is wiped/stolen. Cocoon is cheap, but Occultation is quite expensive, as is White Wind. Barrier Tusk, Magic Fruit, and Magic Barrier are middle-ground, but have the same problem of having to stop to cast. And if you want to have all of these things available to you, you are not going to have enough space to max out DD traits. Everything you do on BLU has a benefit and a cost. The benefits are usually not massive, and neither are the costs. It takes skill ans knowledge to balance these things out and to bring the right tools for the job for the content you are doing.

BLU is a jack of all trades that is actually WELL-DESIGNED, which is hard to do. I'm sorry that RDM got the shaft, but that's not BLU's fault.