Sigurd's Descendants: The Art Of Dragon Slaying.

That's a valid complaint, but i was comparing the merited and Empyrean WSs.

I'm somewhat curious as to how you managed to get those results. The only way I can see Gungnir pulling ahead of Trish is by uncapping Trish's acc.

And yes, please buff the ***outta Drakes.

Stardiver does scale like Resolution does (for when it counts), the issue is that DRG isn't on HQ Argosy gear. I've used a blurred lance to do 30K+ Star Divers with the exact same gear that I use for Resolution. Drakes and CT are both weaker but SD is one of the strongest WS's in the game. Imagine using SD with a set like this

ItemSet 342760

Yeah this is true. SD is a fantastic WS hampered primarily by DRGs gear and the fact that we get ***like the recent dev explanation for Regal Gloves ("DRGs have enough ACC thanks to ACC trait please look forward to literally everyone else but you have STR40 hands and rubbing their *** on your face")

Also stuff like not having Berserk or LR in most reasonable scenarios, or our own Warcry, etc etc.

I mean, gear has something to do with it, but the weaponskills themselves aren't that particularly close.

Stardiver:
1000 TP - 3.8 fTP
2000 TP - 5.8 fTP
3000 TP - 7.8 fTP

Resolution:
1000 TP - 4.59375 fTP (17.3% Stronger)
2000 TP - 8.5 fTP (31.8% Stronger)
3000 TP - 12.25 fTP (36.4% Stronger)

To counter though, Resolution has a built in -15% attack penalty while SD doesn't have any, also DRG gets an Aeonic with TP Bonus +500 while only RUN gets an Aeonic GS and RUN suffers from an even worse position then DRG does. DRG's wyvern also gives DRG ridiculous bonus's. DRG with Aeonic has the same fTP with SD that a WAR has with Rag on Reso. The crazy ***you see great WAR's pulling off involve using Savagry 5/5 + Relic which gives Warcry a +700 TP Bonus effect for 60s to everyone in the party (including the DRG). This is some Schwartz level ***for group damage output, when that wears they can provide a +40% Crit Hit Rate boost for another 60s, which is where DRG might be able to take advantage of DB though not quite sure how it would stack up.

Looking at it, SAM/Miser/WAR rolls and a God-Tier theoretical DM augmented Valorous Set.

Hadn't looked under other tabs last night. But basically the TP gain was so obscene that Trishula's TP Bonus and STP were completely worthless and were edged out by 1 base damage and relic ODD procs.

While this is true, it's only true if you're in party with the WAR and not stuck at the kids table cuz you came on DRG :^)

All joking aside, that is kind of the point though, even if after Aeonic, wyvern buffs, and the rest bringing DRG ~= WAR with Rag, you then still have the Warcry and BR buffs which you control, not dependent on other people like DRG will be. Also, even with DRGs wyvern the only effective buffs that matter for a lot of scenarios are the +DA and it still brings it to a level much lower than WAR. ATT+40% is great if you aren't capped on ATT, but when are you not capped on ATT outside of lowman?

It's much more dramatic when you factor in gorget/belt which you really should be

Ahh, so basically a situation that's never going to actually happen.

Hey, people are willing to drop hundreds of millions of gil on HQ abjurations. I don't see any reason why the same amount can't go into DM augments.

Barring incredible steaks of luck, and depending on what exact augments you were using, it'd probably be more like billions of gil.

Bruh are you talking ***about my MACC7 Pet: VIT3 Valorous DM augs ? ? ? ?

I'm just saying it's possible. Not that people can or should shoot for it over other upgrades first.

On that subject, can dark matter augments go higher than WSDMG10%?

By no means was I saying Stardiver is a bad WS. It just isn't good enough to compete with outliers that great sword users get to spam.

I assure you I've been allowed to bring DRG to the most"relevant/difficult" content under the highest buffed situations and consistently lose to war/Sam/drk by 4-8% on the parse.

The gap is even larger if MS is in the equation, even with the piercing bonus(Teles) or dragon bonuses(Kouryu).

I was responding to Saevel's comment about lacking Argosy +1 being the biggest hang up, as opposed to the WSs themselves.

Not that I've seen.

thank u , i always wonder how drg gear for resolution..

SD
0.75 / 1.25 / 1.75

Fotia +0.20
Moonshade +0.125 fTP
Aeonic +0.25 fTP

1.325 at 1K fTP for 5.3 fTP

Reso is 1.11 at 1K fTP for 5.55 fTP -15% attack

If we're going to compare weapons we need to compare the proper weapons.

The really big difference happens past 2k fTP but why on earth are you such a shitty DD that your watching youtube instead of your monitor.

SD with aeonic has Darkness properties and Polearm has much better SC potential then Great Sword. Seriously GS sucks *** for doing SC's, so much that I've been using Chango over Rag lately.

Each weapon / weapon skill combination has a specific purpose, WAR/DRK Rag + Reso is for pure DPS vomit in a very short time. Virtually nobody is going to win that fight against them because they are designed for it. Polearm is the second strongest Weapon Type in the game as it has a Spammable high fTP / high stat WS along with other high damage WS's to form multi-step SC's around. The "problem" isn't with the WS, it's with the gear people are using for that WS. WS's like Resolution and Stardiver require a ton of STR, Attack, Accuracy and Multi-Attack to scale to silly high damage. WAR's and DRK's have a set practically purpose built for that even if it's a tad expensive, DRG's need to play the augment game with Valorous and hope to get STR/Atk/Acc/DA pieces.


I'm not lying (can ask Rua) when I say I've pulled out my Blurred Lance and wrecked ***using Stardiver on WAR with the exact same gear I use for my Resolution. Even decided to pop Warcry and do Stardiver -> Sonic Thrust -> Stardiver for a 60K darkness after a closing 30K SD. If I can do that with a DMG 267 lance, you guys should be doing really crazy ***with your DMG 345 Aeonics. Hell you guys can do Stardiver -> Sonic Thrust -> Stardiver -> Stardiver for a four step Umbra that does crazy damage which will greatly be in excess of anything I can pull with Great Sword. I've started using Chango precisely because King's Justice -> Steel Cyclone -> Upheaval -> King's Justice -> Upheaval for silly Light -> Radiance numbers. If working with another DD you can coordinate your WS's to produce similar effects. Good example is me and BloodLusty (miss you bro) doing Chango WAR + Rag DRK coordinated WS's for King's Justice -> Torcleaver -> Upheaval -> Resolution -> Upheaval.

Sorry for longish post but wanted to explain there is A LOT more to dealing damage then spamming a single WS over and over again. Some fights do indeed boil down to that because SC's aren't a good idea for whatever reason, but the majority of content it's in your best interest to coordinate a multi-step SC for silly damage. I've had fights where the SC was the best damn DD in our group.

I agree mostly, sadly this is the meta game we play in though, where just spamming your strongest WS gets the job done the quickest and easiest usually. I wish more co-ordination were required in some fights to make skillchaining more of a relevant mechanic.

I also agree Argosy+1 is amzing, and DRG can put up decent numbers,but your justification of an attack penalty is nearly irrelevant in properly buffed situations. Being able to skillchain doesn't change the fact that the polearm WSs i mentioned are inferior. I love playing WAR and DRK too, i don't wish for them to be nerfed by any means. And honestly i wish they'd fix H2H before they look at polearm(different discussion for different thread i know).

The other side of the coin is that i dont expect to win the parse, i play DRG because its my favorite job and i enjoy playing it. It gets the job done, and thats the most important thing at the end of the day.

One thing to keep in mind is that even if the per weaponskill damage is a bit lower a drg does a higher volume of weaponskills than anyone due to jumps, the highest rate of conserve tp in the game and the tp bank that is spiritlink.

I dont think there is much of an in game dps difference between equally level of pimpness drg and war, except in a sp burst situation where drg cant keep up with mighty strikes and its massive impact on Resos.

Sadly, there is. Spirit Link is used to level up your wyvern pretty much on cooldown. So that doesnt really count >< Jumps are the biggest thing in our favor, but properly buffed it isn't that big of advantage.

This isn't strictly true in many of the situations where you'd be comparing yourself to Rag WARs and stuff. I just scribbled this out on the side of some paper and rounded a lot of stuff so please someone give more accurate #s if you care to.

* JA delay is 1s of inaction + 1s of no autoattack.
* Capped delay with Trish should be 98.4 which is ~1.64 sec/swing
* Assume 11 Crooked SAM roll (cuz zerg or whatever) and gear to 3-hit and you get roughly 1.28 attack rounds / WS - this is 2.045 sec/WS assuming the gear I used on previous page for multiattack
* Assume 11 miser's roll and (and I didn't actually calc. here because I couldn't be bothered to look at exact TP/swing) and you reduce it into the 1.x sec/WS
* Fighter's further reduces that

Jump/High Jump should still be viable in most situations assuming you can be 100% sure that it will fill your TP, but with wyvern accuracy and TP gain in such scenarios it should be a DPS loss to use spirit link in most situations.

There is also the issue if you are fighting anything that spams AOEs. DRG's Damage is going to suffer if your wyvern dies. Mainly in Omen. Ideally you would call wyvern in Reisen and pop a super revitalizer so you can use it again if you wyvern dies.

Kyou for example gets all spammy with meteor.

I'm sorta wondering if it's worth capping spirit link under merits.

In actual play they are very similar, it really just depends on your content and how your group is handling it. Most of these guys are just watching Rag WAR doing zerg using MS Warcry, which is kinda unfair since the WC buff is to everyone but the MS is only up once every 45m. It really does come down to gear differences, Polearm is one of the strongest weapon types in the game and asking it to be buffed would be the same as BLU's asking CDC to be buffed cause WAR's outparsing them. H2H, Scythe, Greataxe and Katana are all far more in need of a buff then Pole Arm. Once the SC properties and the unique Legendary weapons are taken into account Polearm ends up on even ground as Great Sword. These folks are comparing the weakest DRG zerg weapon to the strongest WAR zerg weapon and expecting it to be a fair outcome.

If anyone got the impression I was calling DRG bad, that wasn't my intent. Just pointing out that, as far as fTP and number of attacks is concerned, Resolution is definitely the superior weaponskill to Stardiver. And it is a bigger impact on our damage than HQ Argosy.

In a group set up, DRG is an absolute monster for skill chaining with damn near every other jobs best weapon skills.

This x1000, thats all. nobody said DRG was weak, nobody asked for a buff. All i said was that i wished the WS were more similar to the greatsword. Im not watching any youtube videos, and im speaking in terms of both MS zerg and outside of it.

Regarding Argosy and Stardiver. I played with it on Warrior and even with a Blurred Lance the damage was still pretty nice. This was on the piercing weak Roc in Reisenjima/Hanbi in Escha Sky though.

It's even nice with Mighty Strikes and Boii Feet+1

For the record, I'm definitely still asking for a Drakesbane buff. lol.