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I find that most westerners who claim to have read the Quran, haven't actually read it. Either that or they don't posses enough literacy to comprehend it.

Ramblings? I'm sorry the Quran isn't the new or old testement type of book that many westerners associate Holy books to be.

The entire problem with understanding Islam is that Westerners view it as a religion based on their own subjective experiences with relgiion.

You say religion and an anti-christian westerner thinks vengeful god and bloody wars.

But back to "ramblings" - Is any of this "rambling" ? (this is 1,436 years old literatur by the way, from the Quran)

By the way, Harvard Med school quote the Quran in describing the development of embryos in a woman's womb. Something that has been proven to be scientifically accurate, only 38 years ago.

"The belief that Qur'an had prophesied scientific theories and discoveries has become widely popular in the contemporary Islamic world.[8] These prophecies are often provided as a proof of the divine origin of the Qur'an.[9] There are many examples of scientific facts mentioned in the Qur'an that were unsupported by the scientific knowledge and beliefs of the time, but have since proved accurate due to modern technology.[10] Some examples are listed below.

The expansion of the universe The size of the universe has long been in question, but it was not until 1929 when Edwin Hubble, an astronomer at the California Institute of Technology, proposed that the universe was expanding.[11] But the text of the Qur'an acknowledges this idea in the following verse: “And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it” (Qur'an 51:47).[12]

Orbits German mathematician, astronomer and astrologer Johannes Kepler (1571-1630) is attributed with correctly identifying planetary motion. His laws of planetary motion concluded that planets move in almost-circular shaped orbits called ellipses. He published these laws in 1609 and 1619.[13] However, the Qur'an mentions orbits in the following verses:[14] "It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit. " (Qur'an, 21:33).[12] "By the sky full of paths and orbits" (Qur'an 51:7).[12]

The Sky The sky serves very important functions for life on Earth. The greenhouse effect idea was popularized in the 1800s. It claims that energy radiated by the sun reaches Earth in the form of heat. Some of the heat is trapped due to gases in the atmosphere like carbon dioxide, water vapor, and methane. The atmosphere keeps the Earth at a temperature that sustains life. Without this protection, the Earth would be exposed to the below freezing temperatures of outer space.[15] In addition, the ozone layer of the atmosphere protects the Earth and its living inhabitants from harmful radiation rays and meteors.[16] The protective capabilities of the sky were only discovered in the 19th century, yet the Qur'an states the following:[17] "We made the sky a preserved and protected roof yet still they turn away from Our Signs.." (Qur'an, 21:32).[12]

Mountains The theory of continental drift was proposed by Alfred Wegener, a meteorologist, in 1915. He suggested that the world was originally composed of a single land mass or continent, and that the continents then separated and moved very slowly apart, forming the 7 continents today, and still in motion.[18] The theory of plate tectonics which was developed from continental drift supports this idea and provides evidence of how the plates of the Earth move.[18] The Qur'an says:[19] "You will see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds" (Qur'an, 27:88).[12]

Time German-born physicist Albert Einstein formulated the general theory of relativity in 1915. This theory is a highly successful model of gravitation and cosmology, which has so far passed many unambiguous observational and experimental tests. According to general relativity processes close to a massive body run more slowly than those farther away, an effect known as gravitational time dilation.[20] Gravity has a direct effect on time. Although this theory was not formulated until the early 1900s, the Qur'an says the following:
"They ask you to hasten the punishment. God will not break His promise. A day with your Lord is equivalent to a thousand years in the way you count" (Qur'an, 22:47).[12] "He directs the whole affair from heaven to earth. Then it will again ascend to Him on a Day whose length is a thousand years by the way you measure" (Qur'an, 32:5).[12] The Qur'an, which is believed to be the word of God, demonstrates perfect knowledge of the relativity of time long before Einstein’s theories were created.[21]

These are just a sample of the many statements in the Qur'an that can be considered to predict scientific discoveries. Muhammad was an illiterate man who would have been incapable of writing the Qur'an, which leads believers to claim that it must have been revealed to him through God.[22]

Islamic scholar Zaghloul El-Naggar believes that the verse, "A time is fixed for every prophecy; you will come to know in time",[Quran 6:67] refers to statements in the Qur'an that predict scientific discoveries made centuries later[9]

In the Muslim world some believe that scientific discoveries were predicted, while others do not.[23] saying that the Qur'an is not a book of science. Al-Biruni, one of the most celebrated Muslim scientists of the classical period, assigned to the Qur'an a separate and autonomous realm of its own and held that the Qur'an "does not interfere in the business of science, nor does it infringe on the realm of science."[9]
These scholars maintain the possibility of multiple scientific explanations of natural phenomena and do not subordinate the Qur'an to an ever-changing science.[9]"

No sorry not buying into that. People do the same about all kind of prophecies, just wait till something similar and appliable happens and say it was predicted.

Who's saying it's a paladin nation? It's not.

People here are out characterizing Israel as a bully, because it's so much more capable than Hamas. It's not (a bully).

Hamas is the aggressor here, before this recent round of ground warfare, Gaza had fired over 170 rockets into Israel this year alone. The only way Israel can be a bully in that situation is if somehow you can just ignore that depravity. Really not sure how people corner themselves into that.

None of what you just stated has anything to do with what I posted.

Did you mean to quote someone else?

I don't know what you guys are talking about I love hummus...


My bad Hamas both are delicious and make a good appetizer.

I think the actual problem here is that nobody wants to place equal blame on both sides.

It has to be (nearly all of) Israel's fault or it has to be (nearly all of) Hamas's fault.

Why not consider it is both parties fault for instigating and continuing this war, as neither side has made any reasonable attempt to stop this war.

Who cares what happened in the past? It is what you do with today that matters.

I care because I want my challah bread !

I did in my very first post in this thread.

But once again, people around here have the reading abilities of a 2 years old.

I'm two years old and I'm offended.

In the beginning God created paragraph breaks and it was a good thing.

That's horseshit!

How is Israel to blame for the chaos when it launches a ground warfare operation after receiving over 170 rocket attacks from Gaza?

How is Hamas not to blame for firing them in the first place?

Your message may be similar, but the execution of your point was bad.

If you want people to take you seriously, you shouldn't start off by calling everyone but you an idiot for not agreeing with you on the point you are making.

I understand that you are French, but you don't have to start off a topic by attacking everyone and anyone who doesn't agree with you on your point you are currently making...

A snooty Frenchman well I never !

When did he make a point? He just went around calling Americans morons and rambled on about how the Zionists are the true enemy that "control the west". If you insert any kind of logic or reasonable debate he calls you an idiot and then starts his random drivel all over again.

It's like having a discussion with Jet... He'll just tell you about your issues with reading comprehension act like he's won then keep talking about the same ***over and over that has no place anywhere lol...

It's just funny that you're asking questions that have been answered a dozen times already in this thread alone. Read more.

Smart people do not care about the form, they care about the content, the point.

So, once again, just because I'm facing people who are pseudo-sunday-only-intellectuals (which I could just call wastes, I'm being nice) and call them as such doesn't make my point any less true.

If you can't get past your anus pain and see a point, you have some issues.

You answered your own question there. Israel's message has always been about peace between the two nations. I understand that the best way to get rid of these rocket attacks from Gaza would be to destroy the rockets themselves.

But how can you defend Israel when it goes beyond that?


Who said I'm not blaming Hamas? I'm not attacking Israel only, I'm attacking them both.

What I see there is two children fighting over a piece of playground equipment.

Would you not do anything to the children and continue to watch them fight, or would you separate them and let them both play on the playground separately?

Oh boy, you're still mad because of what I said? You couldn't even answer so you just have to go and jump on the bandwagon.

Is there your picture on the wikipedia page that defines the term "Beta"? Or maybe on Urban Dictionary? Because you make a very good definition for it. Respect.

I was referring to his first post. Since that is what he said about against my own post.

People will take your words better and more often if you don't aggressively attack them for any and all points you are trying to make.

Intelligence has nothing to do with it. If I say the sky is blue and Senkyuutai is an idiot for not believing me as I type this, you will ignore me because I attacked your intelligence. People will agree with me because I did not attack them, but you will ignore me because I took the time to attack you for your "lack" of intelligence. Even if you would agree with me and say "yes, the sky is blue."

Sky is blue I blame the Democrats !


The idea of a Sunday intellectual intrigues me. Does this come with brunch ?

Peace through strength is the only peace there is. I mean when you hide rockets inside schools, then the schools will become targets. War is hell, it can be no other way.


Then you have an oversimplified view of the current crisis.

Call me naive again, but this is disgusting.

Make bread not war ?

Isn't that the Axe body spray logo ?

You know, I think Senkyuutai's core problem in being perceived as an unhinged angry loudmouth stems from his avatar picture.

You're giving an example where what you say makes no sense whereas what I said made perfect sense. If I tell you that you are an idiot because you think people should die based on a flawed logic, then, yes, you are an idiot, and here is why.

Peace through strength can only be achieved when there is no fighting going on.

I made it oversimplified not for your benefit, but for everyone's.

I understand that it is more complex than that, but that is basically what it boils down to, two (groups of) people fighting for a piece of property.

The hippie ideals intrigue me how much Axe body spray do I have to buy to have world peace ?

Yes... you got me Frenchie... I'm just soooo mad lol...

You're a joke... In this entire topic all you've really done is attack people that don't agree with you or just attack people in general... This usually happens when mental midgets carrying a superiority complex take the stage.

I must admit I did get a giggle out of the old "is that your picture next to this word in the dictionary?" joke... classic... you should really update your repertoire though... it's really stale.

Then you are indeed naive...

The only place anything you've said makes "perfect sense" resides solely in your head...