For Your Anti-vax Friends

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For your anti-vax friends
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-01-03 18:13:50
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What do people actually want tested? GMOs don't dose you with anything. Ecologically, we're still mainly talking about the problems associated with "traditional" farming practices.
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-03 18:17:08
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Jetackuu said: »
Bloodrose said: »
That's interesting, because the number 1 prescribed food item for a diabetic is white rice. But it also converts the fastest to glucose in the body (as do most naturally occurring sugars, such as lactose, fructose, and so on, despite some natural sugars being easier and simpler to break down)
Eh, the article I was reading could have been biased/wrong, as it was pretty anti-white rice.
Why's everything gotta be anti-white now?

Anti-white police, anti-white old people, anti-white rice...

Since when did people care about the shade spectrum so much?

But all joking aside, white rice has it's benefits, and isn't currently known to cause diabetes, but actually helps to lower high blood sugars, simply by adding a small serving to 2-3 meals a week.
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-03 18:18:39
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Cerberus.Makira said: »
Everything is an "epidemic" right now. Ebola included and we all know how fast that is spreading. *insert sarcastic tone*
Nah, the CDC has actually said that influenza deaths are at epidemic level. What gets lost in this, though, is that epidemics aren't as big as people are led to believe. There's been an epidemic of Black Plague (yes, really) in the American Southwest for a couple decades now. Infection and death rates are low, the point of the classification is more to make sure that people, particularly medical people, are aware.

Odin.Jassik said: »
the vast majority of gluten-free products are marketed to morons who'll jump on any health craze and pay top dollar for it
Because they're trying not to be fat. That's what it is every time, too. It's not motivated by actual health (the idiots would learn how to pick up a barbell once in a while, then), but purely by wanting some trendy magic bullet for the adipose tissue they may or may not actually have.

Bahamut.Ravael said: »
However, there are quite a few products that seem to have no reason to contain gluten but do anyway, as well as a number of products that used to be gluten-free but now are not.
We use lots of unusual things in food, especially pre-prepared ("processed") food. If you don't want to go through the nuisance of grating your own cheese, for instance, wheat flour is often used to prevent it binding together into a solid lump in the bag. Taco Bell got a little bit of heat a few years back when someone pointed out that they use silicon (as in, good ol' harmless sand) for exactly the same reason with their ground beef.

Sorting out what is in food, which of that matters, and which should be removed is a rough process. People loved trans-saturated margarine (for reasons I cannot fathom) 'til we finally figured out the problem with it.

Odin.Jassik said: »
There have been many studies showing some GMO's causing all kinds of problems
Not that I'm attacking you, just want to point out:

a.) Literally every crop on the planet is genetically modified to suit human consumption needs. A century ago we couldn't cultivate strawberries, but someone finally found and duplicated a mutant strain. They'd be very expensive and thoroughly seasonal otherwise.

Yes, I know the term GMO is arbitrarily applied to things developed as much in a lab as in a field, but there's no meaningful difference because...

b.) Most crops have caused some kind of problem at one time or another, especially all the exo-crops we introduce from around the world. With the possible exception of crops that cannot reproduce without human intervention (maize and bananas, for instance), almost any successful transplant tends to disrupt local ecology until something learns to predate upon it.

People imagine that splicing an exogeneous gene into a tomato is somehow different than culling all but the mutants. Arbitrarily adding code to a plant's genome usually just results in something non-viable, which is why that's not what is being done.
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-03 18:20:12
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Bloodrose said: »
(as do most naturally occurring sugars, such as lactose, fructose, and so on, despite some natural sugars being easier and simpler to break down)
Everything can be converted into sugar. The brain is a greedy sumbitch and will torch fat and protein to create glucose. Just a fun fact, mind you.
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-03 18:22:30
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Bloodrose said: »
(as do most naturally occurring sugars, such as lactose, fructose, and so on, despite some natural sugars being easier and simpler to break down)
Everything can be converted into sugar. The brain is a greedy sumbitch and will torch fat and protein to create glucose. Just a fun fact, mind you.
More proof that my doctor's an idiot.

Oddly enough, some of the smartest people on the planet are sugar fiends - be it natural or processed, since the brain pretty much runs off of oxygen and sugar, as well as certain healthy fatty acids.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-01-03 18:25:05
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Jetackuu said: »
wormfeeder said: »
Yeah what's wrong with being anti-gmo
It's moronic.

There have been many studies showing some GMO's causing all kinds of problems, but GMO's have also made a large impact in yields and decreased the chances of losing crops. I think the bigger issue than whether a product is a GMO or not is what the product is. I think that there should be more comprehensive testing before GMO's are allowed to be sold. They are, in a sense, worth the same scrutiny as pharmaceuticals.

That's more of an issue of how it was done, and what testing was done to verify it's safe, than a testament to gmos as a whole though.

Yeah, that was my point. Anti-GMO groups have plenty of legitimate gripes, I'd count myself among them under the current level of oversight. But, that's not to say that GMO's done correctly and safely don't offer massive benefits.

Are we talking about pesticide toxicity, or direct "this GM food product is causally linked to this human affliction"?

Former, yawn; latter, citation please.

Mostly toxicity from pesticides that are used on GMO's specifically designed to resist them. You can yawn all you want, I'm not arguing against GMO's, I want to minimize the amount of pesticides that end up in our foods, and resistant GMO's are shown to absorb far more potentially hazardous chemicals than their non-GMO counterparts. I'd like to see standards for certain chemicals established and some form of testing and oversight to ensure that the minimal amount of pesticides and chemical fertilizer make it to the grocery store.

Edit: I'm not talking specifically about GMO's, either.

As for the GMO's themselves, I've found a handful of studies showing nutritional complications with certain GMO products, but they are small samples, and, admittedly easy to tear apart. I doubt further study will show any causal relationship like the initial ones claiming all kinds of genetic defects in farm animals, that were quickly debunked.
 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2015-01-03 18:25:25
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Odin.Jassik said: »
I'm well aware of how prolific gluten based ingredients are, they're used as binders and the base for artificial flavorings off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many more. I was talking about the raw meat and butter types. Even things like bagged salad mixes and fresh fruit. They might as well say they're gasoline free. Thankfully, most major manufacturers as well as support foundations have comprehensive lists of what products are gluten free.

I was quite sad to find out Soy Sauce has gluten in it. I so enjoyed chinese food.
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-03 18:26:37
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Bloodrose said: »
More proof that my doctor's an idiot.
Well, I'm not sure that your doctor is an idiot. He might be. But the point I was alluding to is just that our brain will find a way to survive as long as you're eating something with calories. Diabetes is an insulin deficiency that may be aggravated or caused by excessive intake of simple carbohydrates, but what often gets forgotten is that it isn't as simple as that.

Glucose produced by the body from converting fat or muscle stores (or ingested fat and protein) shouldn't trigger a diabetic response, though.
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2015-01-03 18:27:45
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If it makes you feel better, he's probably not an idiot- just too arrogant or lazy to have an actual conversation with you. The short-n-sweet answers are generally easier to hand out to your patient, but they're also notably more prone to misinterpretation(or the outright skipping if crucial details)
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By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 18:28:05
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I still of am the mind that we one day will figure out a way to grow meat, without brains.

Mmm, going to go plant this field of bacon.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-01-03 18:28:49
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Jetackuu said: »
Mmm, going to go plant this field of bacon.
I'll have a lot of this in my garden!!
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-03 18:29:18
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Well, I haven't had any specific symptons to diabetes. And I was tested thoroughly, several times.

I was actually sent to the local Diabetic Research Center, and saw 3 diabetic specialists. All of which agreed, I didn't have it according to the various results.

Apparently I was the pinnacle of health as far as those tests were concerned, though I've displayed signs of Fibro Myalgia since I was 13.
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2015-01-03 18:29:50
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Jetackuu said: »
wormfeeder said: »
Yeah what's wrong with being anti-gmo
It's moronic.

There have been many studies showing some GMO's causing all kinds of problems, but GMO's have also made a large impact in yields and decreased the chances of losing crops. I think the bigger issue than whether a product is a GMO or not is what the product is. I think that there should be more comprehensive testing before GMO's are allowed to be sold. They are, in a sense, worth the same scrutiny as pharmaceuticals.

That's more of an issue of how it was done, and what testing was done to verify it's safe, than a testament to gmos as a whole though.

Yeah, that was my point. Anti-GMO groups have plenty of legitimate gripes, I'd count myself among them under the current level of oversight. But, that's not to say that GMO's done correctly and safely don't offer massive benefits.

Are we talking about pesticide toxicity, or direct "this GM food product is causally linked to this human affliction"?

Former, yawn; latter, citation please.

Mostly toxicity from pesticides that are used on GMO's specifically designed to resist them. You can yawn all you want, I'm not arguing against GMO's, I want to minimize the amount of pesticides that end up in our foods, and resistant GMO's are shown to absorb far more potentially hazardous chemicals than their non-GMO counterparts. I'd like to see standards for certain chemicals established and some form of testing and oversight to ensure that the minimal amount of pesticides and chemical fertilizer make it to the grocery store.

Edit: I'm not talking specifically about GMO's, either.

As for the GMO's themselves, I've found a handful of studies showing nutritional complications with certain GMO products, but they are small samples, and, admittedly easy to tear apart. I doubt further study will show any causal relationship like the initial ones claiming all kinds of genetic defects in farm animals, that were quickly debunked.

I don't yawn because GM pesticides and herbicides(or their "non-GM" counterparts) aren't a problem, I yawn because they have nothing to do with GM foods. The two are conflated entirely too often.
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By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 18:30:26
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Mmm, going to go plant this field of bacon.
I'll have a lot of this in my garden!!



I'm going to die from food, I know it now.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-03 18:31:35
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Jetackuu said: »
I still of am the mind that we one day will figure out a way to grow meat, without brains.
Scientists have been working on this for a long time.

Thing is, we can't really grow living muscle without a brain to direct it. Cell nuclei simply can't handle the job, which is why polycellular organisms developed specialized tissues. But we may eventually be able to essentially 3D print food, which is presumably how things like a Star Trek replicator work.

What I wouldn't be shocked by, given another century or two, is developing protein-laden plants that taste like a side of beef. Bacon is a little more complicated since it is cured, but we cure plenty of plants and have done for millennia, so time will tell.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-01-03 18:32:24
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Jetackuu said: »
wormfeeder said: »
Yeah what's wrong with being anti-gmo
It's moronic.

There have been many studies showing some GMO's causing all kinds of problems, but GMO's have also made a large impact in yields and decreased the chances of losing crops. I think the bigger issue than whether a product is a GMO or not is what the product is. I think that there should be more comprehensive testing before GMO's are allowed to be sold. They are, in a sense, worth the same scrutiny as pharmaceuticals.

That's more of an issue of how it was done, and what testing was done to verify it's safe, than a testament to gmos as a whole though.

Yeah, that was my point. Anti-GMO groups have plenty of legitimate gripes, I'd count myself among them under the current level of oversight. But, that's not to say that GMO's done correctly and safely don't offer massive benefits.

Are we talking about pesticide toxicity, or direct "this GM food product is causally linked to this human affliction"?

Former, yawn; latter, citation please.

Mostly toxicity from pesticides that are used on GMO's specifically designed to resist them. You can yawn all you want, I'm not arguing against GMO's, I want to minimize the amount of pesticides that end up in our foods, and resistant GMO's are shown to absorb far more potentially hazardous chemicals than their non-GMO counterparts. I'd like to see standards for certain chemicals established and some form of testing and oversight to ensure that the minimal amount of pesticides and chemical fertilizer make it to the grocery store.

Edit: I'm not talking specifically about GMO's, either.

As for the GMO's themselves, I've found a handful of studies showing nutritional complications with certain GMO products, but they are small samples, and, admittedly easy to tear apart. I doubt further study will show any causal relationship like the initial ones claiming all kinds of genetic defects in farm animals, that were quickly debunked.

I don't yawn because pesticides and herbicides aren't a problem, I yawn because they have nothing to do with GM foods. The two are conflated entirely too often.

Agreed, but more potent pesticides are able to be used on specifically resistant GMO's that would kill even non-resistant GMO's. The two are related, and I'd expect any oversight to apply equally to all consumer food products.
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By wormfeeder 2015-01-03 18:32:35
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Gluten is a protein. As far as I have read about it gluten is formed by the way flour is processed into dough. So unless it is a wheat based product you won't have gluten.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-01-03 18:33:04
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That's actually something I want. The texture of veggies bothers me A LOT, I can't stand to eat them not so much for the taste but for the texture.
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By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 18:33:49
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I imagined it would take a rather advanced computer, and basically grow a bunch of it hooked to said computer, I think it was a dream awhile back, something I hadn't thought of in a few years.

I haven't watched much Trek, but I think I can infer.

MMM bacon.
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-03 18:34:23
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All you need to know about anything, is BACON!
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-03 18:34:26
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wormfeeder said: »
Gluten is a protein. As far as I have read about it gluten is formed by the way flour is processed into dough. So unless it is a wheat based product you won't have gluten.
Gliadin and glutinin, two proteins found in wheat, combine to form gluten in the presence of water. But wheat gets used in a LOT of products, so it's not as simple as avoiding bread.
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By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 18:34:31
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
That's actually something I want. The texture of veggies bothers me A LOT, I can't stand to eat them not so much for the taste but for the texture.
I can't stand the texture of a lot of things I'd otherwise like.

But for the most part veggies just don't do it for me, taste wise.

I blame growing up on sugars, and other food that's artificially made to taste better all of the time, hell I have to force myself to drink water anymore.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-01-03 18:35:04
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What if aliens exist but are afraid to come here cause they smell and taste like bacon?
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-01-03 18:35:13
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wormfeeder said: »
Gluten is a protein. As far as I have read about it gluten is formed by the way flour is processed into dough. So unless it is a wheat based product you won't have gluten.

Lots of products contain ingredients that are either derived from gluten or simply contain it. As I said before, there are plenty of binders and artificial flavors that utilize gluten or gluten derivatives. Something like a rice cake could contain gluten, even though it's a rice product and rice doesn't contain gluten.
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-03 18:35:46
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Solution: Wrap your veggies in strips of bacon, beer batter, and deep fry the mother ***!
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-03 18:36:35
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Something like a rice cake could contain gluten, even though it's a rice product and rice doesn't contain gluten.
And yet glutinous rice contains no gluten. So even language can betray you.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-01-03 18:36:52
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Jetackuu said: »
I have to force myself to drink water anymore.
Not me, I love water. I'm one of those crazies that actually drink as much as doctors say you should just cause I enjoy it. But it has to be cold, if it's not cold I die.
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By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 18:38:33
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It's odd, as when I was a teenager I'd drink plenty of water.

Interestingly enough the city water was contributing to my heartburn, and I wasn't aware of what it was at the time...

I need to start drinking more, kidney stones suck.
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By wormfeeder 2015-01-03 18:38:48
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
wormfeeder said: »
Gluten is a protein. As far as I have read about it gluten is formed by the way flour is processed into dough. So unless it is a wheat based product you won't have gluten.
Gliadin and glutinin, two proteins found in wheat, combine to form gluten in the presence of water. But wheat gets used in a LOT of products, so it's not as simple as avoiding bread.
This is why I learned how to cook real food, not processed frozen Crap. Well frozen veggies are good. But that's it.
Now I still love my frozen stouffers lasagna and a couple other frozen foods I just don't make habits of them
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By Bloodrose 2015-01-03 18:38:54
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The human body actually processes warm to hot water better than cold.

It works as a coolant, but hot water can bring the human body to a safer internal temperature better than cold.

But, cold water feels better psychologically and tastes crisper and cleaner.
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