Asura.Alexandero said: »
This is fun... isn't it?
It's just fertile ground for hostility. It's why I try to stay away most of the time. Try.
Are All Terrorists Muslims? It’s Not Even Close |
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Are All Terrorists Muslims? It’s Not Even Close
Asura.Alexandero said: » This is fun... isn't it? It's just fertile ground for hostility. It's why I try to stay away most of the time. Try. Hey the bible says you should do whatever the f I say seha!
Asura.Alexandero said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Thank you. You actually pointed out my point. It doesn't matter what we think. He is either there or he isn't, regardless of what we believe. Like I said earlier. The earth revolved around the sun long before we thought so. What we think defines if he even existed. If we think he existed, then there is the possibility that he existed. If we don't think he ever existed, then he never existed period. So, it does matter if we think he existed or not. Valefor.Sehachan said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » This is fun... isn't it? It's just fertile ground for hostility. It's why I try to stay away most of the time. Try. Asura.Alexandero said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » It's not very often that I can look at a group people arguing two sides of an argument and think that not even one of them has a clue. As soon as I have time to write out a thorough and coherent response, I'd love to. Right now it's like I'm watching 1st graders debate the pros and cons of a piece of classical art, though, so I'm not sure where to begin anyway. Asura.Alexandero said: » Why though? Bahamut.Ravael said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » It's not very often that I can look at a group people arguing two sides of an argument and think that not even one of them has a clue. As soon as I have time to write out a thorough and coherent response, I'd love to. Right now it's like I'm watching 1st graders debate the pros and cons of a piece of classical art, though, so I'm not sure where to begin anyway. Asura.Kingnobody said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Thank you. You actually pointed out my point. It doesn't matter what we think. He is either there or he isn't, regardless of what we believe. Like I said earlier. The earth revolved around the sun long before we thought so. What we think defines if he even existed. If we think he existed, then there is the possibility that he existed. If we don't think he ever existed, then he never existed period. So, it does matter if we think he existed or not. In reality, the actuality of God, whether he really exists or not, has nothing to do with what we think. Obviously, if he doesn't, then we made him up. If he does, then he is there no matter what we think. Short version. I believe in God. If he really isnt there, then I made him up. If he is, then he is there even if I stop believing. You don't believe in God. If he really isnt there, then you are right, we made him up. If he is, then he is there even if you don't think he is. ScaevolaBahamut said: » Odin.Blazeoffury said: » ScaevolaBahamut said: » Odin.Blazeoffury said: » You believe he had crimes against the state because a man wrote it. I believe in the story of His divinity because i believe the writers were divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit. I find it hypocritical that you believe one man's writing from 2000 years ago if its in favor of your view but denounce one that opposes it by saying "it was written 2000 years ago" We accept that a man named Jesus founded (or at least semi-inspired) a strange sect of Judaism and was martyred by the Roman Empire because of it around 30ish AD because this is important, don't gloss over it Christians came out of nowhere to be a pretty widespread cult by 100 AD. Something happened, and even if the logistics of the Christianity we know today ultimately had way more to do with Paul, they weren't his ideas originally because other Christian sects existed all around the Empire without his knowledge or consent. I'm not trying to evaluate who had the right of what Jesus's life actually meant. I'm just observing that where there's smoke, there's fire; the overnight existence of multiple cults tracing lineage to one spiritual leader can confirm the existence of that leader even if everything said about him is legend. Muhammad is actually a much better example of this: you might think everything the Qu'ran says about his life is false, but somebody unified the Arabian peninsula in the seventh century and everybody says it was him, so at the very least he most likely existed. Asura.Kingnobody said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » It's not very often that I can look at a group people arguing two sides of an argument and think that not even one of them has a clue. As soon as I have time to write out a thorough and coherent response, I'd love to. Right now it's like I'm watching 1st graders debate the pros and cons of a piece of classical art, though, so I'm not sure where to begin anyway. Asura.Alexandero said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Thank you. You actually pointed out my point. It doesn't matter what we think. He is either there or he isn't, regardless of what we believe. Like I said earlier. The earth revolved around the sun long before we thought so. What we think defines if he even existed. If we think he existed, then there is the possibility that he existed. If we don't think he ever existed, then he never existed period. So, it does matter if we think he existed or not. In reality, the actuality of God, whether he really exists or not, has nothing to do with what we think. Obviously, if he doesn't, then we made him up. If he does, then he is there no matter what we think. Bahamut.Ravael said: » It's not very often that I can look at a group people arguing two sides of an argument and think that not even one of them has a clue. Great, we needed an Imam in the thread. Enlighten pls. Bahamut.Ravael said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » It's not very often that I can look at a group people arguing two sides of an argument and think that not even one of them has a clue. As soon as I have time to write out a thorough and coherent response, I'd love to. Right now it's like I'm watching 1st graders debate the pros and cons of a piece of classical art, though, so I'm not sure where to begin anyway. "My Father can beat up your Father!" Valefor.Sehachan said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » This is fun... isn't it? It's just fertile ground for hostility. It's why I try to stay away most of the time. Try. Then you must really hate sports. Asura.Kingnobody said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Thank you. You actually pointed out my point. It doesn't matter what we think. He is either there or he isn't, regardless of what we believe. Like I said earlier. The earth revolved around the sun long before we thought so. What we think defines if he even existed. If we think he existed, then there is the possibility that he existed. If we don't think he ever existed, then he never existed period. So, it does matter if we think he existed or not. In reality, the actuality of God, whether he really exists or not, has nothing to do with what we think. Obviously, if he doesn't, then we made him up. If he does, then he is there no matter what we think. The Native American peoples believe in a "Creator", but is not all powerful or omnipotent.
I am a descendant of these people, and have witnessed many of the rituals that were not destroyed by Christian and Catholic people. Yet I was raised to be Christian, and to develop my beliefs based on the Christian Doctrine. However, I have opted, after many years of looking into many different religions, and spiritual customs, have opted to be more Spiritual. In the Native American culture, "God" does not exist, but a Creator does. a Creator is not omnipotent, omniscient, or all encompassing (meaning in this context, to be everywhere). They perform a cleansing ritual using a plant called sage, and the smoke that comes from it, to waft it over their bodies to converse with their spirit animals or with the Creator. It is in bad taste among the various cultures to ask the Creator for more than what was provided, however it is quite alright to ask the Creator to watch over them, or others during times of hardship. That aside, "God" works in much the same way. "God" has already provided us with everything we could possibly need, yet needs nothing in return. Not even our devotion. People pray for forgiveness, when it is not he who forgives, as he does not judge. We ask for patience, when we already have it, yet fail to exercise it, most notably when we are offered limitless possibilities to do so. If we have indeed, been given everything we need, and he needs nothing in return, why, then, do we in turn (as humans) believe that we can interpret God's will, and enforce it, if that will is ultimately free will? Under what illusion of God's will do we have free will, if we choose to do something in the name of God because it is his will, and not our own? Morals are also subjective to what kind of beliefs you have, how you were raised, or how you interpret the entirety of everything you know, believe, or perceive. Humans are not inherently wicked, nor are they inherently good. Humans are survivalists, but also squishy and soft. One could argue, that because of our advances in medicine and science, we have surpassed the realm of evolution, into the realm of being a creator, although more accurately, a provider. We've begun to dabble in the science of mutations, and have been the express cause of forced evolution upon that which we decree is beneath us, often as a side effect, and to a lesser extent, as a benefit to us, rather than to all that live with us. Asura.Kingnobody said: » Odin.Blazeoffury said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Odin.Blazeoffury said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Odin.Blazeoffury said: » Cerberus.Anjisnu said: » Also what about all the people who never even *** heard of god they get a mulligan or just *** from birth? You know that the bible is written by man, not by God. If God is so great, why not use him as a primary source instead of a secondary source like the bible? Jesus claimed (either himself, which is highly unlikely, or by a third person, which is very likely) to be the son of God. You know what happens to people who claim to be the son of God? They get rounded up and sent to the funny farm. What the Christian Bible did was take a figure from history who was martyred by the Roman Empire for crimes against the state and created a religion around him. How much of the Christian Jesus is true is hard to say, but his "miraculous works" is fiction, along with his supposed method of being born. Do you believe that Harry Potter is real? He preformed what normal people would consider to be miracles. His miracles are defined by a book. The book defines the character. So, is Harry Potter real? If you say no, then what separates Harry Potter from Jesus? If you say yes, then you have no basis in reality. Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Then you must really hate sports. Odin.Blazeoffury said: » . Because there is proof outside of the bible the proves that the man Jesus did exist and there was much said about Him in association with miracles. As I explained, the evidence of the existence of Jesus as an historical figure has basically nothing to do with anything specifically attributed to him. Asura.Alexandero said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Thank you. You actually pointed out my point. It doesn't matter what we think. He is either there or he isn't, regardless of what we believe. Like I said earlier. The earth revolved around the sun long before we thought so. What we think defines if he even existed. If we think he existed, then there is the possibility that he existed. If we don't think he ever existed, then he never existed period. So, it does matter if we think he existed or not. In reality, the actuality of God, whether he really exists or not, has nothing to do with what we think. Obviously, if he doesn't, then we made him up. If he does, then he is there no matter what we think. If religion never existed, there would be no concept of God, and without a concept of God, he would cease being God and will be known as an unknown. Since the unknown cannot be known without evidence of existence, the being formally known as God would not exist because by definition of the (now nonexistent religious text) concept of God requires a defined existence which never existed. Odin.Blazeoffury said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Odin.Blazeoffury said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Odin.Blazeoffury said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Odin.Blazeoffury said: » Cerberus.Anjisnu said: » Also what about all the people who never even *** heard of god they get a mulligan or just *** from birth? You know that the bible is written by man, not by God. If God is so great, why not use him as a primary source instead of a secondary source like the bible? Jesus claimed (either himself, which is highly unlikely, or by a third person, which is very likely) to be the son of God. You know what happens to people who claim to be the son of God? They get rounded up and sent to the funny farm. What the Christian Bible did was take a figure from history who was martyred by the Roman Empire for crimes against the state and created a religion around him. How much of the Christian Jesus is true is hard to say, but his "miraculous works" is fiction, along with his supposed method of being born. Do you believe that Harry Potter is real? He preformed what normal people would consider to be miracles. His miracles are defined by a book. The book defines the character. So, is Harry Potter real? If you say no, then what separates Harry Potter from Jesus? If you say yes, then you have no basis in reality. Scholars agree on the historicity of Jesus. We have testimonials that date to only a decade after his existence from various, independent sources. All of which make the same claims. You'll have to do the research for this, it would take a book for me to type all of that out. Now, to put that into perspective, the earliest documents we have of Alexander the Great occured 600 years after his death. You can't reject whether Jesus existed without rejecting the existence of Alexander and Ceasar Augustus. If that is your stance, then that's fine. There can be no more argument because you simply reject historical documents. Caitsith.Shiroi said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Come on King. We've been through this. If he actually exists, then he would exists regardless of religion, or our beliefs, or w/e. If God really exists and humans never did, he wouldn't cease to exist. He is either there or he isn't and it doesn't matter if we think he is or isnt. If we go by your way of thinking. If god exist, something created it, if something created it, something created what created it and so on infinitely. So which god do you want to believe in? Potato Jesus I'm a Russetarian Odin.Blazeoffury said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Odin.Blazeoffury said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Odin.Blazeoffury said: » Asura.Kingnobody said: » Odin.Blazeoffury said: » Cerberus.Anjisnu said: » Also what about all the people who never even *** heard of god they get a mulligan or just *** from birth? You know that the bible is written by man, not by God. If God is so great, why not use him as a primary source instead of a secondary source like the bible? Jesus claimed (either himself, which is highly unlikely, or by a third person, which is very likely) to be the son of God. You know what happens to people who claim to be the son of God? They get rounded up and sent to the funny farm. What the Christian Bible did was take a figure from history who was martyred by the Roman Empire for crimes against the state and created a religion around him. How much of the Christian Jesus is true is hard to say, but his "miraculous works" is fiction, along with his supposed method of being born. Do you believe that Harry Potter is real? He preformed what normal people would consider to be miracles. His miracles are defined by a book. The book defines the character. So, is Harry Potter real? If you say no, then what separates Harry Potter from Jesus? If you say yes, then you have no basis in reality. I could write a book about you as a person who flew on unicorns all around the world in a different universe. You would argue that those events happened because the book wrote about a real person (you), even though it is impossible for you do preform anything written in that book (so-called miracles). Bloodrose said: » The Native American peoples believe in a "Creator", but is not all powerful or omnipotent. I am a descendant of these people, and have witnessed many of the rituals that were not destroyed by Christian and Catholic people. Yet I was raised to be Christian, and to develop my beliefs based on the Christian Doctrine. However, I have opted, after many years of looking into many different religions, and spiritual customs, have opted to be more Spiritual. In the Native American culture, "God" does not exist, but a Creator does. a Creator is not omnipotent, omniscient, or all encompassing (meaning in this context, to be everywhere). They perform a cleansing ritual using a plant called sage, and the smoke that comes from it, to waft it over their bodies to converse with their spirit animals or with the Creator. It is in bad taste among the various cultures to ask the Creator for more than what was provided, however it is quite alright to ask the Creator to watch over them, or others during times of hardship. That aside, "God" works in much the same way. "God" has already provided us with everything we could possibly need, yet needs nothing in return. Not even our devotion. People pray for forgiveness, when it is not he who forgives, as he does not judge. We ask for patience, when we already have it, yet fail to exercise it, most notably when we are offered limitless possibilities to do so. If we have indeed, been given everything we need, and he needs nothing in return, why, then, do we in turn (as humans) believe that we can interpret God's will, and enforce it, if that will is ultimately free will? Under what illusion of God's will do we have free will, if we choose to do something in the name of God because it is his will, and not our own? Morals are also subjective to what kind of beliefs you have, how you were raised, or how you interpret the entirety of everything you know, believe, or perceive. Humans are not inherently wicked, nor are they inherently good. Humans are survivalists, but also squishy and soft. One could argue, that because of our advances in medicine and science, we have surpassed the realm of evolution, into the realm of being a creator, although more accurately, a provider. We've begun to dabble in the science of mutations, and have been the express cause of forced evolution upon that which we decree is beneath us, often as a side effect, and to a lesser extent, as a benefit to us, rather than to all that live with us. Caitsith.Shiroi said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Come on King. We've been through this. If he actually exists, then he would exists regardless of religion, or our beliefs, or w/e. If God really exists and humans never did, he wouldn't cease to exist. He is either there or he isn't and it doesn't matter if we think he is or isnt. If we go by your way of thinking. If god exist, something created it, if something created it, something created what created it and so on infinitely. So which god do you want to believe in? Wrong. If something exists outside of the space-time continuum, which is where God would have to exist to create the Big Bang (This is where time began - There was no time before hand), then it needs no creator. Unless you exist within our space and time, you have no need for a beginning and end. It's comparing the beginning and end of a straight line and a circle. Valefor.Sehachan said: » Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » Then you must really hate sports. And yet people stick to their guns despite losing streaks or facts (stats) that say one team is better/worse than another. It's the same *** - some people are fanatical, some people stick to the facts and some people bandwagon. Asura.Alexandero said: » Caitsith.Shiroi said: » Asura.Alexandero said: » Come on King. We've been through this. If he actually exists, then he would exists regardless of religion, or our beliefs, or w/e. If God really exists and humans never did, he wouldn't cease to exist. He is either there or he isn't and it doesn't matter if we think he is or isnt. If we go by your way of thinking. If god exist, something created it, if something created it, something created what created it and so on infinitely. So which god do you want to believe in? Wrong. If something exists outside of the space-time continuum, which is where God would have to exist to create the Big Bang (This is where time began - There was no time before hand), then it needs no creator. Unless you exist within our space and time, you have no need for a beginning and end. It's comparing the beginning and end of a straight line and a circle. Is your name Giorgio Tsoukalos? You don't root for a team based on which is better(maybe children). It's usually your town, or the team that your family rooted for and you grow attached to it all the same.
Either way it has nothing to do with what I said. Quote: Apparently you fail to notice the one thing common in every religion there is: A creator is born from the mind of a man. If religion never existed, there would be no concept of God, and without a concept of God, he would cease being God and will be known as an unknown. Since the unknown cannot be known without evidence of existence, the being formally known as God would not exist because by definition of the (now nonexistent religious text) concept of God requires a defined existence which never existed. Ok, I have to stick up for Alexandero here and say you're begging the question in a real and serious way; saying God wouldn't exist without mortals to worship it is just starting from the premise that God is a work of fiction, unless you're relying on some silly D&D/Gaiman cosmology where the gods rely on human worship for power. Plenty, if not all religions suppose divine forces that exist without the consent of mortals, and some (Sikhism is awesome about this) are explicit that God is indifferent to mortal worship; the worship is for the benefit of the mortals. |
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