(Does) Occ. Absorbs Magic Damage (stack)?

Anyone have one built or a list with all of the possible Occ abs mgk gear available? I'm looking for a hybrid between Acc/Haste/Absorb/PDT. Most I can think of is Warder's/Engulfer+1/Abyssea ammos. I find myself taking more damage on magical during avatars than I do with physical (obviously spamming utsu).

Just looking for some mix and match options, not a complete set. Also, any idea if there are those abyssea ammo pieces that can be combined into one later on?

Shadow and Archon Rings are occ annulls mdt.

You've pretty much covered the useful ones. There's a bunch of element specific absorb capes, (two fire ones even) but the proc rates are generally either the same or lower than Engulfer.
Shadow ring is good. It's got a surprisingly high proc rate(13%.)

But I wouldn't bother with archon ring. It has a scherzo-esque proc requirement, which is pretty much never gonna happen to a RUN. And apparently a really crappy proc rate. To the point that when I tried to test it, I Never saw it proc. So either the requirement is that the dmg one shots you, or the proc rate is painfully low. Or possibly both. -_-;

I'll have to work on getting a shadow ring and I'll buy an Engulfer. Looking for more ways to "Liement" unexpectedly.

Any idea what engulfer/Warder proc rate is?

I have a very good Idea, as I tested them both.

I've only tested NQ warder, but I doubt the HQ proc rate is any higher.

Both warder and engulfer+1 are at 5% proc rate.

You didn't ask but BG lists shadow ring as 13%

Are these values additive, like PDT? Or does the highest value just win? I'm looking for a way to resist or absorb magical damage occasionally when I'm in my PDT/Hybrid build. I was looking for something to use towards the second half of fights, when my MP starts to diminish a little and I have to conserve Foil/SS use.

Shadow ring looks promising. That NM is easy to kill now, right?

You know, I actually dunno how they stack. I never tested multiple pieces at once.

My guess would be that they either stack additively into the same proc chance, or that it checks each after the other. But again, I can't say for certain.

Would be unusual if they each proc'd individually, seems like it would be annoying and time consuming to code for every absorb piece. Maybe JA/Equip have their own caps. Either way, there isn't enough gear available to test I think.

I really doubt there's any kinda of attainable cap for it.

But one could certainly test how the piece interact. Warder's+Engulfer, and see what rate you get. 10% would mean additive stacking. 5% would imply a cap, or that only one piece gets checked. And something between 5~10% would suggest multi-step checks.

Could also toss in a sachet to see if element specific absorb stacks the same.

And testing how shadow ring interacts with absorb could be interesting.

I tested Warders (NQ) and Engulfers +1 simultaneously and didn't observe any difference compared to using each one by itself. Tested on that Abyssea - Tahrongi version of Ouryu, since all he does is use earth attacks. As such, I'm sticking with Engulfer +1 since Twilight Torque exists.

Shadow Ring and Engulfer has been a staple of my MDT sets, and it's proven exceptionally effective to the point where soloing Hurkan on THF is a joke and easier than any of the other WKRs. I have also seen both items proc on Arrogance Incarnate.

I used to carry around the sachets but it seemed unnecessary compared to Vanir Battery and other melee ammo. The proc rate on sachets and WKR capes seems lower than Engulfer or Warder's, and didn't feel like it was contributing.

Engulfer's cape, if I'm not mistaken, is around a 5% proc rate (including the +1), while the sachets and elemental capes seem to be about a 1-2% proc rate.

This is my personal experience, but I seem to see an increased rate of absorbing magic damage when stacking both the cape and warder's, or I'm just getting lucky. Chances are it's the latter, as much as I want to believe it's the former.

That said, Engulfer's +1 and Twilight Torque is something I would agree on.

Hmmmm. I really didn't want this to be the case, But my data supports yours, Jeanpaul. Warders and Engulfer's absorb don't stack.

Engulfer+1 + Warder's(NQ)
spikes 2244
absorb 119
5.3%

Should have been higher if they even check in multitple steps, much less if they stacked additively. Sucks.

Moving along, elemental cape proc rates. I'm only testing Fire, but it's reasonably safe to assume identical proc rates for the others.

Buquwik
spikes 1637
absorb 53
3.23%

So yeah, stick with engulfer.

A bit on shadow ring/absorb interaction.

Shadow+engulfer+1
spikes 1213
absorb 59
0 DMG 129
Absorb 4.86%
Shadow 10.63%

Known engulfer proc rate is 5%. Known Shadow ring proc rate is 13%. Absorb being nearly spot on and Shadow being ~3% below tends to imply that absorbs proc first. Well, that or they can both proc, and I just don't catch them cause I absorb 0 when HP is full. <,<

Does the Nocturnus Helm/Mail not stack as well? Or PLD Empyrean? If it all stacks, yet the Warder's Charm doesn't, may be worth submitting as a bug or asking the dev team if it's intentional.

Also, Shadow Ring is 12%, according to the JP guide book and wiki.

発動率は12%程度。-Trigger percent is 12%
ファイナルファンタジーXI プレミアガイド2013 -武器・防具ナビ- (ファミ通の攻略本)より - FF11 Vanadiel Premier Guide 2013 - Arms & Armor Navigation

Note: They list Shadow Mantle, Nocturnus Helm and Mail as 5% but say they need more testing. For some reason, the guide books aren't sourced on those 3 pages. Weird they have info for the Shadow Ring though.

I dunno about any of the older absorb pieces. This was the first time I tried testing stacked absorb at all. I figured I'd test them at some point, but just hadn't got around to it.

Interesting results Martel. I appreciate the testing.

Coincidentally, I just got warders & HQ (tossed nq) about 10min ago, andf got lucky enough to find an engulfer+1 in stock this week.

I know its based on jobs, but I personally prefer to use Wiglen Gorget for neck on RUN, since that mdt is literally a non-factor on a job that is so magic defensively buffed. That 1% PDT matters for me, specifically since I would be subbing Mollusca/Aug Evasionists.

But I really appreciate the testing. Assuming Warder's+1 is ever needed for my elemental resist sets, I'll consider using it with rune legs +1

Sorry - after going over gear and looking at stats and reading these results over again, I'm starting to question why people are using twilight/engulfer over warder+1/mollusca? Mollusca hass higher defense, and is the same DT. Have we been able to confirm if warders+1 is 5%? If it is, then the latter combination situationally would be better than the former, since you'd get supplemental elemental boosts and enmity, assuming your job can equip it and you would want enm.

Warder+1 has not been tested, to my knowledge. But it seems extremely unlikely that it would be any lower than the NQ. Which IS verified at 5%.

Personally, anything with movement- on it pisses me off. but if I had a DT-5% Evasionist's Cape then that+warder's seems like the superior option to me.

Definitely a lot cheaper and easier to get a Twilight and Engulfer +1 compared to a Mollusca and Warder +1. Since I also will use this combo for jobs other than RUN where capping MDT is a little harder, Twilight/Engulfer +1 comes ahead in total MDT. It also allows me to not worry about needing MDT in other slots to make up the difference. With Defending Ring, Twilight Torque, Futhark Coat +1, and Engulfer +1, you're set on MDT with Shell V and not using Embolden.

Ok thanks for confirming. Was just trying to understand, as I particularly had RUN in mind when I asked this thread question.

Gonna post this here since it's tangentially related and I don't want to make a new thread. Couldn't find any infodumps or sources, so did some testing on damage nullification, specifically I wanted to check if each different effect stacks additively or multiplicatively and if things stack at all. Also took a bit of time to retest Shadow Ring null% rate just to make sure since the data is old and was a relatively small sample size.

Tests were done w/ Carol +9 on FCII, 5/5 WHM emp on Barfira. Locus Thousand Eyes for Blaze Spikes w/ Kraken Club for fast sample collection.

Carol II, Barspell, Shadow Ring
Spike Hits: 3609
0 Damage Spike Hits: 1515
% Nullified: 41.98%
Expected %: 49%, 56.65%, or 53.44%


Carol II, Barspell
Spike Hits: 2568
0 Damage Spike Hits: 988
% Nullified: 38.47%
Expected %: 37% or 39.7%


Shadow Ring
Spike Hits: 3660
0 Damage Spike Hits: 438
% Nullified: 11.97%
Expected %: 13%


What to take from this:

-Shadow Ring is 12%, not 13%.

-Nullification rate probably caps at or around 40%. Means you aren't getting the full benefit of something when you're stacking all 3 sources.

-Ring, Barspell, and Carol null% probably stack (result for all 3 is too high for ring to not be doing anything, even with the 40% cap).

-I still don't know for sure if it's + or x lol. Could be either one within margin of error and I'd need to get more samples to know for sure, but...



Will expand sample sizes when I have time/feel like it to actually solve the main question that I had and to get some Shadow Ring + Carol and/or Shadow Ring + Barspell data. Was hoping for the all 3 dataset to tell me that but the 40% thing really threw a wrench into it (diff between 50, 53, 56 would've been clearer than 37 and 39). Got something out of this at least.

This is stated in the Carol page on BGwiki. I'm not sure when it was tested though or why this isn't on the Nullification page.

It's really awesome to see other people testing things like this! I also did some testing on Nullification/Absorb a little while ago. These were my results here and here.

Edit: On a slightly related note, I do have an "oh ***" set for PLD when I know moves like Aita's Vivisection will floor me. The set below gives me:

11% chance to annul physical damage.
5% chance to absorb physical damage.
17~18% chance to annul magic damage.
12~13% chance to absorb magic damage (of a specific element).

ItemSet 390191

Great idea. Why not Archon ring too?

Barspells and Carol effects are pretty similar. Element specific, both nullify the damage (not absorb).

There's not many other items that can annul magic damage in game.
Ajax+1, and that's it? And you don't really use that in current-day scenarios.
Well there's Founder's Breastplate and Srivatsa, but they annul all damage (not specifically magic) and I wouldn't say they're particularly relevant either nowadays.

Shadow Ring, being a slightly different effect from the Carol/Barspell one, probably is a separate check? Altough still subject to the max 40% cap that you found out, and that's what really matters I guess.
Shame you can't reach the 40% cap with just carol and barspell.


Weeeeeeell... Technically you can, with Soulvoice.
You go from 27% rate to 54% 40%.
Which personally perfectly matches with my experience.
On a hunch, without ever parsing, I always had the feeling that the annul rate with SV wasn't double as much the basic one, and thanks to Prothescar's test now we know exactly why.



@Felgarr
Archon is not relevant for this test because its rate of damage annulation only happens when the incoming damage would deal more than a certain % (85%?) of your health.
It's SEVERE magic damage, not plain magic damage.

Ya I never used other annul gear for ngai cuz I used water carol II. Tho I wonder if absorb gear is still limited by 40% cap?

There's some relevant absorb gear indeed. Warder's Charm for sure, I guess maybe Engulfer Cape. Then there's the PLD and RUN empy set bonuses. Anything else?

I doubt they fall under the same 40% cap, it's a different effect.
I'm sure it does have a cap but I can bet it's a separate check.
Now it makes you wonder which check gets performed first by the game... Absorb or Annuls?



Either way this changes gearing paradygm for some fights where you know you're gonna have SV Carol II for all of the duration. Because in those situations, even without 5/5 Empy Barspell, you're gonna be at cap and hence don't need additional gear like Shadow Ring or whatever else.

Well, if were talking say, Nagai, I'd use Shadow anyway cause it can prevent the death effect on Tidal Guillotine.

Very useful information, thanks for sharing and taking the time to do this.

Damn I made this thread in 2015 and research is still going strong 9 years later.

#imold

Hey Dekar, got confused with you mentioning the Nullification page and decided to double check. Appears there was two pages...

Only just realized there's the Damage Nullification page which is a stub with listed gear.. and then there's the Annuls Damage page which has the listed information on bg. Suppose that's my own fault for not checking properly before hand.