The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On

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The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On
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 Valefor.Madranta
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By Valefor.Madranta 2018-09-16 15:50:32
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
Valefor.Madranta said: »
I did my best to add Setan (B) based on what I expect it to do. It's not perfect but I think it's more accurate than adding MA to the weapon. If Setan is mainhanded the average mainhand hits per round is multiplied by 1.5. TP gain (Rounds/WS) is calculated from a much more complicated system so I had to Jerry-rig that. Weaponskill!T531 and T1064 have those rules.
bro, just take your average hits without setan b and add 0.5 to it and you're done. i don't know why everyone is doing all these inaccurately difficult ways

I was assuming, and it appears others were as well, that it was possible for the follow-up attack to proc MA since I hadn't seen any testing. Now looking at Raetic weapons and seeing them using the same terminology, you're probably right that it's a single attack independent of other MA. I'd like to see confirmation as well as testing on Path A for WSs.

Ramuh.Austar said: »
Valefor.Madranta said: »
All 3 Etoile Gorgets with Augments are added. Physical Damage Limit is still not fully understood to my knowledge but preliminary tests indicate it multiplies the pDIF cap by (1.06, 1.08 or 1.1), so that's what they do in the spreadsheet.
it does increase the cap by that but before the +1 on crits are added.

so with max rank +2 being 10%, you get 3.25 * 1.1 + 1 for your crits instead of 4.25 * 1.1.

Thanks for the clarification. Spreadsheet has been updated with both the above points. Setan has lost about 300 DPS for Rudra's spam and 600 DPS for Climactic. Full numbers below.

Does anyone happen to know if the Flourish III CHR bonus JP category is additive or multiplicative? Right now I have it as additive. Wouldn't make a difference for Ternary or Striking (1 + .2 = 1 * 1.2) but does for Climactic.
 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2018-09-16 15:57:12
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Can anyone run with a Setan(B) in the offhand with the extra rounds just to see how strong it would be if the augments were allowed in the offhand?
 Valefor.Madranta
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By Valefor.Madranta 2018-09-16 16:52:25
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Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »
Can anyone run with a Setan(B) in the offhand with the extra rounds just to see how strong it would be if the augments were allowed in the offhand?

Terps&Setan(B)[test] /SAM Pyrrhic spam 6848.230
vs.
Terps&Twash /SAM Pyrrhic spam 6525.332

Twash&Setan(B)[test] /SAM Rudra's spam 6672.077
vs.
Twash&Centovente(TP Bonus) /SAM Rudra's spam 7071.655
Twash&Airy /WAR Rudra's spam 6451.497
Twash&Taming /SAM Rudra's spam 6136.593

It would become the best offhand by a good margin, especially considering the Accuracy, HP and Step TP -. But I don't know if it's so much better as to call it broken, at least not for DNC and THF.

I did this test in part to show the impact of reduced Etoile Gorget crit pDIF. It's only 5-10 DPS lower.
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 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2018-09-16 17:27:05
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That fits with my thoughts. I was more excited for it to be a BiS offhand while granting me the HP and subtle blow II. I didn't think the damage would be crazy high, but it would be best. That said THF will gain more than DNC from su5 offhand working because of triple attack, but then only th3 on our su5, lol.
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By Benu 2018-09-19 04:56:24
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How are you guys dealing with keeping track of your Daze timers? Thanks in advance for responses.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-09-19 06:47:59
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Benu said: »
How are you guys dealing with keeping track of your Daze timers? Thanks in advance for responses.
I don't, and it's a pain on long fights (like Wave 3 bosses).
I just take guesses.

Normally I don't fail, but still it would be cool to see a timer on screen with name of Daze, name of target and time left.
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 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2018-09-19 07:19:50
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I have had that for years... Guess I never released it
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-09-19 09:58:48
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Oh gosh, release it please! :D
 Asura.Splendid
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By Asura.Splendid 2018-09-19 10:10:00
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Oh gosh, release it please! :D

I’ll second this. Please release it. :3
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2018-09-19 10:34:28
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
Valefor.Madranta said: »
I did my best to add Setan (B) based on what I expect it to do. It's not perfect but I think it's more accurate than adding MA to the weapon. If Setan is mainhanded the average mainhand hits per round is multiplied by 1.5. TP gain (Rounds/WS) is calculated from a much more complicated system so I had to Jerry-rig that. Weaponskill!T531 and T1064 have those rules.
bro, just take your average hits without setan b and add 0.5 to it and you're done. i don't know why everyone is doing all these inaccurately difficult ways

I was actually thinking about how I would add this to the COR sheet then saw what you mentioned and thought great and did it that way but an hour later a few questions came to mind.

Can you follow up on a miss?
Is it guaranteed to land or is it capped at 99% or 95% for 2 handers? I don't think SE released any info on this and I've saw no testing.

If either of these are true then just adding to the avg is wrong.
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By SimonSes 2018-09-19 10:34:33
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Guys, huge news. WSD seems to be workign for all hits of the weaponskill. That's a huge boost to Pyrrhic Kleos.
 Asura.Splendid
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By Asura.Splendid 2018-09-19 11:16:17
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SimonSes said: »
Guys, huge news. WSD seems to be workign for all hits of the weaponskill. That's a huge boost to Pyrrhic Kleos.

Does this change how we should gear swap for PK at all?
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By SimonSes 2018-09-19 12:50:07
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Asura.Splendid said: »
SimonSes said: »
Guys, huge news. WSD seems to be workign for all hits of the weaponskill. That's a huge boost to Pyrrhic Kleos.

Does this change how we should gear swap for PK at all?

Probably slighly. We already had some WSD in bis PK set I think, but now it works for all hits. WSD cape will beat DA cape for sure tho.
 Asura.Lunafreya
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By Asura.Lunafreya 2018-09-19 12:55:30
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Isn't the WSD applies to all hits thing just a bug though?
 Asura.Splendid
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By Asura.Splendid 2018-09-19 13:20:51
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SimonSes said: »
Asura.Splendid said: »
SimonSes said: »
Guys, huge news. WSD seems to be workign for all hits of the weaponskill. That's a huge boost to Pyrrhic Kleos.

Does this change how we should gear swap for PK at all?

Probably slighly. We already had some WSD in bis PK set I think, but now it works for all hits. WSD cape will beat DA cape for sure tho.

I can’t wait to play around with this tonight. Also @Luna if it’s a bug it’s still fun to play with. If not—-RIDE THE SHOOPUFF.
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By Zeota 2018-09-19 13:28:52
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May as well strike while the proverbial metal is hot! Personally, I think WSD should've functioned that way from the beginning, but that likely has its own balancing implications.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-09-19 13:31:11
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Asura.Chiaia said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
Valefor.Madranta said: »
I did my best to add Setan (B) based on what I expect it to do. It's not perfect but I think it's more accurate than adding MA to the weapon. If Setan is mainhanded the average mainhand hits per round is multiplied by 1.5. TP gain (Rounds/WS) is calculated from a much more complicated system so I had to Jerry-rig that. Weaponskill!T531 and T1064 have those rules.
bro, just take your average hits without setan b and add 0.5 to it and you're done. i don't know why everyone is doing all these inaccurately difficult ways

I was actually thinking about how I would add this to the COR sheet then saw what you mentioned and thought great and did it that way but an hour later a few questions came to mind.

Can you follow up on a miss?
Is it guaranteed to land or is it capped at 99% or 95% for 2 handers? I don't think SE released any info on this and I've saw no testing.

If either of these are true then just adding to the avg is wrong.
its an additional swing, independent of any other form of multi attacks, caps at whatever hand it’s in. main 99% and off 95%
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-09-21 03:15:41
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Can anybody test Building Flourish? I got the feeling its WSD now transfers across all hits as well.

I guess this makes it particularly good for Evisceration.
30% Att power, X% Crit and 10% WSD across all hits should be a pretty nice boost to Evis, especially at uncapped attack.


Granted I still think Building Flourish is not worth the 10 secs cooldown (and 3 maneuvers) in the majority of situations, especially for non terps DNCs.
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By Asura.Splendid 2018-09-21 08:31:36
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I was testing Kleos by myself (with Terp) late last night in WKR. I didn’t see much of a difference in damage with Building/Striking for PK. My highest PK was 40k on Hurkan (a bird) in WSD sets (Horos +3, Maxixi +3, Fotias, Ishvara, etc). I was doing lots of 35k-40k PKs on it. I’m capable of pushing it higher, I just don’t have any Herc currently with WSD on it (I know...I need to get unlazy and get to trading stones). I’m going to replace Lustratio +1 head and feet with WSD Herc tonight and see what I can do. My Eviscerations were also shredding higher than normal in my full WSD set.

Edit: I also need to try it with Fury/Frailty up.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-09-21 18:22:27
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building flourish doesn’t give weapon skill damage
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-09-21 18:30:26
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
building flourish doesn’t give weapon skill damage
With Job Points, it does.
Unless it's something else? Job Point description reads as 20% WSD.

Now if it's a misleading description and it's actually something else or not working because bugged of course I don't know. I hardly ever use Building Flourish and I sure as hell never tested that stuff!
 Phoenix.Dabackpack
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2018-09-21 18:32:56
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Are you guys suggesting that WSD transfers across ALL HITS for ALL WS now? If this is true then it needs to be discussed outside this thread lol since it's *** HUGE
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-09-21 18:36:14
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We're not suggesting, it's exactely how things are.
It's probably a bug and it will be, probably, reverted next patch.
Nobody knows for sure though, so hard to tell.

I was just asking about the specific WSD bonus from Building Flourish, wondering if that too now transfers across all hits or if it's just a matter of the WSD stat found on gear.
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By Zeota 2018-09-21 18:39:57
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Phoenix.Dabackpack said: »
Are you guys suggesting that WSD transfers across ALL HITS for ALL WS now? If this is true then it needs to be discussed outside this thread lol since it's *** HUGE
The topic is being discussed ad nauseam here.

Sechs summed the whole thing up very succinctly.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-09-21 18:47:37
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
building flourish doesn’t give weapon skill damage
With Job Points, it does.
Unless it's something else? Job Point description reads as 20% WSD.

Now if it's a misleading description and it's actually something else or not working because bugged of course I don't know. I hardly ever use Building Flourish and I sure as hell never tested that stuff!
I honestly forgot about job points since I never use building either. I can test some time this weekend, though.
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-09-21 19:55:19
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And here I thought it was common knowledge that Building Flourish has always applied to all hits
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-09-21 20:05:56
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i knew the attack and crit did but i haven't used it since abyssea days and forgot about the job points for it.
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-09-21 20:12:41
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Siren.Kyte said: »
And here I thought it was common knowledge that Building Flourish has always applied to all hits
The basic part of Building Flourish sure, but the WSD part (which comes from JPs) I don't recall anybody ever testing about it and just assumed it applied to the first hit only like the majority of WSD-related stuff in game before the september patch.
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-09-21 20:14:26
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https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/45312/the-last-dance-ii-the-show-must-go-on/30/

Overwhelm applies to all hits as well, so there is precedent for non-gear WSD applying to all hits of a WS.
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 Leviathan.Sidra
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By Leviathan.Sidra 2018-09-21 20:58:03
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I also thought it applied to all hits even prior to the recent change.
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