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Merit Weaponskill 2014
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 585
By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2014-09-05 17:23:14
I don't have an apoc and I can tank anything in delve just fine as drk!
Show me a non apic drk who can solo kagen, vw, or the vw multi tree. I have done both, and no, no weakened items. Reg temps and apoc, solo only.
There are some things apoc drks can solo that no otber weapon can.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-05 17:24:14
What is the multi tree now?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2014-09-05 17:25:02
Why not change to any of the 15 other jobs that solo better than Apoc drk without a relic? Who gives a *** about soloing VW to begin with?
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-05 17:26:02
I can solo Virvatuli as cor, aw yusss!
By Blazed1979 2014-09-05 17:27:32
Played since NA release but would "never waste gil on an Apoc". I'm guessing you got into Relics pretty late in the game then?
It seems your entire argument and perspective is based on the "there can be only one" way to play this game. In that case, go play WAR, MNK or SAM, they do a lot more DMG than DRK. You might as well just retire the job, because when it comes to Zerging ***down, it pails in comparison to other jobs. That's all that counts right? Maxing dps output regardless..?
You left out Skirimish, Salvage 2.0, WKR, Legion and a lot of other content in your response.
Your lack of experience with Apoc turned this thread into a RAG VS APOC derail, which always seems to be the case with novice bandwagon Rag DRKS.
To end the discussion and summarize this exchange, Entropy is a great ws for Apoc and non-apoc drks to have.
One trick pony resolution spam DRKS will say otherwise why they pretend to be top tier dps and gimp your zerg runs.
By Blazed1979 2014-09-05 17:28:19
Why not change to any of the 15 other jobs that solo better than Apoc drk without a relic? Who gives a *** about soloing VW to begin with?
Why not change to any dd job other than DRK... quit gimping other people's runs.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-05 17:29:42
Might be nice for the first 3 you mentioned where you're mostly running around alone, but Legion? Why would you use Apoc in Legion, dats gimp
By Blazed1979 2014-09-05 17:31:34
Might be nice for the first 3 you mentioned where you're mostly running around alone, but Legion? Why would you use Apoc in Legion, dats gimp low man, tank.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 363
By Asura.Vafruvant 2014-09-05 17:35:08
Let's cycle back to the original point, the original question asked:
"re evaluating my merit-able weapons based on practicality"
There is nothing *practical* about the applications in which you're suggesting Apoc to be necessary. *practical* would be things that will be used on a regular basis, not some niche use that is only applicable with a Relic in low-man content.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2014-09-05 17:35:08
I realize how good Apoc was at 75, I played with plenty of Drks with it at 75 and yes it was a great weapon then. It hasn't been worth a second thought since Resolution came out. Heres the thing, Drk is a DD job like War, Mnk, and Sam. They have some difference and allow for some utility but they all have the same role no matter what you seem to think about Drk being a "tank". Also all the things you brought up in your things I left out you are better using Ragnarok for, so good job buddy. You seem to be a Drk stuck in the past who made a relic that was at one point good but can't accept that it is actually terrible and has absolutely no use in the current game outside of ballista, which makes you quite a novice actually.
Quote: Why not change to any dd job other than DRK... quit gimping other people's runs. Oddly enough when people use real weapons and actually know how to play, there isn't that much of a difference between the 4 DDs. Yeah Sam is going to be better by a little bit but not enough to just give up playing the job completely.
To end the discussion and summarize this exchange, Apoc sucks, Entropy sucks, lets all go solo VW.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5
By Fenrir.Presidentobama 2014-09-05 17:36:17
What is the multi tree now?
The vw in the boyba tree spawns a pet like every 10%. You end up having the nm plus eight or so tree monsters hitting you. A drk with no apoc would die.
Same for tbe tyrant ring whire vw. Apoc or die.
So it has its place. It is not the best group weapon perhaps, but it can help you make gil and do much solo.
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 585
By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2014-09-05 17:43:36
I realize how good Apoc was at 75, I played with plenty of Drks with it at 75 and yes it was a great weapon then. It hasn't been worth a second thought since Resolution came out. Heres the thing, Drk is a DD job like War, Mnk, and Sam. They have some difference and allow for some utility but they all have the same role no matter what you seem to think about Drk being a "tank". Also all the things you brought up in your things I left out you are better using Ragnarok for, so good job buddy. You seem to be a Drk stuck in the past who made a relic that was at one point good but can't accept that it is actually terrible and has absolutely no use in the current game outside of ballista, which makes you quite a novice actually.
Quote: Why not change to any dd job other than DRK... quit gimping other people's runs. Oddly enough when people use real weapons and actually know how to play, there isn't that much of a difference between the 4 DDs. Yeah Sam is going to be better by a little bit but not enough to just give up playing the job completely.
To end the discussion and summarize this exchange, Apoc sucks, Entropy sucks, lets all go solo VW.
You may if fooled around with drk like you said but you have little concept in tbe job and dmg. Res is nice to a point, but it falls short to torncleaver, and not by just a little.
If I use res, I may get smacked once or twice. If I use torn, chances are I am dead, few plds can recover hate from any aa runs I won on drk. Nor could other dd's generate enough hate to bounce it before death of me.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-05 17:45:01
This was said before a few times, if Torcleaver is beating your Resolution it means you're underbuffed.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2014-09-05 17:47:11
Torcleaver is for making Light, Resolution is for doing damage, Catastrophe is for pretending you have utility.
Quote: You may if fooled around with drk like you said but you have little concept in tbe job and dmg. Res is nice to a point, but it falls short to torncleaver, and not by just a little. I can guarantee you I understand Drk on a better level than you, I actually do events on the job as opposed to soloing VW.
By Blazed1979 2014-09-05 17:53:50
I realize how good Apoc was at 75, I played with plenty of Drks with it at 75 and yes it was a great weapon then. It hasn't been worth a second thought since Resolution came out. Heres the thing, Drk is a DD job like War, Mnk, and Sam. They have some difference and allow for some utility but they all have the same role no matter what you seem to think about Drk being a "tank". Also all the things you brought up in your things I left out you are better using Ragnarok for, so good job buddy. You seem to be a Drk stuck in the past who made a relic that was at one point good but can't accept that it is actually terrible and has absolutely no use in the current game outside of ballista, which makes you quite a novice actually.
Quote: Why not change to any dd job other than DRK... quit gimping other people's runs. Oddly enough when people use real weapons and actually know how to play, there isn't that much of a difference between the 4 DDs. Yeah Sam is going to be better by a little bit but not enough to just give up playing the job completely.
To end the discussion and summarize this exchange, Apoc sucks, Entropy sucks, lets all go solo VW.
You assume 1. I don't know how to play 2. I don't have any other weapons 3. the Niche for Apoc is VW and other obscure content.
All of those assumptions are based on ignorance of the subject.
Also, on what planet do you live in where DRKs are keeping up with MNKs and SAMs, or even WARs?
You must be playing with some really gimp people.
By Blazed1979 2014-09-05 17:55:32
This was said before a few times, if Torcleaver is beating your Resolution it means you're underbuffed. Yes and there are situations and circumstances that will take place where you have less than ideal set ups and buffs, in which case you might want to consider adapting your playstyle rather than hitting your "resolution" macro.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-05 17:56:06
This game gets its results from formulas, Apoc is greatly inferior to a gs in group play. No point being butthurt, it's fine to use it if that's what you worked on but it's not the best.
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By Blazed1979 2014-09-05 17:57:12
This game gets its results from formulas, Apoc is greatly inferior to a gs in group play. No point being butthurt, it's fine to use it if that's what you worked on but it's not the best.
/facepalm... please check Jinz and Stereo before you speak about being butthurt lol
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-05 17:57:15
This was said before a few times, if Torcleaver is beating your Resolution it means you're underbuffed. Yes and there are situations and circumstances that will take place where you have less than ideal set ups and buffs, in which case you might want to consider adapting your playstyle rather than hitting your "resolution" macro. Your reply to my post is irrelevant cause P-Obama said Torcleaver wins by a large margin over Reso, which is a highly inaccurate statement.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19429
By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-09-05 17:57:50
I bet you I can toss this football over them mountains over there
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-05 17:58:03
inb4 go make Koga like everyone else . Come on shake your body baby do the Koga! I know you can't control yourself any longa! ♫
By Blazed1979 2014-09-05 17:59:09
most of the time these forum 'maxers' aren't worth their spot in alliances.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19429
By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-09-05 17:59:58
such angst, such anger, such gimp.
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2014-09-05 18:00:04
I realize how good Apoc was at 75, I played with plenty of Drks with it at 75 and yes it was a great weapon then. It hasn't been worth a second thought since Resolution came out. Heres the thing, Drk is a DD job like War, Mnk, and Sam. They have some difference and allow for some utility but they all have the same role no matter what you seem to think about Drk being a "tank". Also all the things you brought up in your things I left out you are better using Ragnarok for, so good job buddy. You seem to be a Drk stuck in the past who made a relic that was at one point good but can't accept that it is actually terrible and has absolutely no use in the current game outside of ballista, which makes you quite a novice actually.
Quote: Why not change to any dd job other than DRK... quit gimping other people's runs. Oddly enough when people use real weapons and actually know how to play, there isn't that much of a difference between the 4 DDs. Yeah Sam is going to be better by a little bit but not enough to just give up playing the job completely.
To end the discussion and summarize this exchange, Apoc sucks, Entropy sucks, lets all go solo VW.
You assume 1. I don't know how to play 2. I don't have any other weapons 3. the Niche for Apoc is VW and other obscure content.
All of those assumptions are based on ignorance of the subject.
Also, on what planet do you live in where DRKs are keeping up with MNKs and SAMs, or even WARs?
You must be playing with some really gimp people. I do assume you don't know how to play because you have shown through this thread you really have no idea. Every Apoc argument I've ever heard, including yours, are based on situations that no one cares about or never happen. No one actually cares about your ability to "tank" with Apoc on Drk, that isn't what people use Drk for and for any player with a brain it doesn't matter. As far as DD hierarchy right now, Drk is not that bad off. Sam is obviously the best DD but Drk and War are pretty equal and not -that- far behind, if a Mnk is beating a Drk or War something is probably not right.
By Blazed1979 2014-09-05 18:03:18
I realize how good Apoc was at 75, I played with plenty of Drks with it at 75 and yes it was a great weapon then. It hasn't been worth a second thought since Resolution came out. Heres the thing, Drk is a DD job like War, Mnk, and Sam. They have some difference and allow for some utility but they all have the same role no matter what you seem to think about Drk being a "tank". Also all the things you brought up in your things I left out you are better using Ragnarok for, so good job buddy. You seem to be a Drk stuck in the past who made a relic that was at one point good but can't accept that it is actually terrible and has absolutely no use in the current game outside of ballista, which makes you quite a novice actually.
Quote: Why not change to any dd job other than DRK... quit gimping other people's runs. Oddly enough when people use real weapons and actually know how to play, there isn't that much of a difference between the 4 DDs. Yeah Sam is going to be better by a little bit but not enough to just give up playing the job completely.
To end the discussion and summarize this exchange, Apoc sucks, Entropy sucks, lets all go solo VW.
You assume 1. I don't know how to play 2. I don't have any other weapons 3. the Niche for Apoc is VW and other obscure content.
All of those assumptions are based on ignorance of the subject.
Also, on what planet do you live in where DRKs are keeping up with MNKs and SAMs, or even WARs?
You must be playing with some really gimp people. I do assume you don't know how to play because you have shown through this thread you really have no idea. Every Apoc argument I've ever heard, including yours, are based on situations that no one cares about or never happen. No one actually cares about your ability to "tank" with Apoc on Drk, that isn't what people use Drk for and for any player with a brain it doesn't matter. As far as DD hierarchy right now, Drk is not that bad off. Sam is obviously the best DD but Drk and War are pretty equal and not -that- far behind, if a Mnk is beating a Drk or War it is sad.
"Waaa waaa you're not allowed to be different and have fun. Someone tell him!"
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-05 18:03:48
You're allowed to be different all you desire, that's absolutely fine. But don't go saying it's better.
By Blazed1979 2014-09-05 18:06:37
You're allowed to be different all you desire, that's absolutely fine. But don't go saying it's better.
Better is a technical and subjective term. Things aren't always linear and in trying to make things a better vs worst situation you oversimplify things. This is the habit of a lazy and challenged intellect.
EDIT: I don't use words like "better". So you will be hard pressed to find where I stated Apoc was better. All I said was for a DRK Main, Entropy is a must. If DRK is your main, you're playing it large man, low man, solo and plain old "fun" content as well as farming runs. Is Instant MP valid in any of those situations?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3213
By Asura.Failaras 2014-09-05 18:07:56
You're allowed to be different all you desire, that's absolutely fine. But don't go saying it's better. Exactly.
Quote: Better is a technical and subjective term. Things aren't always linear and in trying to make things a better vs worst situation you oversimplify things. This is the habit of a lazy and challenged intellect. And that is a complete and total copout answer. We know how this game works, we've been playing it for over a decade, we know what Drk in reality does and does not. You can make statements like something is better when it IS a superior weapon for almost every event and almost every circumstance. Especially when the events that the weapon wins in are the ones that people actually care about optimizing for and doing (like delve) instead of soloing VW.
Finishing up my recapping my merits and currently re evaluating my merit-able weapons based on practicality. would appreciate your opinions and hopefully bring attention to situations/logic i have missed.
Shijin 0/5 - Not necessary with release of Victory Smite and various adjustments from other option via ws update.
Exenterator - Most have for non REM and Dancer.
Requiescat - Utility for Cor, Sam, Run in Delve. Must have options for BLU/PLD mains.
Resolution - Must have for DRK/WAR/RUN.
Ruinator - Must have for Serious BST, Rampage is meh vs it. option for war.
Upheavel - Nice GA ws but not necessary with Res and Ukko's
Entropy - none necessary, with Res/cata
Stardiver - Top Polearm ws for none Mythics, must have if main, Drakesbane is an accept alt ws, Camlaan torment option too?
Blade: Shun - not needed with Hi and jin.
Shoha - Fudo is king. unlock if main.
realm - unecessary
Shatter - nice for blm brd soloing, but not worth points if short on options
apex arrow - must have for bow non relic sam, otherwise dont bother.
Last Stand - Must have if you pay cor or rng.
so that leaves me at
3/5 Last stand
3/5 Res
3/5 Exen
3/5 ruin
3/5 Requiescat
i dont play bst must but the ws seems necessary so depending on feedback and suggestions for which i must 5/5 (if serous about job). i probably will put 1/5 ruin toss those into last stand or exen or res.
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