The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On

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The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On
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 Asura.Pusheen
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By Asura.Pusheen 2019-03-19 22:12:54
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Asura.Cambion said: »
Edit: I guess I should have stated the purpose, I was kind of trying to build a lazy all-in-one super tank set.

Ok, so just for the sake of discussion/experimentation

ItemSet 365678

Senuna = 10PDT (Probably with 20Eva/MEva + 10 MEva and will probably be my 2for1 emnity cape)

Leaves this set at only 45% PDT.
Ahosi Leggings instead of Turms would get another 4PDT and put it at 49%, not sure how to weigh that exchange.

It's all the NQ since this is just for a test currently but:
50 MDT
45 PDT
29 MDB
581 MEVA
Only 2213 HP without MoonXX Cape.
1131 DEF
1199 Acc
1033 Att

*Zero Buffs

Comparison to my previous set for later:
ItemSet 365703
50MDT
50PDT
26 MDB
396 MEVA
2542 HP w/Moonbeam Cape
1177 DEF
1162 Acc
1267 Att

Or...
ItemSet 365704
26DT + Shell = 50 MDT
+ 10PDT Senuna (20acc/att, 10DA, 20Dex)
+ 7 PDT Herc Gloves (5PDT Aug)
+ 6 PDT Horos Body
= 49 PDT

25 MDB
350 MEVA
1926 HP
1099 DEF
1287 Att

I guess the question is just, how much does MEVA really mean?

Note to self: Yamarang is another 15 MEVA

Test1: UNM Sov Behe
No Trust, No Food, No Buffs of any kind. Engage, Fan Dance, Step > Reverse for TP to stay alive. Stood there for the full 15 minutes and ate as many Meteors as I could.

Turms = 1414 Dmg Taken from Meteor (864 Resist one time, out of the 23 times I ate it.

Dnc DT = 1441 Dmg Taken from Meteor (No resists) Small sample.

Test2: Shell5 from Cheukki
1053 Dmg Taken from Meteor (8 times) + 1 resist for 842.


This is what I tank in on DNC MH Terp

ItemSet 360824

Cape: DEX30 Acc20/Att20 STP10 PDT-10
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By Autocast 2019-03-19 23:52:17
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How big a deal is Terp over other rema options? (I know ***is situational in this game but in general)

Running a char through the mythic process and while I don't intend to finish it right away I figure I may as well get a headstart on another char as I may as well bring them through the quest/currency farm together.

As I was planning to do dancer on the character in question, or leaning twards that, I was thinking of maybe starting the terp quest, right now its between terp for dnc or tizona for blu, so again just curious how good terp is for dancer, in general.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-03-20 02:26:02
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Terp is nice, altough I feel it was a bigger deal before the Presto patch.
It still feels unique (and looks hot!) but I'm not sure it's miles ahead of other options. Actually you need R15 for Terps to shine anyway, at pre-augs rank I think other options like Aeneas MH / Twash OH are better.

If you don't want to put too much effort in it, your best choice will probably be Tauret.
More detailed tests are needed for it but I feel Tauret is pretty powerful, wouldn't be surprised to actually see it above certain REMA.
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 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-03-20 03:13:30
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Ever since Tauret, and Presto got updated, the gap between Terpsichore and weapons became smaller in main hand, not saying it made Terpsichore less attractive, and yes, its still on top in most relevant content outside Twashtar/Cento combo at R15.

When it comes to solo situations and lack/loss of buffs during fights or you're staying in DT set for some reason, its AM3 picks up the pace quite nicely. I'm not planning on listing all possibilities to why you should invest in one, because as I've mentioned before, the gap is very small between available options, and there is no solid incentive to its superiority at the moment over Twashtar or Tauret.

Tauret did indeed bridge the gap in solo situations and lack of buffs, because of how it operates in the window between [0-1k] TP.

The real question becomes, are you willing to grind all the way to get it? or you're just okay with making something really quickly and call it a day? be that Tauret or even Aeneas.
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-03-23 08:08:34
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After obtaining Tauret, went on and tested it with Twashtar sub, target was apex bats.

Critical Hit Rate went from 84%-51.5% between 0-1K TP in a sample of 1000 hit.

This made the AVG Critical Hit Rate in this window 67.75%!
dDEX was capped it seems because I only had Feather Step 10/10 and, with 10/10 I should've had 5+14% + 33.75 + [4%uncapped dDEX]= 56.7% instead of 67.75% AVG

This means with Rouge Roll and cape we can almost reach 100% Crtical Cap in the same window [0-1000] TP.
67.75%+~20%+10=97.75%

This should be interesting, since the moment you reach the 1K you will have 81.5% critical rate for Evisceration if you added Rouge Roll, making your AVG Evisceration close to 35-40k in capped situations.
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By SimonSes 2019-03-23 12:00:43
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You made a small mistake there Katriina. You took avg from 84%-51.5% and then took it further for calculations, but you cant really do that.

Because when you add +30% to you max and min crit rate, your max will actually cap at 100%. Using just previous avg and adding 30% you basically got avg from 114%-81.5%, which obviously won't be the case. It will be avg from 100%-81.5%, so 90.75%, not 97.75%. Small mistake, but still worth to fix now, so it won't be replicated in future calculations, which you might try to do.
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 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-03-23 12:08:01
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Thanks for that, then the real percentage would be 51.5%+30%=81.5% the moment you're about to Evisceration~ and will not count on AVG.
 Asura.Lunafreya
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By Asura.Lunafreya 2019-03-23 12:15:56
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Terp for life, IMO.
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By SimonSes 2019-03-23 12:24:25
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Asura.Lunafreya said: »
Terp for life, IMO.

Even when Tauret can be close with damage, as a career DNC I would make Terpsi just for it's amazing value in hybrid/dt sets.
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 Asura.Lunafreya
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By Asura.Lunafreya 2019-03-23 12:34:10
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It’s just so good. Highly recommend to anyone serious about DNC.

I knew I made the right decision with Terp during a Gin run when our tank and healer went down and I was able to tank/dd/keep myself alive for the last 30%. I know we talk a lot about max parsing and such on these forums but for actual real situations Terp has been so reliable. I find that perfect buff situations and such are more rare than most people think.
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 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-03-23 14:26:04
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Honestly, I don't know why you keep insisting on perfect buffs being rare when the whole premise is theoretical.

A weapon was designed by SE, we need to see its maximum potential, its as simple as that.

In case you didn't notice, Terpsichore will still beat Tauret in all scenarios by at least 10% and in extreme situations the gap will be as close as 2-3%, and that's not including SC potential for Tauret, Twashtar will be on top regardless in pure Zerg, end of story.
No one is advocating for anything, it's just fun to discover potentials, especially for new/returning players.
 Asura.Splendid
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By Asura.Splendid 2019-03-23 14:50:57
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Asura.Lunafreya said: »
It’s just so good. Highly recommend to anyone serious about DNC.

I knew I made the right decision with Terp during a Gin run when our tank and healer went down and I was able to tank/dd/keep myself alive for the last 30%. I know we talk a lot about max parsing and such on these forums but for actual real situations Terp has been so reliable. I find that perfect buff situations and such are more rare than most people think.

Right. There. With. You.
 Asura.Lunafreya
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By Asura.Lunafreya 2019-03-23 18:38:06
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Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Honestly, I don't know why you keep insisting on perfect buffs being rare when the whole premise is theoretical.

A weapon was designed by SE, we need to see its maximum potential, its as simple as that.

In case you didn't notice, Terpsichore will still beat Tauret in all scenarios by at least 10% and in extreme situations the gap will be as close as 2-3%, and that's not including SC potential for Tauret, Twashtar will be on top regardless in pure Zerg, end of story.
No one is advocating for anything, it's just fun to discover potentials, especially for new/returning players.

Huh? When did I insist that? xD

I’m just saying a lot of players make decisions based on how weapons perform in the perfect ideal scenarios, and then find themselves in scenarios unlike that decently often.

Of course we should experiment with and calculate the maximum potential of every weapon. I certainly appreciate all the work you do for the DNC community!
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By eliroo 2019-03-24 16:08:58
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I just read the community guide on BG wiki. What makes Horos Body better than Turms +1 especially during Terp AM3?
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-03-25 04:44:50
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It was discussed before, the general idea is to have a well rounded TP set in higher content were sometimes you need that extra PDT, Amnesia Resist or more Attk during fight.

You can still use Turms+1 though, it’s not set in stone.
However, some people might argue the benefit of TP overflow for Terpsichore Dancers spamming PK vs Rudra Dancers and how it’s irrelevant with Samurai Roll. That added 4TA from Horos +3 means extra hits which translates into “more” white DMG with AM3 up, rendering full STP set unattractive.

Personally, I think Horos+3 got more incentives to TP in for what it provides over Turms+1 for its price value.

Even then, the margin between Terpsichore TP set and Twashtar TP set is 10DA only from cape [I personally switched for STP cape on Twashtar for more TP Overflow]
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By Zeota 2019-03-25 10:02:41
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Pretty much why I use my sTP cape whether I'm main handing terp or twash.
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By Rikimarueye 2019-03-26 15:16:45
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Hey yall :>

I've been kinda stuck in terms of how to take my DNC to the next level. I am looking to increase my overall WSavg on higher end content like dynamu or omen or the possible empy armor content.
The way I gear is to future proof the job and roll with high ACC and a little less buff dependant since I am never ATT cap in the PTs I am in. So, let's get to the meat and potatoes!

This is the base rudra unstacked:
ItemSet 365837

Augments:
Herc helm: 15DEX/23ACC/23ATT/4%WSD
Cape: 30DEX/20ACC/20ATT/10WSD
Feet: Path D
Neck: Fully upgraded

This is the items that replace the base set when stacked:

ItemSet 365838
Augments:
Feet: 10DEX/18ACC/14ATT/4%Crit.DMG

Any help would be appreciated!
Some question I have to keep in mind are:
Karieyh Ring +1 vs Regal?
Is there no upgrade from Grunfeld Rope?
Alternatives to lustratio +1 since it has no defensive values?
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By Zeota 2019-03-26 15:47:53
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I'd go with WSD herc feet, and shoot for WSD herc body for unstacked if you can get your hands on one.
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 Asura.Lunafreya
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By Asura.Lunafreya 2019-03-26 22:31:33
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Edit: answered my own question.
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-03-30 01:09:31
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Rikimarueye said: »
The way I gear is to future proof the job and roll with high ACC and a little less buff dependant since I am never ATT cap in the PTs I am in.

Could you explain this part more? because I doubt using Cento is beneficial here; since its used in pure zerg/high buff situations.
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By Rikimarueye 2019-03-30 10:28:08
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I might be doing it wrong but I was averaging 44k rudras in dynamu with it on wave 1 and 2 dynamu with very little difficulty. Particularly, on the NMs I'd pull ahead on parse as shown.


image hosting

I do welcome constructive criticism ^^ If I can make my DNC better that would mean the world to me!

My LS normally doesn't go full buff with swapping BRDs and CORs when we are just farming either. This also includes that our BRD was playing FFOO and letting songs drop occasionally.
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By Asura.Highwynn 2019-04-02 10:13:55
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New dnc here, when do you use striking VS climactic VS ternary?
 Asura.Cambion
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By Asura.Cambion 2019-04-02 10:59:57
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Asura.Highwynn said: »
New dnc here, when do you use striking VS climactic VS ternary?

I think it might be different if you have Terp.
I don't have terp, so I never use Striking or Ternary.

2k TP, Sekkanoki, Climactic, Rudra, Rudra, Reverse Flourish, Rudra.

Then just Climactic Rudra > Reverse > Rudra on cool down pretty much.

*There are 3 part skill chains that can make Sekkanoki more valuable if you're solo and people won't ruin them. Evis > Rudra > Rudra for example.
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-04-09 23:46:51
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It's wonderful to play with other Dancers, fights are way more interesting, especially when you know for a fact now how diverse our roles can be.

Kuki managed to record this video on VD this month, showcasing just that:

YouTube Video Placeholder


Some notes:

  • Kuki used Twashtar/Tauret combo for tanking and stayed in hybrid MEVA set most of the fight, especially post 50%.


  • I used Tauret/Twashtar combo to avoid stealing Kuki's role and focus on opening the skillchain cycle.


  • SAM used Shining One obviously.


  • Rudra Strom > Impulse Drive > Rudra Strom was the go to cycle.


  • Tauret is a force to be reckoned with, and I can safely rank it next to other EMA.


  • At the beginning we were using Terpsichore/Twashtar, but then opted for more white damage to control enmity on Kuki.



Hoping this will encourage players to pair-up with other dancers!
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 Asura.Lunafreya
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By Asura.Lunafreya 2019-04-10 08:26:15
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Nice job Kat and Kuki! I love seeing stuff like that.

Asura.Cambion said: »
Asura.Highwynn said: »
New dnc here, when do you use striking VS climactic VS ternary?

I think it might be different if you have Terp.
I don't have terp, so I never use Striking or Ternary.

2k TP, Sekkanoki, Climactic, Rudra, Rudra, Reverse Flourish, Rudra.

Then just Climactic Rudra > Reverse > Rudra on cool down pretty much.

*There are 3 part skill chains that can make Sekkanoki more valuable if you're solo and people won't ruin them. Evis > Rudra > Rudra for example.


I rarely use Ternary/Striking with Terp but maybe I am doing it wrong. Clim Rudra is too powerful to not use. If solo I do a Evis > PK > Clim Rudra 3 step, if in a zerg situation I just Clim Rudra Reverse Rudra for big #s.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2019-04-10 09:19:12
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Yeah, it's not just you. Saying something as bold and definitive as "Striking and Ternary are worthless when compared to Climactic so feel free to forget they exist" is, I know, leaving myself wide open to getting Well Actuallied, but I'm willing to do it if it manages to get someone to finally explain:

1) what the particular applications of Striking and Ternary actually are, and more importantly,

2) the situations in which those applications could come anywhere close to being competitive with the raw power of Climactic.

Floor's open!
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By Shiva.Flowen 2019-04-10 09:42:37
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Asura.Lunafreya said: »
Nice job Kat and Kuki! I love seeing stuff like that.

Asura.Cambion said: »
Asura.Highwynn said: »
New dnc here, when do you use striking VS climactic VS ternary?

I think it might be different if you have Terp.
I don't have terp, so I never use Striking or Ternary.

2k TP, Sekkanoki, Climactic, Rudra, Rudra, Reverse Flourish, Rudra.

Then just Climactic Rudra > Reverse > Rudra on cool down pretty much.

*There are 3 part skill chains that can make Sekkanoki more valuable if you're solo and people won't ruin them. Evis > Rudra > Rudra for example.


I rarely use Ternary/Striking with Terp but maybe I am doing it wrong. Clim Rudra is too powerful to not use. If solo I do a Evis > PK > Clim Rudra 3 step, if in a zerg situation I just Clim Rudra Reverse Rudra for big #s.

Yeah I use Terp. I still use climactic rudras > reverse > rudras whenever its off cooldown. When on cooldown you can building flourish your PKs. I never use ternary or striking
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2019-04-10 15:00:12
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These are my own opinions and you’re more than welcome to add yours

The general rule for DPS with flourishes in mind is as follows:

  • Climactic takes priority whenever it’s up over anything, and by association Rudra over any other ws.


  • Building Flourish is very critical for PK and even Rudra if your strategy revolves around multi-step with other DPS partners, provided that you use Saber Dance to boost PK, especially with the new paradigm these days when holding TP up to 2k for impulse drive is encouraged. The line between Reverse Flourish and Building Flourish becomes blurred DPS wise.


  • There are no real incentives to use Striking or Ternary Flourishes if you’re a Twashtar user, but once you switch to Terpsichore R15, both Flourishes become more attractive to use, more so for Ternary. Let’s face it though, Climactic will always be more attractive for any dancer regardless of their play style.

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By ScaevolaBahamut 2019-04-12 10:21:59
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Ternary would be somewhat more attractive (for Terps, at least) if Climactic did not charge multiple attack rounds and thus multiple weapon skills, which was more-or-less impossible before Job Points.

These Flourishes were designed in a different context, when Rudra's was not nearly as powerful and the FM cap was five so spending 5 FMs on a flourish represented a much greater commitment than it does now. Striking/Ternary could probably stand to be buffed in light of this but I don't know you could buff them to the point where I'd burn the Group 3 cooldown on them.
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By SimonSes 2019-04-12 11:21:27
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First of all they shouldnt be damage oriented. When you have 3 abilities on same cooldown, you will always use one that is the best and ignore the rest. They should change ternary and striking to utility flourishes.
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