Rapparee Harness Or SH+1

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Rapparee Harness or SH+1
 Carbuncle.Taintedone
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By Carbuncle.Taintedone 2009-08-20 15:12:31
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Laphine said:
At lv57 is not really worth equiping for haste. W/E haste you get increasing acc or att will do better. You will not always get the haste spell and/or march so it decreases the potency of haste on equipment even more.

Keep the SH man. And if you got the money for a +1 its well worth it for a meat build. Only a handful of other bodies can replace it: homam, mirke, enkidu at 75 and there is antares at 71 with a not so good cost benefit.

Astronym also talked about pizza. Yeah, thats the food to eat if you are not fighting colibris. Heck, considering you might do TA with all your WSs i would try eating pizza on them as well.

When exping increasing acc and att is usually better than haste. The reason for that is because we usually fight mobs high above our own levels(Imp at 65 = /panic). Increasing these stats are better then. Even if you are burning lesser colibri at 60, equiping for haste wont do as well as equiping the SH because with SH you could be eating meat.

Here is a sample. I've been leveling nin and with blade madrigal + marinara pizza + acc goodies (SH, PCA, Life Belt and other stuff) i got 85% acc on a recent parse at puks in wajoam synced to 60.


Also have to keep in mind, if you're missing a lot on a mob, it's going to adversely affect most of your WS's, which are multi-hit like DE, Evis, etc. You'll have to plan you're gear choices accordingly to that also.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-08-20 15:21:06
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Everyone who said ***'s situational based on accuracy are correct, the other people are making generalized statements for a single TP body rather than using each when appropriate.
 Ragnarok.Dougr
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By Ragnarok.Dougr 2009-08-20 15:26:19
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Tbest said:
Antares is only 4mil on Fairy. >.> I dunno what it is on Carby.


Really guy? I guess you must have thought you were being cool by acting like 4 million is barely anything.
 Kujata.Malicfayt
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By Kujata.Malicfayt 2009-08-20 15:29:42
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Skip Antares Its an overpriced SH+2. Only job i could justify it on is dancer.

Edit: I forgot about Enkidus. my bad, screw Antares altogether
 Remora.Laphine
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By Remora.Laphine 2009-08-20 15:31:06
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Nightfyre said:
Everyone who said ***'s situational based on accuracy are correct, the other people are making generalized statements for a single TP body rather than using each when appropriate.


Nightfyre check Vegetto's post. He showed mathmatically that haste is not worth on exp lvls, as i said on my post. That of course, for a thf. Cause hasso+haste spell+haste equip helps a whole deal for other dds. Although i think (never calculated) /war will do better than /sam until 70ish (when the lvl gap starts to close and you also get the seigan defense)
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-08-20 15:39:01
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Go back and read it yourself.

Vegetto said:
f you are sure your acc is capped, go w/ raparee.
 Remora.Laphine
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By Remora.Laphine 2009-08-20 15:41:31
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Yeah, but you will never be capped at exp.... as my parse with full buff show...
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-08-20 15:43:54
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Was your parse at the low or high end of a camp? Gear, buffs, debuffs? What mobs were you fighting? Previous dagger merits? There's way too many factors for a single parse to realistically create a blanket rule. If capped ACC was impossible, nobody would be saying use Raparee.

EDIT: Food?
 Carbuncle.Taintedone
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By Carbuncle.Taintedone 2009-08-20 15:46:38
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Malicfayt said:
Skip Antares Its an overpriced SH+2. Only job i could justify it on is dancer.

Edit: I forgot about Enkidus. my bad, screw Antares altogether


Lol.

Btw, I parsed myself earlier. The results came back and said I was awesome. ^^
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 Remora.Laphine
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By Remora.Laphine 2009-08-20 16:04:32
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Yeah, but swapping from sushi to meat is the first thing one has to worry about at exp/merit. That gives a real big boost on exp lvls. Haste doesnt because he still miss some key pieces then, and even a brd wont be able to sing a 20% haste. Also, im very sure that even with merits on dagger he wont hit acc cap without some kind of acc boosting food.

Edit: Another parse. High end colibri (lv59) i parsed 90% acc on them. If i had at least 6 merits on katana i would have capped it. Still, i was eating crab sushi. I had a cor buffing too (no rng), so we were getting random acc boosts and im not sure about the mean boost we get.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-08-20 16:19:01
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You're talking sushi and meat, what about pizza? Best of both worlds. If that capped your accuracy with room for a Haste build, that's clearly the way to go. You say birds I'll say either use the Accuracy build and meat for that specific situation or spam Crab Sushi and keep on with swinging 10% faster, for that specific situation. Which you do depends on which gets you the higher DPS. ***is always situational.

10% increase to DPS before you even consider BRD songs is a huge increase to DPS. It's even more powerful with even Advancing March alone given increasing returns on Haste. You in turn don't seem to be considering the possibility of RDM or WHM Haste.

I'm done arguing. Either do the math to prove me wrong or give it up.
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2009-08-20 17:05:28
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The only problem I see with using pizza is that it won't affect your ranged acc and hitting those acid bolts (assuming you're not fighting colis) gives your entire party a pretty decent atk boost, possibly a bigger percentage than even eating pizza would have.

Then again if your rng acc set is pimp enough to hit without sushi than I guess go pizza, I never had enough inv to drag all that stuff around though, hehe.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-08-20 17:13:29
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Tarowyn said:
The only problem I see with using pizza is that it won't affect your ranged acc and hitting those acid bolts (assuming you're not fighting colis) gives your entire party a pretty decent atk boost, possibly a bigger percentage than even eating pizza would have.

Then again if your rng acc set is pimp enough to hit without sushi than I guess go pizza, I never had enough inv to drag all that stuff around though, hehe.

That's definitely a possibility you'd have to account for. One situation I can think of where that isn't such a factor is Colibri, where I'm told Acid Bolts are often resisted. This would probably be a Sushi+Haste occasion in my opinion, I doubt you can get enough ACC in gear to pull off a meat build. If you could, well... that's what math is for.
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2009-08-20 17:22:07
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Yeah, that's why I specifically put (assuming you're not fighting colis), lol.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-08-20 17:23:52
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Totally missed that XD It's Thursday, leave me alone.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-08-20 17:25:37
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Haseyo said:
Personally I'd prefer the Haste, since when I used Thf I generally always had Sushi.

QFT. Ive always had capped or damn near acc from before I was using it so it was easy choice... only used SH+1 for danceing edge for a few lvls... but with dag merits wasnt too long before my ws gear had enough acc in it anyways
 Siren.Delirium
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By Siren.Delirium 2009-08-21 16:12:04
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i worked it out math wise.

100 attack rounds with dual wield yields 220 individual swings (factoring 5% triple attack) also

with 10% haste you'll be at 110 attack rounds in the same time and 242 swings

220 swings @ 85% accuracy would be 187 hits

242 swings @ 79% accuracy (assuming 12 accuracy is 6% hit rate) is 191 hits

so at your level it wouldnt really help at all to go with an haste build because in the same amount of time you're only getting 4 extra hits.
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-08-21 16:16:43
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Delirium said:
i worked it out math wise.

100 attack rounds with dual wield yields 220 individual swings (factoring 5% triple attack) also

with 10% haste you'll be at 110 attack rounds in the same time and 242 swings

220 swings @ 85% accuracy would be 187 hits

242 swings @ 79% accuracy (assuming 12 accuracy is 6% hit rate) is 191 hits

so at your level it wouldnt really help at all to go with an haste build because in the same amount of time you're only getting 4 extra hits.

Wrong math is wrong, unless you're assuming that there is absolutely no haste from your support jobs.

Also, going by your logic, 50% haste would be 150 attack rounds instead of 100, which is totally wrong. That's not the way you calculate haste.

Edit: Even under the assumption you have 0 form of other haste, the math is still wrong you get more than 110 attack rounds out of 10% haste.
 Siren.Delirium
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By Siren.Delirium 2009-08-21 16:54:33
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Vegetto said:
Delirium said:
i worked it out math wise.

100 attack rounds with dual wield yields 220 individual swings (factoring 5% triple attack) also

with 10% haste you'll be at 110 attack rounds in the same time and 242 swings

220 swings @ 85% accuracy would be 187 hits

242 swings @ 79% accuracy (assuming 12 accuracy is 6% hit rate) is 191 hits

so at your level it wouldnt really help at all to go with an haste build because in the same amount of time you're only getting 4 extra hits.

Wrong math is wrong, unless you're assuming that there is absolutely no haste from your support jobs.

Also, going by your logic, 50% haste would be 150 attack rounds instead of 100, which is totally wrong. That's not the way you calculate haste.

Edit: Even under the assumption you have 0 form of other haste, the math is still wrong you get more than 110 attack rounds out of 10% haste.


60thf/30nin with no haste using the same daggers as a 60thf/30nin with 10% haste equates to the exact math shown. unless 10% haste somehow magically produces more then a 10% increase in how fast you attack.

and this was based off the 100 attack rounds with no haste. in the same ammount of time the 10% haste would have had 110 attack rounds.
 Remora.Laphine
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By Remora.Laphine 2009-08-21 16:56:11
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Ah but lets work something out then:

At 60 using
darksteel kukri +1 delay194
chicken knife delay176
So combined delay is 314

So considering the following degrees of haste:

1: 25 (10 + 15 spell)
delay is 235.5 or 3.925 secs
2: 21 (sh + 6 + 15 spell i said before)
delay is 248.06 or 4.134 secs
3: 15 (haste spell only, sh and life belt)
delay is 266.9 or 4.448

So if 3 does 100 rounds, 2 will do 107 and 1 will do 113 rounds.
Which means:
1: 248 attacks
2: 235 attacks
3: 220 attacks

applying acc
1: 248 x 79% = 195
2: 235 x 85% = 199
3: 220 x 88.5%= 194

There we have it. So with haste using sh, swift belt and bravos wins as i expected. I could analyze without haste spell, but got event soonish hehe^^.
 Siren.Delirium
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By Siren.Delirium 2009-08-21 16:57:24
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dont forget delay reduction from dual wield
 Remora.Laphine
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By Remora.Laphine 2009-08-21 16:57:43
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Delirium said:
Vegetto said:
Delirium said:
i worked it out math wise.

100 attack rounds with dual wield yields 220 individual swings (factoring 5% triple attack) also

with 10% haste you'll be at 110 attack rounds in the same time and 242 swings

220 swings @ 85% accuracy would be 187 hits

242 swings @ 79% accuracy (assuming 12 accuracy is 6% hit rate) is 191 hits

so at your level it wouldnt really help at all to go with an haste build because in the same amount of time you're only getting 4 extra hits.

Wrong math is wrong, unless you're assuming that there is absolutely no haste from your support jobs.

Also, going by your logic, 50% haste would be 150 attack rounds instead of 100, which is totally wrong. That's not the way you calculate haste.

Edit: Even under the assumption you have 0 form of other haste, the math is still wrong you get more than 110 attack rounds out of 10% haste.


60thf/30nin with no haste using the same daggers as a 60thf/30nin with 10% haste equates to the exact math shown. unless 10% haste somehow magically produces more then a 10% increase in how fast you attack.

and this was based off the 100 attack rounds with no haste. in the same ammount of time the 10% haste would have had 110 attack rounds.


1/0.9 = 1.111, so its actually a 11% faster hit rate without any other kind of haste
 Fairy.Tbest
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By Fairy.Tbest 2009-08-21 17:01:47
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Laphine said:
1/0.9 = 1.111, so its actually a 11% faster hit rate without any other kind of haste
^ This. This is the same way that a 50% Haste is 2x faster or 67% Haste is 3x faster...
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-08-21 17:09:10
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Delirium said:
Vegetto said:
Delirium said:
i worked it out math wise.

100 attack rounds with dual wield yields 220 individual swings (factoring 5% triple attack) also

with 10% haste you'll be at 110 attack rounds in the same time and 242 swings

220 swings @ 85% accuracy would be 187 hits

242 swings @ 79% accuracy (assuming 12 accuracy is 6% hit rate) is 191 hits

so at your level it wouldnt really help at all to go with an haste build because in the same amount of time you're only getting 4 extra hits.

Wrong math is wrong, unless you're assuming that there is absolutely no haste from your support jobs.

Also, going by your logic, 50% haste would be 150 attack rounds instead of 100, which is totally wrong. That's not the way you calculate haste.

Edit: Even under the assumption you have 0 form of other haste, the math is still wrong you get more than 110 attack rounds out of 10% haste.


60thf/30nin with no haste using the same daggers as a 60thf/30nin with 10% haste equates to the exact math shown. unless 10% haste somehow magically produces more then a 10% increase in how fast you attack.

and this was based off the 100 attack rounds with no haste. in the same ammount of time the 10% haste would have had 110 attack rounds.

As already shown, still wrong. Its not attacking 10% faster, its taking 10% off your delay. Its a delay reduction.

For example, going by your logic, 50% haste is 150 attack rounds instead of 100.

Lets say you have 100 base delay. You have 50% haste. Its a delay reduction, your delay drops to 50. 50 is half of the delay of 100, which means you attack twice as fast aka a 100% increase, not a 50% increase. So it would be 200 attack rounds instead of 100 @ the value of 50% haste.

Edit:

Quote:
dont forget delay reduction from dual wield


DW is totally independent from haste, they have no effect on one another.

For example, lets say you have 100 delay, 10% DW and 10% haste. They don't stack like saying 10% haste and 10% haste is 20% delay, they are calculated independently.

So it works like this

100 x 10% DW = 90 delay

Your delay is now 90, we apply the haste to 90 delay, not 100.

90 x 10% haste = 81 delay.

% increase from in change in delay is 1/(new delay/old delay)

1/(90/100) = 1.11% increase

1/(81/90) = 1.11% increase.

Whether you have DW, haste, or both, you still get the 1.11% increase. They have to do with one another.
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 Siren.Delirium
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By Siren.Delirium 2009-08-21 17:11:25
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ah right i'm at work so i'm not focusing on this atm lol but yeah i get where my math went wrong, but why didnt you just fix it instead of being a tard dude.
 Kujata.Argettio
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By Kujata.Argettio 2009-08-21 17:12:24
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Hense why haste give more, the more you have.

And why double march is the greatest thing a bard can do to you.

Delirium said:
ah right i'm at work so i'm not focusing on this atm lol but yeah i get where my math went wrong, but why didnt you just fix it instead of being a tard dude.


Because he had already given the answer to the question eariler in the thread and you tried to prove him worng with bad maths.
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 Fairy.Tbest
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By Fairy.Tbest 2009-08-21 17:14:26
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Delirium said:
ah right i'm at work so i'm not focusing on this atm lol but yeah i get where my math went wrong, but why didnt you just fix it instead of being a tard dude.
Because just simply fixing your fail doesn't help you in the long run. :P
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 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-08-21 17:15:41
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Delirium said:
ah right i'm at work so i'm not focusing on this atm lol but yeah i get where my math went wrong, but why didnt you just fix it instead of being a tard dude.

I've already done the math earlier in the thread. Whether you skipped it or plain chose not to read it, the information is still there.
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 Siren.Delirium
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By Siren.Delirium 2009-08-21 17:24:38
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my dual wield comment was directed to this post because it directly effect the delay and his calculations.

Laphine said:
Ah but lets work something out then:

At 60 using
darksteel kukri +1 delay194
chicken knife delay176
So combined delay is 314

So considering the following degrees of haste:

1: 25 (10 + 15 spell)
delay is 235.5 or 3.925 secs
2: 21 (sh + 6 + 15 spell i said before)
delay is 248.06 or 4.134 secs
3: 15 (haste spell only)
delay is 266.9 or 4.448

So if 3 does 100 rounds, 2 will do 107 and 1 will do 113 rounds.
Which means:
1: 248 attacks
2: 235 attacks
3: 220 attacks

applying acc
1: 248 x 79% = 195
2: 235 x 85% = 199
3: 220 x 88.5%= 194

There we have it. So with haste using sh, swift belt and bravos wins as i expected. I could analyze without haste spell, but got event soonish hehe^^.
 Remora.Laphine
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By Remora.Laphine 2009-08-21 17:30:50
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it is there lol

194+176 = 370

370 x 0.85 = 314
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