Please Sign In To Stop Genocide In Palestine

I'd sign a petition to end all petitions though...

That's the only petition worth signing.

Just give them all smart phones instead of killing each other they will be updating their Facebook statues.

Mahaib updated his status: Now training to send photobombs on Feinstein and his obsession with bagels.

That's not how that happened. I mentioned above exactly what happened, nobody in the UN wanted to permanently resettle the displaced Jewish people from WWII. There was no such thing as "Palestine", that's the real thing people need to understand. There was Israel, Judah and then the barbarian tribes of the Philistines to the west. Those tribes used to raid into the central area until history cease's mentioning them, the assumption was that they were either conquered or integrated into the existing countries when Israel/Judah was conquered. The greeks referred to the land as "Palestine" and the name stuck, there never, at any point in time a nation or a people called "Palestine's". Over the centuries that land got conquered and reconquered and swapped hands, eventually refugees from the surrounding Arab lands ended up settling there to avoid other conflicts since there wasn't a central government. What you ended up with was ethnic Jews and a mixture of Egyptians, Asyrians and Turks with the only thing in common being that they were Muslims. Eventually even some Christians settled. It wasn't until the the late 18th and 19th century when sh!t got bad and the Jewish population had to flee into the northern parts of the Empire (now South East Europe). Anyhow the important take away is that there never as any Palestine government, ethnicity or people until suddenly after WWII. The region was being controlled by the British precisely because there was never an organized central government to create a country out of, unlike in the rest of the Ottoman Empire (now called Middle east).

Now we can all debate the wisdom of the UN doing this until pigs fly, and there are very valid reasons on both sides, but that won't have any impact on the current situation. We have one people that wants to be left alone, one people who are trying to get along with the, then a third set of people who vow to kill every Jewish man, women and child. The PA with Fatah in the West Bank has come to terms with Israel and is currently working their issues out, there is lots of friction but violence has stopped. There are Palestinians and Israelis living peacefully side by side. The Gazah strip on the other hand has no Israelis (Israel forcible relocated everyone there awhile back) and is governed by Hamas who vows to kill all Jews and create a single Arab state out of the land.

By the way when you hear either Fatah or Hamas refer to "Israeli settlements" they are talking about different things. Fatah is referencing to the Israeli's building apartment complex's in the currently disputed unoccupied Area C. Hamas is referring to any Israeli home in what was once known as the British Mandate of Palestine. Hamas does not recognize the UN dual country plan, does not recognize Israel as a country and operates under the belief that all the land belongs to them.

I do believe that Israel needs to come to terms directly with Fatah over how to partition the land up such that everyone gets ahead. Of course Fatah can't accept anything Israel says right now due to them being in hot water from not supporting the hard line "it all belongs to us and we need to kill the invaders" that is widely supported by the "Palestinian's". That's really what's jamming the whole thing up, the widespread hatred (as demonstrated by people on this forum) of Jewish people has lead to a situation where no politically acceptable resolution can be made. Fatah deciding that it was "not ok" to kill Jew's indiscriminately got them into hot water and resulted in Hamas, who believed it was "your duty as a Muslim" to kill Jew's, winning the PA elections. If they publicly agree to recognize Jewish claim to any land between west of the Jordan river and the Mediterranean Sea they would lose power and someone more in line with the populations beliefs (read: more extreme) would get in power and we'd be back to square one.

Apologies then. I'm not well versed in post-WWII/pre-Vietnam politics as well as I should be.

are we ever really as well versed in anything as we should be?

If we were, wouldn't these kinds of conflicts be avoided before they begin?

/endhippygranolarant

People have and will continue to go to war. Sometimes over the most mundane *** ever conceivable by the human imagination, and real legitimate threats to our being, prosperity, and our families.

Also, I've learned to disregard Senkyuutai quite quickly, as soon as he pulls out the "every American is living in a Hollywood movie" shpiel, which shows an even greater blatant ignorance than what he claims others show on world topics. And how little he knows of the citizens of the world beyond himself.

It's very easy to understand.

Right now if all Israeli's put down and destroy all their weapons, what do you think would happen next?

If your response is anything other then the complete and total annihilation of every Jewish man, women and child then your ignorant.

Right now if all Hamas puts down and destroys all their weapons, what do you think would happen next?

Here is something to think about, Israel isn't bombing any Palestinians in the West Bank, and none of the Palestinians in the West Bank are launching rocks or killing Israeli's. There is peace in the West Bank though it's been enforced by an Israeli military presence. The violence is limit to Gaza which is under complete Palestinian control with no Israeli presence at all.

Problem is, how can we determine the absolute truth in the matter?

Simple items, it wouldn't be so hard. More complex items, like governmental issues, it would be nearly impossible, especially as time goes on.

Who's to say what the leaders in the UN were truly thinking when they cut off a piece of land and created Israel? Was it out of pity? Was it out of justice? Was it just to shut them up? We will honestly never know.

UN couldn't lead it's way out of a paper bag.

Assuming of course, that they vote in favour of leaving the paper bag.

Which the United States would use it's security council status to Veto anyway.

Don't forget who actually created a resolution to remove the UN out of the paper bag has a lot to do with who is going to vote in favor or not.

Amusing.

Either way, aren't peace treaties not a thing anymore? Things should just escalate instead? I'm not one of those crazies who constantly screams ww3 is coming, but things eventually do escalate if left to their own devices.

Diplomacy should be the way and so far(according to the news here so I can't guarantee the veridicity of this last statement)Israel has refused any compromise.

And meanwhile the dead bodies count keeps rising.

And btw no, I don't hate jews(I've never even met one in my life), I actually despise pretty much all aspects of the islamic culture, but this doesn't mean those poor israelites are innocent.

You also make it soud like UN created Israel for the good, when in fact Churchill was against it but everyone was sucking USA's *** after ww2 and they decided more or less everything they wanted. Israel was born as a puppet state in the middle east and then demanded more over the years and USA high-fived its expansions. It's illegal in every possible way, but whatcha gonna do, people with power decide who gets what.

Don't worry about it. Funny side note, it was the British who forced the UN's plan into action. The US supported it but many of the European nations were against it. After WWII Britain announced they were unilaterally ceasing control of the Mandate. They needed the resources to rebuild England and so there would of been no central authority to enforce the rule of law. That land had been ruled by so many foreign powers for so long that it had lost any semblance of a central power structure long long ago. So going with the "Two state" plan was deemed, at that time, better then doing nothing.


Anyhow this is somewhat of a passion of mine. I'm not Jewish and hold no attachment to Isreal, but I absolutely love how much history there is there. It infuriates me when I see a bunch of idiots with next to no real knowledge, outside of political talking points and Russian grade propaganda pieces, going about blaming Israel for the current violence.

It's like someone breaking into your house, your shooting them, then having people criticize you for shooting them. Telling you that your shooting them is what caused them to break into your house and you should be forced to take responsibility for them breaking in and pay reparations to them, then allow them to finish stealing your stuff and murdering your family.

The basic mentality follows something like this

How dare those Israel people shoot at those poor Palestine people. Those Palestinians were just firing rockets at Israeli schools and hospitals like all good Muslims should. How dare those Israeli's discriminate and oppress those Muslims trying to just do their duty of killing Jews. The Israeli's should put down their weapons and allow themselves to be slaughtered like all good Jews do. Then without the breathing of the Jews to stir the Muslims to violence there would finally be peace

Which basically answers everything to do with international politics.

I have one FFXI account that is pro Israel and one that is anti Israel so it balances out.

Israel has a peace treat with Egypt which is how Egypt got a large portion of it's land back from Israel. Further more if you researched a bit you'd find out that Israel and the Palestinian Authority (Fatah) have had ongoing negotiations regarding how to divide up Area C. Earlier I posted a set of maps, go read those maps and try to comprehend what each one is describing. Fatah is who's in charge of the West Bank and it's currently a peaceful area, Israelis and Palestinians are living side by side without the Palestinians trying to kill the Israelis.

The responsibility for the violence lays firming on those carrying the belief that it's the duty of the good Muslim to kill all Jews. This is actually part of the Muslim religion though more tolerant factions chose to interpret it more leniently. You can not negotiate peace with someone who's stated goal is to kill you, your wife and all your children and your children's children.

Really can't state that last part enough. YES it is that bad, yes they do believe that, and yes that's the driving force behind the violence. If Israel was to pull out 100% from Area C of the West Bank, the violence would not stop. And if history is any guide it would only intensify like it did after 2005 when Israel pull out 100% from Gaza strip. Within one year Israel received more then 1,900 rocket attacks that originated in Gaza after pulling out.

So nothing about Gaza being blockaded which breeds contempt among Palestinians against Jews.
The destruction of Palestinian homes to make way for Jewish settlements.
Humiliating conditions and ghettos reserved for Palestinians.
Restrictions on freedom of movement.
The disturbing growth of Israel over the past decades amidst the 'two-state' solution. (throw in a laugh track here)
Discriminatory practices against Palestianian businesses which again breeds contempt.
Or the flagrant disregard against building settlements in disputed areas?

Oh the Palestianians have blood on their hands but Israel is colonizing pure and simple, the international PR is just meant to sweeten the medicine as it goes down.

If you want to blunt the power organizations like Hamas have, stop giving them rhetorical ammunition. The Jews have more power here (you've got 'Murica on your side) so they'll have to shoulder the efforts for 'peace', not continue to march down the road of an endless conflict.

But perhaps that's because Israel knows it will win one day and all of that land will become theirs again.

As for US politicians? They'll continue to suck AIPAC *** because they have clout, money and influence.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If I was Israel, I would blow up the dome of the rock and then threaten to completely destroy mecca next unless gaza and the west bank were surrendered to israel immediately.

It's the only thing everyone would understand.

Who would have a thought a thread about Israeli and Palestine would have erupted like this?

The UN created Israel out of political expediency. I stated this in plain language that was easy to read. There was a large number of displaced Jewish refuges that absolutely nobody wanted permanently settling in their country's. Europe, and much of the world, is rife with antisemitism and no political leader wanted to be the one to take that bullet. Britain was abandoning control of the Mandate, an area that absolutely nobody wanted. The US (under influence from the Zionists) had been pushing for a designated separate area for the Jews to settle.

Put all that together and you have a situation where they just gave control of the area to the Jewish settlers with a poorly laid out plan. I mean seriously take a look at the proposed "nations", they aren't even geographically connected to each other. It wasn't altruistic, it was plain political expediency.

And exactly how is it "Illegal"? There was no nation there. It was territory controlled by the Ottoman Empire, I believe it was Saladin who took it from the European Crusaders. Yes that land was once under European control. It was passed around to so many different entities that it lost all sense of cohesion.

I know such complex geopolitical concepts are beyond your capacity to think or understand. You can at least just shut the f*ck up and listen to people who know a great deal more then you.

Saevel, give me a break.

The minute people are afforded opportunity, education, lives and a stable sense of self that duty to 'kill all unbelievers' rubbish is thrown out the window for selfish pursuits like improving one's home, throwing a birthday party, expanding one's business or getting home in time to watch the soccer game. I only need look at all the Muslims apologizing for passages in the Koran or Biblical apology 101 to know that.

"Someone else can go wage jihad, I've got better things to do."

Funny enough you give the Jews a pass when the ***they believe is equally dangerous and ridiculous. God gave you this land? It's yours by divine mandate? Your holy books say so? Right. Ok.

Of course when you're under constant threat of bombardment and your land shrinks with each decade it becomes very easy for Hamas to brainwash you and your offspring into fighting their war.

I'm from the US and I must say that for the most part, Americans desire the fighting to stop but we do not care if it does or not. This conflict is none of our business and want nothing to do with it.

The rest of the world seems to think we live in a world of flowers and rainbows and for the everyday American, this is not true. We have our own problems to deal with.

(someone had to)

Tell the Jews come to America, we'll cut out part of a US state for them and they can live in eternal peace thousands of miles away from any Muslims in New Isarel with New Jerusalem. We've got more land than we know what to do with here in 'Murica.

What's that? Religion? Holy land? Right of Return? Dammit, so much for solving this problem rationally.