Vaccine / Health Care Scam Exposed.

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Vaccine / Health care scam exposed.
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-02-23 11:54:48
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How do other countries handle vaccines? USA media is so full of hype about vaccines being good or bad. It could be insightful to hear the findings of a second opinion that is untainted by a hyped up fear mongering sensationalized media that is owned by the same people that own the pharmacies. (If such a thing even exist)
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-02-23 11:55:14
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Bloodrose said: »
Verda said: »
If the progress of science has taught us anything, it's be skeptic and questioning of everything all the time. The moment you lock in and fly by assumption, pride or ego is the moment you always regret.
It's not that science has taught us to question everything - that's philosophy.

Science teaches us to ask the right questions at the right times. While the latter part I would agree with, I should also point out that most physicians generally encourage people to talk to their doctors, mostly about medical history, and to see if certain vaccines are safe for them, or if other options are viable.

Hence my previous post, although wording it differently might give a new perspective: A little bit of research goes a long way. Just not always the right way. Knowing what questions to ask, and knowing where to find the answers are two things that should never be given up for personal views.
Verda said: »
Science very much depends on the integrity of the scientific community to not be a bunch of dbags with agendas.
Not really.
There have been *** with agendas and personal beefs quite often. Lord Kelvin comes to mind most immediately, but you can find similar spats fairly readily.

The part science truly depends on is being able to provide the methodology and being able to independently verify the results/conclusions.

What it very much depends on is the ability to cross-check each others observation and experiments. When that is reduced by de-emphasizing the importance of checking or investigating existing studies or experiments, then it allows the snake-oil salesmen to proliferate.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-02-23 11:55:29
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This is one of my favorite articles I came across.

Quote:
Scientists who believed they had started to decipher links between a GlaxoSmithKline H1N1 pandemic flu vaccine and the sleep disorder narcolepsy have retracted a study after saying they cannot replicate their findings.

The paper, originally published in the journal Science Translational Medicine in December 2013, suggested narcolepsy can sometimes be triggered by a scientific phenomenon known as "molecular mimicry," offering a possible explanation for its link to GSK's "swine flu" vaccine, Pandemrix.

The results appeared to show that the debilitating disorder, characterized by sudden sleepiness and muscle weakness, could be set off by an immune response to a portion of a protein from the H1N1 flu virus that is very similar to a region of a protein called hypocretin, which is key to narcolepsy.

But in a statement issued last week, the journal said the researchers, led by Emmanuel Mignot, a professor of psychiatry and behavioural sciences at Stanford University, had asked that the paper be retracted "because they were unable to replicate some of the results reported in the paper".

GSK, which has been funding Mignot's research into links between the vaccine and narcolepsy, said in a statement it believed "the original scientific hypothesis remains a valid one that needs to be further explored".

"We will continue to support Professor Mignot and his colleagues with their continued research in this area and hope these ongoing efforts will enable us to provide more answers," the British drugmaker said.


Previous studies in countries where GSK's Pandemrix vaccine was used in the 2009/2010 flu pandemic - including in Britain, Finland, Sweden and Ireland - found its use was linked to a significant rise in cases of narcolepsy in children.

Narcolepsy is thought to be brought about by loss of function in "wakefulness" cells called hypocretin cells in one of the brain's sleep centers.
Scientists retract narcolepsy study linked to GSK vaccine
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-02-23 11:56:57
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Valefor.Endoq said: »
How do other countries handle vaccines? USA media is so full of hype about vaccines being good or bad. It could be insightful to hear the findings of a second opinion that is untainted by a hyped up fear mongering sensationalized media that is owned by the same people that own the pharmacies. (If such a thing even exist)
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/pages/vaccination-schedule-age-checklist.aspx
https://sundhedsstyrelsen.dk/en/health/vaccination/childhood-vaccination-programme
or for more fun, here:
http://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/Pages/Scheduler.aspx
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By fonewear 2015-02-23 11:57:17
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If I want a smug person to tell me what to do/think I'll get married. Sorta like being a Scientist.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-02-23 11:58:11
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Valefor.Endoq said: »
How do other countries handle vaccines? USA media is so full of hype about vaccines being good or bad. It could be insightful to hear the findings of a second opinion that is untainted by a hyped up fear mongering sensationalized media that is owned by the same people that own the pharmacies. (If such a thing even exist)
Read the primary scientific literature. It's the only way to avoid the media filter.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-02-23 11:59:36
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fonewear said: »
If I want a smug person to tell me what to do/think I'll get married. Sorta like being a Scientist.
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By fonewear 2015-02-23 12:00:15
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Have you ever talked to a Scientist the smugness is contagious !
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-23 12:00:21
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Thanks to trusting a doctor and going against any research she did on the internet over diabetic medications, my mom had to undergo multiple operations due to her blood becoming septic after taking this medication for a month.
I'm always curious when I notice a trend that a certain person always has some conveniently on-the-nose anecdote for everything they argue. A co-worker of mine, for instance, is basically incapable of leaving the house with both of his cars exploding, him snapping his ankle on the job, and then having to spend 40 hours on the phone with the insurance company.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-02-23 12:01:59
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Who wants to inform Chaos that his own link contains evidence on the efficacy of flu shots? I guess I will.

Chaos, your own link contains evidence on the efficacy of flu shots. Try reading to the end sometime.
Quote:
So should people still dutifully line up for their flu shots? Older kids and healthy adults do get some protection from them; just perhaps not as much as they want or expect. But for seniors and toddlers, there may never be a clear answer to this question, particularly because the U.S. government is unlikely to conduct additional clinical trials. On Monday, Osterholm and a group of five other scientists at the University of Minnesota’s Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy published a report highlighting the need for better alternatives. Although the current options may—for most people—be better than nothing, “we can no longer accept the status quo,” they wrote. “The perception that current vaccines are already highly effective in preventing influenza is a major barrier to pursuing game-changing alternatives.”

That's the end of the article (I posted the whole thing). I already fully agree with their conclusion.
Right. I missed the part where they concluded the flu shot was ineffective or didn't fit the current vaccination model.
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-02-23 12:03:16
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Who wants to inform Chaos that his own link contains evidence on the efficacy of flu shots? I guess I will.

Chaos, your own link contains evidence on the efficacy of flu shots. Try reading to the end sometime.
I wondered when someone was going to get around to saying that.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-02-23 12:04:02
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Verda said: »
We still use Newton's forumlas because they work but they weren't the entire picture.
They work, for certain values of the word work. They are a good approximation which gets close enough for most aspects of calculations you would happen to deal with in everyday life, as long as you aren't involved in things extremely large or extremely small.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-02-23 12:05:29
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fonewear said: »
If I want a smug person to tell me what to do/think I'll get married. Sorta like being a Scientist.
To be fair it's usually not the scientists who are smug, but the large groups of people who blindly believe them.

A real scientist is always in doubt, hence the need for others to replicate their results.
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By fonewear 2015-02-23 12:06:51
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Here comes the smugness about how we are wrong.
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By Bloodrose 2015-02-23 12:08:32
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A real scientist has enough confidence in their work to stand behind it, but will seek out other methods for confirming, and refuting the methods used, in the interest of seeking a better method or result.
 Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2015-02-23 12:08:44
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I want to replicate myself
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-02-23 12:08:55
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fonewear said: »
Here comes the smugness about how we are wrong.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-02-23 12:09:19
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Ok, so we're now on the big finale of "scientists don't really know anything".

/jazzhands
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By Ramyrez 2015-02-23 12:09:40
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fonewear said: »
If I want a smug person to tell me what to do/think I'll get married. Sorta like being a Scientist.

Marry better people. :p
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-02-23 12:09:45
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Cerberus.Anjisnu said: »
I want to replicate myself
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-02-23 12:09:58
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Who wants to inform Chaos that his own link contains evidence on the efficacy of flu shots? I guess I will.

Chaos, your own link contains evidence on the efficacy of flu shots. Try reading to the end sometime.
Quote:
So should people still dutifully line up for their flu shots? Older kids and healthy adults do get some protection from them; just perhaps not as much as they want or expect. But for seniors and toddlers, there may never be a clear answer to this question, particularly because the U.S. government is unlikely to conduct additional clinical trials. On Monday, Osterholm and a group of five other scientists at the University of Minnesota’s Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy published a report highlighting the need for better alternatives. Although the current options may—for most people—be better than nothing, “we can no longer accept the status quo,” they wrote. “The perception that current vaccines are already highly effective in preventing influenza is a major barrier to pursuing game-changing alternatives.”

That's the end of the article (I posted the whole thing). I already fully agree with their conclusion.
Right. I missed the part where they concluded the flu shot was ineffective or didn't fit the current vaccination model.
Don't feel too bad, usually people who like arguing to a specific person for the sake of arguing tend to miss important things like that.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-02-23 12:10:26
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Ok, so we're now on the big finale of "scientists don't really know anything".

/jazzhands
Artemicion said: »
YouTube Video Placeholder


Obligatory.
Think he called it.
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By Bloodrose 2015-02-23 12:10:36
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Ok, so we're now on the big finale of "scientists don't really know anything".

/jazzhands
You also forgot the part where they then cite a discredited scientist, or link articles that are antithesis to their point.
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By fonewear 2015-02-23 12:10:39
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Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
If I want a smug person to tell me what to do/think I'll get married. Sorta like being a Scientist.

Marry better people. :p

You show me someone worth marrying I'd like to live in that utopia.
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By Bloodrose 2015-02-23 12:11:38
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fonewear said: »
Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
If I want a smug person to tell me what to do/think I'll get married. Sorta like being a Scientist.

Marry better people. :p

You show me someone worth marrying I'd like to live in that utopia.
Call yourself A Sexual, and claim you want to marry yourself.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-02-23 12:11:56
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fonewear said: »
Here comes the smugness about how we are wrong.
Bloodrose said: »
A real scientist has enough confidence in their work to stand behind it, but will seek out other methods for confirming, and refuting the methods used, in the interest of seeking a better method or result.

That was fast, lol.
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By fonewear 2015-02-23 12:12:05
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That is even too smug for me ! I'd have to be Obama to do that.
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By fonewear 2015-02-23 12:13:22
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When in doubt claim to be authority on subject !
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-02-23 12:13:41
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Bloodrose said: »
fonewear said: »
Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
If I want a smug person to tell me what to do/think I'll get married. Sorta like being a Scientist.

Marry better people. :p

You show me someone worth marrying I'd like to live in that utopia.
Call yourself A Sexual, and claim you want to marry yourself.

I'd have gone with Foni Cation.
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By Bloodrose 2015-02-23 12:15:23
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
fonewear said: »
Here comes the smugness about how we are wrong.
Bloodrose said: »
A real scientist has enough confidence in their work to stand behind it, but will seek out other methods for confirming, and refuting the methods used, in the interest of seeking a better method or result.

That was fast, lol.
Just a different opinion. You have yours, I have mine. I simply elaborated on mine.

Neither are wrong, but if that's your opinion... "insertyoudon'tknowhwhatarealscientistdoes.jpg"
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