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Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,340
By Fenrir.Skarwind 2025-01-27 10:26:26
-Turn jug pets into Ciphers.
I like this idea very much. Does any other job have such limited access to all of their tools? Some of the jug recipes are based on ingredients no one wants to farm.
IIRC Ninja did. So S/E made universal tools, and later added them to a Moogle vendor.
It's great we can buy most things from a NPC store but we are still missing a lot of jugs.
I had to straight up farm shrooms for swirling broths. It wasn't awful but still took up some time. Some of our jugpets use very niche items, logs that randomly drop from HTBF, etc.
It isn't profitable for crafters, so on some servers the jugpets do not exist on the AH. On Fenrir I feel like I am only a handful of BST who actually play the job. Most people just use it for Bumba RP/Cheesing stuff and that is it lol.
Spending time crafting for only a few people isn't the best way to make a profit, I get it. Glad the crafters in my LS were nice enough to help me out.
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Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,804
By Phoenix.Iocus 2025-01-27 12:05:03
Give BST a Diffusion type ability, allowing some pet buff applications to party rather than just BST. Lock the OP pet buffs behind Familiar. It would operate just like BLU, but at least could provide more party support outside of just a handful of pet debuffs. This makes familiar quite valuable again and provides more group utility. Hell even locking the "diffusionesque" ability behind familiar as a whole would be an improvement and then even if some are considered "OP" its still locked behind a 45 minute recast. Increase duration of Familiar to a reasonable time, while active it allows pet buffs to apply to party. Used in conjunction with Unleash its a great pairing and makes sense. You ultimately choose between pet actions or party support by cycling pets.
I don't see why you'd have to make it an ability. Just make Pet buffs AoE instead of Master Only. Then you throw KI on top. You're a real buffer. Most parties still wouldn't take you because they still say lolDRG and 7REMA 5song BRD only.
Naegling exists. Being busted is allowed.
By Shiva.Myamoto 2025-01-27 14:29:10
Yeah it would still sit behind recast time of call beast/bestial loyalty, I only mentioned that because I have said this in the past and it was met with "ohh but pet buffs are op, imagine sheep rage for 50% attack, or vickie haste and counter and mdb etc" I mean so what if you can give your party 50% attack boost from sheep for 9 minutes, a rostam cor does the same without even rolling an 11, let alone with crooked cards. Haste II is a thing, mdb bubble is a thing, counter is only useful on physical attacks.
It's just a tool for BST to contribute better in a party and not be so much as lolBST.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,340
By Fenrir.Skarwind 2025-01-27 14:46:46
Yeah it would still sit behind recast time of call beast/bestial loyalty, I only mentioned that because I have said this in the past and it was met with "ohh but pet buffs are op, imagine sheep rage for 50% attack, or vickie haste and counter and mdb etc" I mean so what if you can give your party 50% attack boost from sheep for 9 minutes, a rostam cor does the same without even rolling an 11, let alone with crooked cards. Haste II is a thing, mdb bubble is a thing, counter is only useful on physical attacks.
It's just a tool for BST to contribute better in a party and not be so much as lolBST.
Vickie is awesome. I also found out the guard boost works with every weapon, not just H2H.
Crying shame we can't share it.
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Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,804
By Phoenix.Iocus 2025-01-27 14:55:55
Yeah it would still sit behind recast time of call beast/bestial loyalty, I only mentioned that because I have said this in the past and it was met with "ohh but pet buffs are op, imagine sheep rage for 50% attack, or vickie haste and counter and mdb etc" I mean so what if you can give your party 50% attack boost from sheep for 9 minutes, a rostam cor does the same without even rolling an 11, let alone with crooked cards. Haste II is a thing, mdb bubble is a thing, counter is only useful on physical attacks.
It's just a tool for BST to contribute better in a party and not be so much as lolBST.
I probably wouldn't continue a discussion with anyone who thinks giving your entire party in range -50% defense is OP either. They sound very ignorant. Magical Haste isn't even remotely rare, you can get that and MDB +more from SMN and they still aren't taken for buff slots.
MNK, BLU, and BST have rock solid counter builds that no one shouts for, no one is giving you a party slot for counter just like they don't ask for counter from COR rolls. I'm pretty sure that counter goes before retaliation anyways so it's slowing down peak naegling WAR deeps.
By Shiva.Myamoto 2025-01-27 15:06:34
Yeah it would still sit behind recast time of call beast/bestial loyalty, I only mentioned that because I have said this in the past and it was met with "ohh but pet buffs are op, imagine sheep rage for 50% attack, or vickie haste and counter and mdb etc" I mean so what if you can give your party 50% attack boost from sheep for 9 minutes, a rostam cor does the same without even rolling an 11, let alone with crooked cards. Haste II is a thing, mdb bubble is a thing, counter is only useful on physical attacks.
It's just a tool for BST to contribute better in a party and not be so much as lolBST.
I probably wouldn't continue a discussion with anyone who thinks giving your entire party in range -50% defense is OP either. They sound very ignorant. Magical Haste isn't even remotely rare, you can get that and MDB +more from SMN and they still aren't taken for buff slots.
MNK, BLU, and BST have rock solid counter builds that no one shouts for, no one is giving you a party slot for counter just like they don't ask for counter from COR rolls. I'm pretty sure that counter goes before retaliation anyways so it's slowing down peak naegling WAR deeps.
100%, hence why I didn't extend the conversation after lol
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Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-01-27 15:11:56
I also found out the guard boost works with every weapon, not just H2H.
Can you explain what you mean by this? I was under the assumption that Guard only activates when using hand-to-hand, or if you're a monster with natural hand-to-hand as your melee damage (like Mandys or Raaz).
Can you actually guard with a non-H2H weapon equipped (like do you get both the ability to guard and parry an attack)? Or maybe the Guard Boost from Zealous Snort grants you the Hand-to-Hand-only Guarding Trait, allowing you to guard even without the correct weapon? This is the first time I am hearing this, but I could have missed it.
Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,804
By Phoenix.Iocus 2025-01-27 17:16:10
It's what it sounds like, you get a buff that lets you guard with your weapon even if it's not h2h. Quick test against apex bats with 1h axe in main hand and nothing in sub.
Normally the damage range of the auto attacks from the bat is 76~131 per hit. If you use jealous snort it can frequently go down as low as 30 damage per hit. There is a flinch animation like a block occurred if you're animation is idle when it occurs.
I'm not going to pretend to know what the activation rate formula is or the damage mitigation, but it works with 1h or dual wield. If Skarwind is saying all weapons then 2h probably work too, I don't have a Scythe out on my BST to test it. I'd assume blocking comes first so you'd probably get mixed results if you wear a shield and i doubt they stack, but i might run back out with a scythe and equip a shield later for my own curiosity. Either way you're not giving it to others.
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 3,340
By Fenrir.Skarwind 2025-01-27 19:51:58
I also found out the guard boost works with every weapon, not just H2H.
Can you explain what you mean by this? I was under the assumption that Guard only activates when using hand-to-hand, or if you're a monster with natural hand-to-hand as your melee damage (like Mandys or Raaz).
Can you actually guard with a non-H2H weapon equipped (like do you get both the ability to guard and parry an attack)? Or maybe the Guard Boost from Zealous Snort grants you the Hand-to-Hand-only Guarding Trait, allowing you to guard even without the correct weapon? This is the first time I am hearing this, but I could have missed it.
I was fighting random stuff with an axe/shield.
Battlemod was showing guards with Zealous Snort active. I was just as surprised. It's probably a guard trait unique to Faz.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-01-27 23:17:23
It's what it sounds like, you get a buff that lets you guard with your weapon even if it's not h2h. Quick test against apex bats with 1h axe in main hand and nothing in sub.
Normally the damage range of the auto attacks from the bat is 76~131 per hit. If you use jealous snort it can frequently go down as low as 30 damage per hit. There is a flinch animation like a block occurred if you're animation is idle when it occurs.
I'm not going to pretend to know what the activation rate formula is or the damage mitigation, but it works with 1h or dual wield. If Skarwind is saying all weapons then 2h probably work too, I don't have a Scythe out on my BST to test it. I'd assume blocking comes first so you'd probably get mixed results if you wear a shield and i doubt they stack, but i might run back out with a scythe and equip a shield later for my own curiosity. Either way you're not giving it to others.
This is very interesting. Should probably add this to the Guard Wiki page, since I don't think there's any mention of this unique trait anywhere else besides maybe this guide.
I'd assume blocking comes first so you'd probably get mixed results if you wear a shield and i doubt they stack, but i might run back out with a scythe and equip a shield later for my own curiosity. Either way you're not giving it to others.
Were you still able to Parry and Shield Block with the buff active? I wonder if it completely disables those other actions. And what would be the priority or order of defensive trait activation between Shield Blocks, Guards or Parries if block/parry wasn't cancelled with this buff? Very cool, I always thought the Guard bonus was useless on BST but I guess not (Guard in general kind of sucks anyways, but any damage mitigation is helpful). I'm less worried about giving it to others and moreso looking at it as a defensive tool; taking less damage is always a good thing. You can even Guard Physical TP moves, so it's helpful there as well. I almost never use the Raaz unless I am solo, but he does have some useful abilities, like Sweeping Gouge can SC with Decimation, applies Defense down, and now you take less physical damage, in addition to the Counter Trait (which is another form of physical damage mitigation). I think its cool
By buttplug 2025-01-28 01:43:11
Where is the hardcore BST with Nyame D Path
Would like to see all that pet DT in action
Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,804
By Phoenix.Iocus 2025-01-28 05:51:33
I have some time to day to run back out and do some tests. I'll pick more apex bats for now since they have enough acc to hit me and enough damage to see differences but I'll probably do a Locus mob or an NM in a later check. I think I'll go /RUN to increase the parry rate to see some interaction and turn on battlemod so im not just eyeballing it.
Edit:
Quick info before I attempt to figure out logger for %s. Blocking, Guarding, Countering, and Parrying were all going off over the duration of a mob. Blocking with a Sacro shield took less damage than guarding does. You can guard jetstream from apex bats. You can also block jetstream.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,340
By Fenrir.Skarwind 2025-01-28 07:03:08
Thanks for the testing. I am currently unsubscribed at the moment. Might pop in once things settle down IRL.
I'll take any form of damage mitigation I can get. It's neat they all work together Atleast.
By SimonSes 2025-01-28 07:20:24
Edit:
Quick info before I attempt to figure out logger for %s. Blocking, Guarding, Countering, and Parrying were all going off over the duration of a mob. Blocking with a Sacro shield took less damage than guarding does. You can guard jetstream from apex bats. You can also block jetstream.
Guard effectiveness raises if you are able to lower mob's cratio against you. This is because guard lowers pdif by a fixed amount (-1.0), so if the mob's pdif is 3.0, guard will lower it to 2.0, which results in -33% damage. If you raise your defense and push mob's pdif to lets say 1.3, guard will lower it to 0.3, which is -77% damage. I'm not entirely sure, but I think lowering pdif below 1.0 will result in guarded hit doing 0 damage.
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Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,804
By Phoenix.Iocus 2025-01-28 08:12:12
So Max duration Zealous Snort is 3 minutes and I'm using logger and then counting occurrences by hand. If anyone knows a better way with a parser or something please feel free to tell me. I can tell already that these are going to be anecdotal at best because the first duration contained no parries until the round after the buffs wore off and it was parrying when I was just eyeballing it, so I'm not even going to continue /RUN and do /WHM for flash.
So only test BST/RUN with Kaja Scythe
41 interactions
13 guards
9 counters
0 parries
6 intimidations
2 misses, 1 directly after a flash
11/41 actions against me resulted in unmitigated damage
3 of those 41 were jet stream, 2 were guarded as included above
I'll toss the guards and regular damage hits below:
[08:04:05] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 74 critical hit Iocus5
[08:04:13] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus7
[08:04:42] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 66 Jet Stream Iocus14
[08:04:48] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 31 hit Iocus15
[08:05:05] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 31 hit Iocus19
[08:05:09] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 31 hit Iocus20
[08:05:11] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 131 Jet Stream Iocus22
[08:05:35] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 41 hit Iocus27
[08:05:44] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 33 hit Iocus29
[08:05:48] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 85 critical hit Iocus30
[08:06:20] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus36
[08:06:24] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 31 hit Iocus37
[08:06:36] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus40
[08:04:21] [Apex ?Bats] 92 hit Iocus8
[08:04:25] [Apex ?Bats] 77 hit Iocus9
[08:04:29] [Apex ?Bats] 117 hit Iocus10
[08:04:37] [Apex ?Bats] 123 hit Iocus12
[08:05:00] [Apex ?Bats] 128 hit Iocus18
[08:05:09] [Apex ?Bats] 79 hit Iocus21
[08:05:40] [Apex ?Bats] 76 hit Iocus28
[08:05:52] [Apex ?Bats] 126 hit Iocus31
[08:06:10] [Apex ?Bats] 91 Jet Stream Iocus33
[08:06:32] [Apex ?Bats] 122 hit Iocus39
[08:06:40] [Apex ?Bats] 71 hit Iocus41
I'll put a couple of these out when I have time at least until parry lands while the buff is up(in case i was eyeballing too hard and not paying enough attention to details). I'll switch to aymur and a shield at some point.
Edit: I'll go /BLU instead of /WHM for cocoon to play with what simon is looking at.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-01-28 10:24:43
I'm using logger and then counting occurrences by hand. If anyone knows a better way with a parser or something please feel free to tell me
There's probably a tool for this, but you can search logs for "parries" "counter" "guarded" (if using battlemod) etc via Notepad++
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Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,804
By Phoenix.Iocus 2025-01-28 11:09:17
Yeah I'm just numbering all the occurrences that count by hand and then tallying them using find.
--
Attempt #2
BST/BLU + BRD/DRK for minuets and bio 2 + cocoon and terror touch
BST defense was 3955, acc was 1291 as it was last time since countering is being recorded
48 interactions
11 guards
14 counters
1 parry
2 intimidations
2 misses
18/48 actions against me resulted in unmitigated damage
1 jet stream, another guard
Minuets were on the entire time and I'll post the guards and normals together and highlight de/buffs on and off:
[11:08:05] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus1
[11:08:09] [Apex ?Bats] 77 hit Iocus3
[11:08:20] [Iocus] Cocoon Iocus
[11:08:32] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus7
[11:08:36] [Apex ?Bats] 69 hit Iocus8
[11:08:38] [Iocus] Terror Touch Apex ?Bats
[11:08:44] [Apex ?Bats] 32 hit Iocus11
[11:08:50] Bio II Apex ?Bats
[11:08:53] [2] [Apex ?Bats] 194 critical hit Iocus13
[11:08:57] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus14
[11:09:08] [Apex ?Bats] 43 hit Iocus16
[11:09:08] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 31 hit Iocus17
[11:09:12] [Apex ?Bats] 61 hit Iocus18
[11:09:20] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 31 hit Iocus20
[11:09:28] [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus22
[11:09:32] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus23
[11:09:36] [Apex ?Bats] 78 hit Iocus25
[11:09:40] [Apex ?Bats] 66 hit Iocus26
[11:09:41] The Apex ?Bats's Attack Down effect wears off.
[11:09:44] [Apex ?Bats] 73 hit Iocus27
[11:09:48] [Iocus] Terror Touch Apex ?Bats
[11:09:52] Iocus's Defense Boost effect wears off.
[11:09:55] [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus30
[11:10:00] [2] [Apex ?Bats] 79 hit Iocus31
[11:10:04] [Apex ?Bats] 95 hit Iocus33
[11:10:08] [Apex ?Bats] 100 hit Iocus34
[11:10:12] [Apex ?Bats] 58 hit Iocus35
[11:10:13] [Iocus] Cocoon Iocus
[11:10:16] [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus37
[11:10:24] [Apex ?Bats] 31 hit Iocus40
[11:10:26] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 95 Jet Stream Iocus41
[11:10:40] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus44
[11:10:44] [Apex ?Bats] 157 critical hit Iocus45
[11:10:48] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 31 hit Iocus46
[11:10:51] The Apex ?Bats's Attack Down effect wears off.
[11:10:55] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 31 hit Iocus47
[11:11:00] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus48
So there was a parry in the log so these buffs don't disable that, pretty sure blocks have gone off while it's up but that is further tests.
I don't know if terror touch and bio 2 stack. I believe that terror touch is attack down and that they do but I didn't get a message that bio wore off in my log before it died. Either way, I didn't get it below 30 by more than doubling my defense and reducing attack by some %. The set I'm in for BST is 40pdt since I don't usually use scythe. Until I use sacro shield or dual wield it will stay that way.
Idk enough about block or guard to make any real statements, but my tin foil hat is telling me that it's called guarding but it's more similar to blocking. I'll switch out to 1h axe with no shield first to see if we can affect that bottom value of 30 at all based on weapon selection. Kaja scythe has less scythe skill than aymur has axe skill and the same goes with BST native skill levels for those weapons. All the other stats on the weapons share no same values.
By SimonSes 2025-01-28 11:48:39
Yeah it kinda looks like some unique defensive mechanic sharing the same name as guard, but working differently.
Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,804
By Phoenix.Iocus 2025-01-28 11:54:16
I was hyped for the idea of getting 0s, but you can probably do that with just some phalanx and I have a pretty ok phalanx set for DRG+BST. So that will be a test at some point.
By SimonSes 2025-01-28 12:10:40
I was hyped for the idea of getting 0s, but you can probably do that with just some phalanx and I have a pretty ok phalanx set for DRG+BST. So that will be a test at some point.
Btw you wrote minutes, but I assume it's a typo and you was actually doing Minnie right?
[+]
Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,804
By Phoenix.Iocus 2025-01-28 13:40:59
Yeah Defense songs for attempt #2
---
Attempt #3
BST/BLU + SCH/RDM phalanx and bio 2 + cocoon
BST defense was 1621 with phalanx, 2431 with cocoon and no phalanx, acc was 1322, EDIT: BST phalanx set is +19 but I'm not thinking it matters.
48 interactions
11 guards
10 counters
1 parry
6 intimidations
2 misses
18/48 actions against me resulted in unmitigated damage
1 jet stream, 1 guard
I started with protect and phalanx and then took them off and applied cocoon and bio 2. Logger and battlemod didn't play well this time do they duplicated entries and omitted timestamps. I think i have to load battle mod, then logger to get previous results: [Apex ?Bats] 58 hit Iocus
[Apex ?Bats] intimidated by Iocus2
Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 0 hit Iocus3
Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 0 hit Iocus4
Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 0 hit Iocus5
[Apex ?Bats] 33 hit Iocus6
[Apex ?Bats] missed Iocus7
[Apex ?Bats] 61 hit Iocus8
[Apex ?Bats] intimidated by Iocus9
Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 0 hit Iocus10
Iocus's Phalanx effect wears off.
[Apex ?Bats] 112 hit Iocus11
[Iocus] Cocoon Iocus
[Apex ?Bats] 114 hit Iocus12
[Iocus] 371 counter Apex ?Bats13
[2] [Iocus] 705 counter Apex ?Bats14
[Apex ?Bats] 122 hit Iocus15
Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 31 hit Iocus16
[Apex ?Bats] 69 hit Iocus17
[Iocus] 797 counter Apex ?Bats18
[Apex ?Bats] 55 hit Iocus19
[Apex ?Bats] parried by Iocus20
[Apex ?Bats] 112 hit Iocus21
[Iocus] 376 counter Apex ?Bats22
Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 63 Jet Stream Iocus23
[Apex ?Bats] 69 hit Iocus24
Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 82 critical hit Iocus25
[Apex ?Bats] 108 hit Iocus26
[Apex ?Bats] intimidated by Iocus27
Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus28
Guarded! [2] [Apex ?Bats] 60 hit Iocus29
[Apex ?Bats] 75 hit Iocus30
Bio II Apex ?Bats
[Apex ?Bats] 81 hit Iocus31
[Apex ?Bats] 55 hit Iocus32
[Iocus] 791 counter Apex ?Bats33
[Apex ?Bats] 72 hit Iocus34
[Apex ?Bats] 33 hit Iocus35
Iocus's Defense Boost effect wears off.
[Iocus] 461 counter Apex ?Bats36
[Iocus] Cocoon Iocus
Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 30 hit Iocus37
[Apex ?Bats] intimidated by Iocus38
[Apex ?Bats] intimidated by Iocus39
[Iocus] 488 counter Apex ?Bats40
[Apex ?Bats] 84 hit Iocus41
[Iocus] 353 counter Apex ?Bats42
[Apex ?Bats] 52 hit Iocus43
[Iocus] 352 counter Apex ?Bats44
[Apex ?Bats] intimidated by Iocus45
[Apex ?Bats] missed Iocus46
A double counter and guard were in there that I caught when putting everything in the spoiler tag. Phalanx made all the guards 0 until i turned it off and swapped back to cocoon and bio 2. Switching Scythe to Axe doesn't seem to affect the guard potency.
I am starting to think guard might have extra activation against tp moves. I haven't been noting Sonic Booms since that should all be meva and nothing to do with these tests. Edit: They miss a fair amount but I suspect that has more to do with the set having 612meva on gear and they miss my pet because ML 32 giving lots of extra stats.
I think next steps is to equip a shield and run a similar test as above which will bring my pdt up to 50%. Then it's time to change mobs to ones that hit harder or weaker but still have some accuracy, then NMs. If anyone has thoughts for next targets, I'd like to hear it.
Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,804
By Phoenix.Iocus 2025-01-28 16:21:36
Attempt #4
BST/BLU + King of Hearts to give phalanx with +19 set on.
BST defense was 1751 with phalanx, 2626 with cocoon and no phalanx, acc was 1322, 50pdt with shield instead of previous attempts 40pdt
52 interactions
18 guards
12 counters
1 parry
0 intimidations
5 misses
3 blocks
13/52 actions against me resulted in unmitigated damage
3 jet streams, 3 guards
The first minute was with Phalanx, the 2nd minute was without phalanx, the 3rd minute was with cocoon:
[15:33:56] [2] [Apex ?Bats] 93 hit Iocus1
[15:34:00] [Iocus] 561 counter Apex ?Bats2
[15:34:04] [Apex ?Bats] 0 hit Iocus3
[15:34:08] [Apex ?Bats] 36 hit Iocus4
[15:34:12] Guarded! [2] [Apex ?Bats] 0 hit Iocus5
[15:34:16] [Apex ?Bats] 95 critical hit Iocus6
[15:34:20] [Apex ?Bats] 32 hit Iocus7
[15:34:24] [Iocus] 412 counter Apex ?Bats8
[15:34:29] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 0 Jet Stream Iocus9
[15:34:32] [Apex ?Bats] 117 critical hit Iocus10
[15:34:36] [Iocus] 501 counter Apex ?Bats11
[15:34:40] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 0 hit Iocus12
[15:34:44] [Iocus] 427 counter Apex ?Bats13
[15:34:48] Blocked! [Apex ?Bats] 0 hit Iocus14
[15:34:52] [Iocus] 547 counter Apex ?Bats15
[15:34:56] [Iocus] 675 counter Apex ?Bats16
[15:35:00] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 0 hit Iocus17
[15:35:04] [Apex ?Bats] 0 hit Iocus18
[15:35:04] [Iocus] 826 counter Apex ?Bats19
[15:35:07] Iocus's Phalanx effect wears off.
[15:35:08] [2] [Apex ?Bats] 136 hit Iocus20
[15:35:11] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 92 Jet Stream Iocus21
[15:35:16] Guarded! [2] [Apex ?Bats] 50 hit Iocus22
[15:35:20] Blocked! [Apex ?Bats] 13 hit Iocus23
[15:35:20] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 25 hit Iocus24
[15:35:24] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 25 hit Iocus25
[15:35:28] [2] [Iocus] 1333 counter Apex ?Bats26
[15:35:32] [Iocus] 408 counter Apex ?Bats27
[15:35:36] [Iocus] 984 counter Apex ?Bats28
[15:35:40] [Apex ?Bats] parried by Iocus29
[15:35:44] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 26 hit Iocus30
[15:35:44] [Apex ?Bats] 92 hit Iocus31
[15:35:51] [Apex ?Bats] missed Iocus32
[15:35:56] [Apex ?Bats] missed Iocus33
15:35:59] [Iocus] Cocoon Iocus
[15:36:00] [Apex ?Bats] 69 hit Iocus34
[15:36:00] Iocus's casting is interrupted.
[15:36:04] [Apex ?Bats] 192 critical hit Iocus35
[15:36:04] [Iocus] Cocoon Iocus
[15:36:08] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 26 hit Iocus36
[15:36:10] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 81 Jet Stream Iocus37
[15:36:15] [Apex ?Bats] missed Iocus38
[15:36:15] [Iocus] 442 counter Apex ?Bats39
[15:36:20] [Apex ?Bats] missed Iocus40
[15:36:20] Blocked! [Apex ?Bats] 12 hit Iocus41
[15:36:23] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 50 critical hit Iocus42
[15:36:28] [Apex ?Bats] 99 hit Iocus43
[15:36:32] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 25 hit Iocus44
[15:36:39] Guarded! [2] [Apex ?Bats] 51 hit Iocus45
[15:36:43] [Apex ?Bats] 75 hit Iocus46
[15:36:47] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 25 hit Iocus47
[15:36:51] [Apex ?Bats] missed Iocus48
At the same second that I got the message that the buffs had worn off I also got these 2, so I didn't include them in the top tallies.
[15:36:55] [Apex ?Bats] 47 hit Iocus
[15:36:55] Blocked! [Apex ?Bats] 16 hit Iocus
So lots of double attack from the bat which is nice for looking if there is anything weird going on. I'm looking at specifically: Code [15:33:56] [2] [Apex ?Bats] 93 hit Iocus1
[15:34:12] Guarded! [2] [Apex ?Bats] 0 hit Iocus5
[15:35:04] [Apex ?Bats] 0 hit Iocus18
[15:35:04] [Iocus] 826 counter Apex ?Bats19
[15:35:08] [2] [Apex ?Bats] 136 hit Iocus20
[15:35:16] Guarded! [2] [Apex ?Bats] 50 hit Iocus22
[15:35:20] Blocked! [Apex ?Bats] 13 hit Iocus23
[15:35:20] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 25 hit Iocus24
[15:35:28] [2] [Iocus] 1333 counter Apex ?Bats26
[15:36:15] [Apex ?Bats] missed Iocus38
[15:36:15] [Iocus] 442 counter Apex ?Bats39
[15:36:39] Guarded! [2] [Apex ?Bats] 51 hit Iocus45
[15:36:55] [Apex ?Bats] 47 hit Iocus
[15:36:55] Blocked! [Apex ?Bats] 16 hit Iocus
Most were mixed defensive options, like a combination of block and guard or miss and block. Which would be normal behavior. There were 3 different occurrences of double guards and there was an occurrence of a block then guard, but there was no occurrence of a guard and then something different. No need to go search for wild theories, I've already got the data I need to disprove anything weird like guarding causes the rest of the attack in a round to also guard. On the first attempt I did, I have the following: Code [08:05:09] Guarded! [Apex ?Bats] 31 hit Iocus20
[08:05:09] [Apex ?Bats] 79 hit Iocus21
Put the tin foil hats away.
Since Block is new, might as well look at it specifically. Block + Phalanx was 0, expected. Block with no extra defense buffs is 13, with cocoon it's 12 as well as 16 at the end after the counter buffs wore off but cocoon was still on. Nothing unexpected. Block with Sacro looks generically stronger than guard against this mob. It's hard to think it will scale differently against tougher mobs but I'm pretty sure that's where the next test is going. I assume Block Rate against Locus mobs isn't going to be amazing.
Fun firsts was a 0 Jet Stream from a Guard with Phalanx up. Also going 3/3 on guarding Jet Stream. Several guards that went under the previous hard bottom end of 30 damage without the use of phalanx because of the increase of pdt from 40 to 50.
Increasing pdt 10% lowered the damage by 5 points, which could mean that this buff normally has a hard bottom end of 50 damage. That's a wishy washy assumption at best and I'm unlikely to make a set with 0 pdt normally so that would have to be a specific test once I see how it performs against different mobs.
There were counter builds a while back in this thread that dealt with the counter side of these buffs that I will be willing to pursue since I have gleti's mask r30. My current project is a Farsha, so I'm hoping this will pair nicely.
[+]
By Gaigin 2025-01-28 20:28:17
Can confrim that guard is great fun. I am soloing Cait Sith on E (apparently until the servers shut down since she refuses to drop anything).
I use the following with sub MNK and Artio's with 10% crit and 10% counter. I do not use counterstance as the counter cap is 80% and I am getting 78% counter with just gear, sub and Vickie. If I could ever get Gleti's Mask augmented to V30 I would get to cap and could rearrange some things. Also get to enjoy 26% crit rate, 46% when Focus is up.
ItemSet 397927
Between Guard and Counter, I get dead Cait Sith and welcome the incoming quad attacks.
Edit: need to use Malignance Gloves to have my hps end in 7 so Level ? Holy doesn't 1 shot me.
Also can confirm that physical TP moves seem to get guard procs a lot, which is great since they cannot be countered.
[+]
By Minaras84 2025-01-29 00:44:30
I forgot the Cryptic earring exists, bloody me.
I have the same (as you know) but i main Farsha, use DA on cape instead of crit, nukumi feet +3 and sherida for a grand total of 41% DA. I dont even mention TA cause its just the ring and maybe one day gleti pants.
Im still debating if Aymur would make more sense, but Farsha is pretty good for Calamity because of all the STR it has.
By SimonSes 2025-01-29 05:21:10
I think this guard from Vickie is completely different mechanic than H2H guard. This high guard rate on TP moves kinda looks like guard rate on WSs against for example apex mandragoras. They will guard almost any WS if you do it from the front. H2H guard on player doesn't have that high activation rate and doesn't seems to have any activation rate bonus against TP moves.
Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,804
By Phoenix.Iocus 2025-01-29 05:43:06
Foil exists so it's not hard to believe that they made something else that targets WSs specifically in the same expansion. I'm at 8/9 for jet streams accross 4 tests. That's way outside the rest of the implied guard rate, but it's also so small sample soze so it's possible. I'm probably going to pick a Locus mob that has mostly physical tp moves to see if i can get more data on this specifically
I'm looking at Locus Scorpions or Rarabs for my next test. Honestly they both sound terrible, which makes them ideal for testing if this ability has any merit. They both have critical strike moves which will make this extra spicy.
[+]
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3,340
By Fenrir.Skarwind 2025-01-29 07:41:11
I'm glad that this has more testing. Part of me was worried about just being crazy or needing my vision checked lmao.
I've been meaning to beat up Cait Sith, but I usually just go MNK with spharai and counter it to death. I'll try out BST next time I get on.
[+]
By Gaigin 2025-01-29 08:05:16
I have the same (as you know) Yes I do know! I am wondering if we should take two BST and use my mighty TH4 instead of your THF to do N.
Im still debating if Aymur would make more sense, but Farsha is pretty good for Calamity because of all the STR it has.
When I can get it rolling, R15 Aymur is best for sure. The problem is getting to 2999 TP and she uses Mewling Lullaby and wipes TP... So frustrating. That and Primal Rend is a Light based WS so the 3000 TP hit cures her and can make the emntiy winky.
By Shiva.Myamoto 2025-01-29 08:29:14
Blazing Wyrm
Can utilize this if you want to really push that little extra. I have done so when crafting counter sets in the past to see just how high a particular job can reach.
Phoenix.Iocus
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,804
By Phoenix.Iocus 2025-01-29 10:47:27
Attempt #5
BST/BLU + King of Hearts to give phalanx with +19 set on.
BST defense was 1751 with phalanx. Phalanx stayed up the entire time because scorpions in KRT.
38 interactions
13 guards
5 counters
0 parry
0 intimidations
1 misses
1 block
20/38 actions against me resulted in unmitigated damage
4 tp moves, 2 guards, 1 miss, 1 full damage
I bolded the data of where Cherukiki was killed, I went another 2+ minutes before I felt like warping out from being in danger.
[08:49:28] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 56 hit ¨ Iocus1
[08:49:33] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 190 critical hit ¨ Iocus2
[08:49:42] [Iocus] 372 counter ¨ Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion3
[08:49:47] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 67 hit ¨ Iocus4
[08:49:47] [Iocus] 818 counter ¨ Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion5
[08:49:51] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] missed ¨ Iocus6
[08:49:55] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] Death Scissors (Miss) ¨ Iocus7
[08:49:59] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 29 hit ¨ Iocus8
[08:50:04] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 23 hit ¨ Iocus9
[08:50:09] Guarded! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 hit ¨ Iocus10
[08:50:14] Guarded! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 hit ¨ Iocus11
[08:50:18] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 66 hit ¨ Iocus12
[08:50:23] [2] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 59 hit ¨ Iocus13
[08:50:28] Guarded! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 hit ¨ Iocus14
[08:50:32] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] missed ¨ Iocus15
[08:50:34] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 674 Wild Rage ¨ Iocus16
[08:50:34] AOE 938 ¨ Cherukiki
[08:50:34] AOE 628 ¨ VivaciousVickie
[08:50:50] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 207 critical hit ¨ Iocus17
[08:50:54] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 64 hit ¨ Iocus18
[08:51:00] Guarded! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 458 Death Scissors ¨ Iocus19
[08:51:02] Guarded! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 63 critical hit ¨ Iocus20
[08:51:07] Guarded! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 hit ¨ Iocus21
[08:51:07] [Iocus] 397 counter ¨ Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion22
[08:51:12] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 65 hit ¨ Iocus23
[08:51:17] Guarded! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 hit ¨ Iocus24
[08:51:42] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 57 hit ¨ Iocus25
[08:51:46] Guarded! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 248 Wild Rage ¨ Iocus26
[08:51:46] AOE 943 ¨ Cherukiki
[08:51:46] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] evaded by ¨ VivaciousVickie
[08:51:46] The Locus Cutlass Scorpion defeats Cherukiki.
[08:51:49] Guarded! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 hit ¨ Iocus27
[08:51:54] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 62 hit ¨ Iocus28
[08:51:54] Guarded! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 hit ¨ Iocus29
[08:51:59] Guarded! [2] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 hit ¨ Iocus30
[08:52:03] [Iocus] 331 counter ¨ Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion31
[08:52:08] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 21 hit ¨ Iocus32
[08:52:13] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 62 hit ¨ Iocus33
[08:52:13] Blocked! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 hit ¨ Iocus34
[08:52:18] [Iocus] 318 counter ¨ Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion35
[08:52:23] Guarded! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 hit ¨ Iocus36
This 2nd set of data is with phalanx on. It's when I was building pet tp for zealous snort and after it wore off.
40 interactions
0 guards, obviously
0 counters, ^again
2 parries
2 intimidations
3 misses
5 blocks
28/40 actions against me resulted in unmitigated damage
4 tp moves, 1 block, 1 full damage, 1 magical, 1 breath
[08:48:15] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 138 hit ¨ Iocus63
[08:48:11] [KingOfHearts] Phalanx II ¨ Iocus
[08:48:29] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 25 hit ¨ Iocus64
[08:48:39] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] parried by ¨ Iocus65
[08:48:44] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 42 hit ¨ Iocus66
[08:48:45] Blocked! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 320 Death Scissors ¨ Iocus67
[08:48:51] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 60 hit ¨ Iocus68
[08:48:56] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] intimidated by ¨ Iocus69
[08:49:01] [2] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 55 hit ¨ Iocus70
[08:49:06] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 130 critical hit ¨ Iocus71
[08:49:15] [2] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 85 hit ¨ Iocus72
[08:49:18] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 41 Earth Pounder ¨ Iocus73
[08:49:18] AOE 65 ¨ KingOfHearts
[08:49:18] AOE 96 ¨ Cherukiki
[08:49:18] AOE 146 ¨ VivaciousVickie
[08:49:23] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 19 hit ¨ Iocus74
[08:52:27] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 60 hit ¨ Iocus37
[08:52:32] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 51 hit ¨ Iocus38
[08:52:34] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 36 Earth Pounder ¨ Iocus39
[08:52:40] Blocked! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 hit ¨ Iocus40
[08:52:44] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 64 hit ¨ Iocus41
[08:52:49] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] missed ¨ Iocus42
[08:52:54] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] parried by ¨ Iocus43
[08:52:54] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 27 hit ¨ Iocus44
[08:52:58] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 68 hit ¨ Iocus45
[08:53:03] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 50 hit ¨ Iocus46
[08:53:08] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 62 hit ¨ Iocus47
[08:53:12] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 Numbing Breath ¨ Iocus48
[08:53:12] AOE 6 ¨ VivaciousVickie
[08:53:17] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 64 hit ¨ Iocus49
[08:53:22] Blocked! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 hit ¨ Iocus50
[08:53:27] Blocked! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 0 critical hit ¨ Iocus51
[08:53:31] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 28 hit ¨ Iocus52
[08:53:31] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] missed ¨ Iocus53
[08:53:36] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 56 hit ¨ Iocus54
[08:53:38] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 895 Death Scissors ¨ Iocus55
[08:53:44] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 29 hit ¨ Iocus56
[08:53:49] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 37 hit ¨ Iocus57
[08:53:54] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] missed ¨ Iocus58
[08:54:08] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 11 hit ¨ Iocus59
[08:54:13] Blocked! [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 8 hit ¨ Iocus60
[08:54:17] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] intimidated by ¨ Iocus61
[08:54:22] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] 57 hit ¨ Iocus62
So before I even attempt to do any analysis I just want to point this out. I realized I didn't know that pets could parry and this is outside of zealous snort so there is no secret sauce going on. I'm just vividly getting anime playing out in my head with a boar ***talking a giant scorpion while pushing their attack aside with their oversized tusks. I assume parry is another stat that is increased with MLs for pets and I will do no testing to confirm that thought. Code [08:53:58] [Locus?Cutlass?Scorpion] parried by ¨ VivaciousVickie59
So we'll start with guards because they are simple. All guards resulted in 0 damage taken, unless it was a critical or a tp move. We can't tell as much until I do a test without phalanx. The 1 critical that was guarded resulted in 63 damage. The only guarded criticals I have from apex bats were without phalanx and were 82, 74, 85 but I can also -54 from that value since that's my phalanx with my set and not shockingly the scorpion hits harder than the lower level bat. Guarded Death Scissors did 458 Death Scissors vs unguarded 895 Death Scissors vs blocked 320 Death Scissors. My brain is too mush at this point from transcribing to trying to grasp at the implications of the math other than blocking mitigates more, but guarding seems to mitigate more often(speculative still). Guarded 248 Wild Rage vs unguarded 674 Wild Rage makes guarding look pretty good. Even better when you see that Cherukiki took 900+ damage each time which is about a 50% increase from what I took, as though I have 50% pdt on and she doesn't.
I wish Vickie had taken damage from Wild Rage both times. She took less damage that I did when I didn't guard. I only have 8% DT for her from gleti's glove and stout servant would give another 9%. Vickie isn't engaged during either occurrences and I don't know if guarding works without being engaged, but it's not hard to test with how frequently it happens to me. I don't know enough about pets in general or vickie to do much with that.
Vickie taking the most out of Earthpounder because she doesn't have shell or Zealous snort up makes sense. KoH and I both had phalax for that so 35 more damage than listed for him and 54 more for me and we're closer to Cherukiki.
Numbing breath did almost no damage to either of us with me taking 0 from phalanx.
A lot less straightforward is still how guard mitigates damage. The highest regular autoattack I have with phalanx on is a 68 hit. All normal guarded phalanx hits are 0s as above. There was a recording of a 138 hit right before phalanx went on. If you apply -54 then it's still at a 84 hit so it could be that protect wasn't on yet either. I'm going to do one without phalanx for the duration next to hopefully get more useful data. I'll probably only do another sample in KRT because it's hard to find an unproblematic spot that I can pull a scorpion to that doesn't fill up my logs with info from all the people botting and their trusts. So if anyone has specific tests they want done, please tell me.
Last note is i saw 5 blocks when there were no counters or guards which doesn't tell us anything yet, but does imply that blocking is after at least one of them. If anyone knows the order of defensive actions, please tell me because I haven't committed it to memory and I didn't find it searching bg wiki pages for the defensive actions themselves.
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