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Dev Tracker - news, discussions
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By tristenn 2016-10-29 02:46:30
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Any way yea just tested and the above confirmed so my point still stands your probably not seeing the full damage of Reso vs Cross Reaper.

And now I remember why I don't do internet stuff guess I'm too old to understand why people can't just make a point without being an *** thanks for reminding me good day.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2016-10-29 03:15:38
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Afania said: »
That's how multi hit ws DD used to lose parse in Einharjer because dealing full ws dmg on final blow is serious business.
Stupid SAMs would always do this in Colibri parties to win the parse, since Gekko was 1hit
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2016-10-29 03:27:05
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Ew great katana sam on birds!
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2016-10-29 03:29:30
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Before Penta SAM was a thing*
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By Afania 2016-10-29 03:32:20
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I'm no SAM but I thought its soboro(tp)+ yoichi(ws) combo or bust? Or maybe I'm wrong.....
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By Ragnarok.Fabiano 2016-10-29 04:21:52
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on colibries you needes a very good ranged set then you where able to /rng and sidewinder the ***out of them .

or /drg and yoichi was fun also since the da/ta proced on jumps and gave you acces to the wyvern earring
 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2016-10-29 04:37:39
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Ew great katana sam on birds!
Don't mind me; just being your Onimaru SAM in your bird party.
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 Ragnarok.Zeig
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2016-10-29 05:56:57
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Its almost 2017 and we still have to explain that multi hit WS's stop dealing damage when the mob dies.

example:
mob has 10k hp, using a 5 HIT ws that deals 3k hp per swing.
swing 1: 3k/10k
swing 2: 6k/10k
swing 3: 9k/10k
swing 4: 12k/10k mob dies, WS deals 12k damage
swing 5: never registers
It should be very easy to tell from the discrepancy in the TP return (in addition to the lower-than-expected damage) over the hours one put in this game (while leveling or farming stuff solo).
 Valefor.Kiaru
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By Valefor.Kiaru 2016-10-29 12:53:13
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tristenn said: »
I don't think Resolution overkills. What I mean by that is it will only show damage for the HP the mob has left that may be why your seeing the same damage. If you want to test with capped pdif the WKR's are a better place for that.
Edit: Miss read you were saying you think were NOT pdif capped. What I said above is still true I think there isn't enough HP left on those weaker mobs for you to see the reso damage. Even when I don't have capped pdif Reso always pulls ahead of Cross reaper for me.
No I know how that works. I would WS at 100% hp and the mobs would still have 5-10% HP left, they weren't dying to the WS.

I didn't test 2000%+ TP for reso vs cross reaper though!

I also have 250 TP bonus moonshade so my WS were always getting +250 TP bonus for both WS.

Resolution seems to just pull ahead when you're pdif capped(I was hitting super weak mobs for 12k with resolutions when my cross reapers do like 8k) meaning in situations that should exist(ie: idris geo not being completely overpowered beyond comprehension) resolution is "balanced", but since idris geo exists we can easily cap our pdifs on even the hardest enemies in the game, and then we cap our fstr(or almost do? at least more than an lolint ws would) since resolution is a str mod WS as well, meaning resolution is stupid strong in fully buffed/debuffed enemy situations compared to nearly any other WS in the game.

It's not that resolution is overpowered, it's more of a factor of other things being overpowered(idris geo) and int/VIT mob ws being stupid for 2h melee weapons.

Even if we nerfed idris geo to not be stupid as hell, we'd still have he problem of stuff like entropy being weak, so we should just buff every 2h WS to be str modified then try to balance from there.
 Odin.Geriond
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By Odin.Geriond 2016-10-29 14:50:01
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With my WS sets, even when PDIF isn't capped, 1000 TP Resolution beats 1000 TP Insurgency and Cross Reaper with AM3 Liberator, and roughly matches 1000 TP Cross Reaper with Anguta (and beats it as well when Gavialis Helm is active). When PDIF is capped or TP > 1000, it only pulls further ahead.
 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2016-10-29 15:35:50
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We really need to stop using the 1k TP mark in WS discussions when Aeonics are involved. If you aren't waiting until 1250tp+ with most Aeonics, you are pretty much wasting the potential of said weapon.
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 Sylph.Dravidian
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By Sylph.Dravidian 2016-10-29 16:18:13
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Bismarck.Gippali said: »
We really need to stop using the 1k TP mark in WS discussions when Aeonics are involved. If you aren't waiting until 1250tp+ with most Aeonics, you are pretty much wasting the potential of said weapon.

No.
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 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2016-10-29 16:50:22
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Yes.
 
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By Calinari 2016-10-30 23:37:16
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So, with all the blu arguing and mnk excitement, no one has mentioned there's no talk about the third AA trust.
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By Afania 2016-10-31 01:42:32
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Asura.Cromag said: »
Don't worry Afania your precious BLU is still relevant XD
You can sleep now


No :C
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-10-31 10:06:56
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Bismarck.Gippali said: »
Yes.
No. Aeonics favor spending TP as quickly as possible.
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 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2016-10-31 10:58:48
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Not true depending on the WS. And if the Scaling is worth waiting one more attack round.
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By Bismarck.Lothoro 2016-10-31 11:15:47
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Bismarck.Gippali said: »
Not true depending on the WS. And if the Scaling is worth waiting one more attack round.

Then could you explain the certain Weapon Skills / Scaling where waiting until 1250+ tp is more relevant?
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-10-31 11:22:56
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Bismarck.Gippali said: »
Not true depending on the WS. And if the Scaling is worth waiting one more attack round.

Where's the justification for this? It's not reflected by spreadsheets or DPS models. Any amount of TP Bonus favors WSing earlier, Aeonics or not.
 Sylph.Braden
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By Sylph.Braden 2016-10-31 11:57:27
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There's like 5 WS where the 2k anchor is more than double the 1k anchor AND the WS isn't benefitting from super Fotia goodness (Savage, Expiacion, Rudra's, Ten, Mistral Axe). That's not counting Fencer either.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-10-31 12:03:44
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Sylph.Braden said: »
There's like 5 WS where the 2k anchor is more than double the 1k anchor AND the WS isn't benefitting from super Fotia goodness (Savage, Expiacion, Rudra's, Ten, Mistral Axe). That's not counting Fencer either.

With 750 TP Bonus (Moonshade + Aeonic) and over TP you're already going to be pretty close to 2000 fTP most of the time. Also the statement, "any amount of TP Bonus favors WSing earlier, Aeonics or not" is a factual assertion, not an opinion. I would still like to see some justification for his statements. I know that for Rudra's, if you don't have aeonic then saving more than 1000 is ideal, but if you do have aeonic then spamming right at 1000 is ideal. At least according to the spreadsheet anyways.
 Sylph.Braden
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By Sylph.Braden 2016-10-31 12:18:58
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I just figure he heard about people suggesting doing so on THF or NIN forums or something, I dunno.

The last few days I've been jonesing for my own personal SMN+WAR combo to follow me around for super TP Bonus though.
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2016-10-31 12:45:50
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
At least according to the spreadsheet anyways.

I am curious about which spreadsheet you are talking about? Can you link it or tell me where to find the one you are using? I cannot comment meaningfully without more information.
 Bismarck.Phaded
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By Bismarck.Phaded 2016-10-31 13:07:50
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Resolution on RUN is a perfect example of a WS you do NOT want to fire off at 1000% TP. Once you break 2500% WS numbers go up really high. Assuming Lionheart + Moonshade you would actually want to fire closer to the 1750 mark, earlier if you have WAR for Warcry or SMN etc.

With the insane amount of multistrikes available to RUN + Emboldened Temper there is no reason why TP overflow shouldn't hit that high.
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By FaeQueenCory 2016-10-31 13:13:03
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Calinari said: »
So, with all the blu arguing and mnk excitement, no one has mentioned there's no talk about the third AA trust.
A small "spoiler(?)" for that:
When you go back and talk to whatshisface after getting EV, he mentions that "the next target" of his research (e.g. the next Trust) won't be a "light" or a "dark" Trust, but one that "combines both the light and the dark"....

Also: SE removed the HM TT and MR ciphers last update. So looks like we'll have some fancy thing (what is "light" AND "dark"? Lilith? Sel'theus? Volto Obscuro or w/e the name was?) before we get the other three AAs. No idea what it'll be though.
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By Sylph.Oraen 2016-10-31 13:19:10
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Bismarck.Phaded said: »
Resolution on RUN is a perfect example of a WS you do NOT want to fire off at 1000% TP. Once you break 2500% WS numbers go up really high. Assuming Lionheart + Moonshade you would actually want to fire closer to the 1750 mark, earlier if you have WAR for Warcry or SMN etc.

With the insane amount of multistrikes available to RUN + Emboldened Temper there is no reason why TP overflow shouldn't hit that high.

Could you share where you're getting that information? Looking through the RUN spreadsheet, WSing anywhere after 1k TP with Lionheart leads to a DPS loss. Your mentioned value of 1750 leads to an overall drop of ~6% DPS.

Outside of perhaps closing a multi-step light and you're after the absolute highest WS damage you can muster, I can't find a situation where RUN should not WS at 1k with Lionheart.
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2016-10-31 13:19:18
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Quote:
A small "spoiler(?)" for that:
When you go back and talk to whatshisface after getting EV, he mentions that "the next target" of his research (e.g. the next Trust) won't be a "light" or a "dark" Trust, but one that "combines both the light and the dark"....

Also: SE removed the HM TT and MR ciphers last update. So looks like we'll have some fancy thing (what is "light" AND "dark"? Lilith? Sel'theus? Volto Obscuro or w/e the name was?) before we get the other three AAs. No idea what it'll be though.

While I'm guessing we'll get something like that down the line, they could just as easily have the next quest be "Actually jk I need more research, go fight HM".
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 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-10-31 13:19:36
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Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
At least according to the spreadsheet anyways.

I am curious about which spreadsheet you are talking about? Can you link it or tell me where to find the one you are using? I cannot comment meaningfully without more information.

Not sure where the one I was using for THF went, but here's one for ninja.

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AizBLB9rL0FFgU7-CdGlgycF6v_9

Bismarck.Phaded said: »
Resolution on RUN is a perfect example of a WS you do NOT want to fire off at 1000% TP. Once you break 2500% WS numbers go up really high. Assuming Lionheart + Moonshade you would actually want to fire closer to the 1750 mark, earlier if you have WAR for Warcry or SMN etc.

With the insane amount of multistrikes available to RUN + Emboldened Temper there is no reason why TP overflow shouldn't hit that high.

What's so special about Resolution? Other weaponskills (Blade: Ten, Rudra's Storm, etc.) have scaling that is more severe than Resolution yet they don't show this behavior. I have a RUN spreadsheet at home I can share later. All forms of TP Bonus favor earlier WS usage for any weaponskill.
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By Siren.Kyte 2016-10-31 13:28:07
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Even if you WS as soon as possible, you're still going to have overflow a sizable portion of the time due to multiattack procs on the last round to 1k. If you're using an Aeonic and purposefully waiting another round or two, you're going to be well into the zone of greatly diminished returns for a large percentage of your WSs.
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