Please Sign In To Stop Genocide In Palestine

And now with asking that so seriously I can only drop it :(

For a third wheel/party, you sure are the most butthurt of them all. You made me smile, thanks.

That plus the answers to Ccl's question, oh my. We really don't have to post wall of texts anymore, you guys just prove our points by simply answering. And you don't even realize it or, in the case of Viciouss, just try to bury it under the carpet. This thread is gold.

Still waiting on you to actually make some kind of point.

Still waiting on you to realize that as I just said (you really have troubles reading, don't you? not saying it's typically American, though), you are making my point stronger.

So unless you don't even grasp the content of your own posts, you very well know what is my point and why it pushes you to answer, and be upset (or buttmad in some situation like periodrose).

Other than ccl just latching onto you and saying absolutely nothing of substance, you have yet to really say anything. Keep thinking that you have though. No one is upset, other than people irritated at ccl's poor communication skills.

Not even upset bro, just want to bleach my brain, it's like reading Kawar, it hurts.

I'm done, people from USA on gw/ffxi told me there is no point to argue with monsters on this subject.

Great. Bye.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w84oEbtZOHU&feature=youtu.be

This video is a lie too right ?

Then that's why you don't view making fun of prophet Muhammad as a big deal.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/earlysaw.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad#Non-Muslim_sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Islam_as_Others_Saw_It

You can question something you don't know about, but you shouldn't make a conclusion until you've done enough research. You can't just generalize what you learned from Zeitgeist (the part where they question Jesus' existence) on everything religious.

Which sub-type of epilepsy is it that develops at the age 40, and then you start your "incoherent rambling" (do you even understand Arabic? The Quran is a unique literary form, nothing like it was ever produced before nor after)? At this age, you think of a brain tumor, or a stroke.
From what I recall regarding the descriptions of his state while receiving revelation in Muslim sources, if I'm to analogize it to a specific type, it'd be petit-mal seizures, and these usually start in early childhood.

But all that is irrelevant. What's relevant is: was he a deluded person, a lier, or telling the truth?
http://islamicpreacher.blogspot.com/2012/07/prophet-hood-of-muhammad-pbuh-by.html
If I was a lier claiming to be on a divine mission from God, and the sun eclipses on the day my child dies, and people start thinking "it must be because his son died", if I don't assert it, at least I wouldn't try to very clearly dismiss it.

Jassik, it does require a fair bit of ignorance, whether the reader is a Muslim or not. Ignorance of the context of the quote, the meaning behind it, and, most of all, of the nature, life and teachings of the man to whom this book was revealed.

One quick example is that after reading about the Israelites many times, one might conclude: "I should hate all Jews" or "God must really hate all Jews". But that's a very shallow understanding (and I can back up my statement, I just intend for this to be quick). The message is to condemn the actions and warn us from following into their footsteps, rather than stigmatize a certain group of people.

And, at whoever claimed that Jews were always oppressed under Islamic rule:

"Jerusalem in the past, Jerusalem today:
An Italian Rabbi, Obadiah Yareh Da Bertinoro, travelled to Jerusalem in 1486 CE and he wrote a letter to his father telling him about the country and its people:
“The Jews are not persecuted by the Arabs in these parts. I have travelled through the country in its length and breadth, and none of them has put an obstacle in my way. They are very kind to strangers, particularly to anyone who does not know the language; and if they see many Jews together they are not annoyed by it. In my opinion, an intelligent man versed in political science might easily raise himself to be chief of the Jews as well as of the Arabs…”[1]
Compare the above with the situation of Jerusalem today.
[1] Rabbi Obadiah Yareh Da Bertinoro, quoted in The Jewish Caravan edited by Leo W. Schwarz, The Jewish Publication Society of America, Philadelphia, 1946, p. 249."

And:

"Zionist intolerance versus Muslim tolerance:
An Italian Jewish traveller, David dei Rossi, travelled through the Muslim world during the sixteenth century. He documented his observations about Jewish people living in the Muslim world,
"The Turks hold respectable Jews in esteem. Here and in Alexandria, Egypt, Jews are the chief officers and administrators of the customs, and the king’s revenues. No injuries are perpetuated against them in all the empire."[1]
Compare this with the Zionist state of Israel where Palestinians are treated worse than second class citizens.
[1] David dei Rossi, quoted by Norman A. Stillman, The Jews of Arab Lands: A History and Source Book. Philadelphia, 1979, pp. 291-92."

Anyone can oppress anyone (Muslims can oppress Muslims) for a variety of reasons, I find that silly to discuss. The point is: is it dictated by their doctrine or creed? is it a dogma (which is hard to change)? That is where the problem lies.

1. The person who the prophet muhammad is supposed to be, lived. The character that his followers believe in, that is up for debate.

I don't know if you are familiar with the game telephone that children are taught, but people change the story, exaggerate, lie, and are misunderstood within minutes of re-telling a story and these stories occurred 1500+ years ago. That's where faith comes in and fact leaves.

2. You completely disregarded the first words I said. I was attempting to explain why WWII was different (fact vs. faith) but I was not advocating that it should be treated differently. However, you got upset with my mildly worded one line about a potential prophet.

Ignoring all the ad hominem that's been going back and forth from both sides of the argument, notice how(for the most part) all americans are on the same side, and eu posters on the other. Kinda interesting.

Also some of the same people who here say "but the poor jews deserved a home!" are the ones claiming immigrants in US need to be shot down.


I wish some people would get out of their tunnel vision, Israel is criminal.

But they are fighting the A-rabs, they must be good!

Saying the Palestinians have no right to complain about losing land is on the same level as saying the natives in the Americas/Australia had no right to complain when Europeans took over.

This has been immensely entertaining, especially the people tying to say Hamas's mission isn't to commit genocide by wiping out every Jewish man, women and child. That was the entire reason they split off from Fatah. Europeans been hating Jews for centuries, the Catholics really didn't like them. Some of that made it to the USA but it's been watered down over time.

Israel's done some ugly sh!t, yet given the circumstances I can totally understand. They love their children and won't let them be killed by Arabs because of their religion / ethnicity. They are also being extremely conservative with their attacks. Israel possesses the military technology to exterminate every living thing in the Gaza strip, and since they forcibly relocated their people in 2005 there isn't a single Israeli left there. The fact that they haven't carpet / fire bombed that place into a blasted ruin earlier and just withstood waves after waves of rocket attacks, well that speaks volumes about their level of restraint.

No, we don't hate jews. Stop using that to try and strenghten your argument.

Multiple times throughout history various European countries have either forcibly relocated their Jewish populations or just killed them off. You've also done that with the Gypsies.

It's really interesting to see your own cognitive dissonance, there is well documented history that reliably covers a good two thousand years with another two thousands years being somewhat sketchy yet accurate enough for general purposes. It takes some Olympic grade mental gymnastics to somehow fault Israel for protecting their children while absolving Hamas, any previously Fatah, of responsibility for mass, indiscriminate killings of Jewish people. Given the known history of Hamas along with their stated political goals (single Arab nation devoid of all Jews) it's only logical to conclude they will continue killing Jews indiscriminately.

Hell nearly everyone in their thread is still confusing Hamas and Fatah and thinking all Palestinian people are the enemies of Israel, even after being provided with sufficient information to the contrary. I don't have high expectations but at least people could get some basic education about all sides of the conflict.

Again, you're putting things in your argument to strenghten it that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

I made a poin of how eu posters and us posters are on opposing side and you replied eu hate the jews..now you specify it's in history, but you're talking to users here, not to the history of countries, and no one here hates jews, so you should remove that from your argument.

And now you're replying to me that I absolve Palestine, when in my very first post I said it has plenty of responsibilities for which it's to blame.

If you want to discuss something you should do so with the pertinent information; sure you're free to digress and expand the topic but you can't use that to create a fault in the other side since it wasn't even touched on.

If anything, as far as my knowledge goes with the Dieudonné issue we had in the beginning of 2014 (and still have to an extent), people dislike Zionists, not Jews. I don't care about Jews, I literally give 0 ***about them, but Zionists are dangerous. Zionists happen to be Jews and also to control Israel.

That's about it. Regarding roms, it's not as easy.

If you want to make a proper comparison between different communities/kind of people, you could compare the Jews, people from Maghreb and Gipsies. You'll notice that these three communities are VERY different and have been accepted (or not) in very different ways through France and the related countries. I won't talk about Italy, Spain and Germany as I only know a bit of what they have, but I'm pretty sure they have faced the same stuff as they're in the same position as us.

We don't hate a whole group of people or religions, we hate the extremists that hide among their ranks. The innocent Jews are being manipulated by a very small part (the Zionists) and attract the hate in general, but if you put a Zionist and a "normal Jew" next to each other and explain the difference, no one in their right mind in EU will harm the Jew, or ask for him/her to be taken away. Only the Zionist will get into troubles.

Exactly like the Hamas is using innocent people and has made any innocent children into a potential bomb. You have to be objective in this kind of situation, really, this isn't as simple as G.I. Joe.

Hahaha

I wrote rather long posts with maps and history. I explained the why's and hows of each side and how it all came about. I even explained that since the UN two nation plan was rejected by the Arabs, Israel believes it has no legal authority. None of this matter to you or the other posters. You just shout some ignorant inane sh!t like


This entire discussion isn't based on logic or reason but on emotion and feelings. You are not open to having your views changed no matter how much information is presented.

And now you shift the focus on what we were talking about.

We're not here defending Hamas, rather pointing out Israel doesn't deserve the whiteknighting it gets in this thread.

This is incorrect. You, like others, are inventing bond villains to simplify what is essentially a perspective problem. There are no super intelligent Zionists secretly plotting the extermination of all Palestinians so can have the land all to themselves. Someone capable of doing that would of quickly realized the futility of it and gone about doing other things.

Israel is a democratic nation, their leadership is voted in the same as the rest of ours. We (the observers) are under no direct threat of harm from Hamas rockets or fanatical extreme Islamic cries to exterminate us. So we see a militarily superior nation/people attacking a military inferior nation/people and we cry foul. They (the Israeli actors) are under the direct threat of harm from those attacks and most importantly their children are under direct threat of harm. They act accordingly to protect themselves and their children and counter-attack the attackers by using superior force. From the Israeli's point of view the most important thing is the protection of their family's and if innocent Palestinians have to die to insure Hamas can't harm them, so be it.

The idea of a peaceful resolution is naive. The idea that any Israeli would put down his weapons and trust Islamic extremists not to attack their children is so naive as it borders on childhood fantasy. And the idea that anyone can dissuade Hamas from continuing their attacks using peaceful measures is probably the most naive of all.

This is the reality of that conflict. There will be no peace as long as Islamic extremism exists.

We are past page nine so any point will be incoherent rambling and sorta amusing.

I can accept the accusation of being too naive, as a matter of fact I am.

What I'm against is the proclaiming of Israel to some kind of paladin nation. It isn't.

All you need is love. It has to be true I heard it in a song.


(that and a missile defense system)


I can end this conflict with one song though:

Remember to smile when your enemy tries to destroy you.


If the 1960's taught us anything it is that songs and signs can change the world...for the worse.

Chairman Mao would be rolling in his grave right now if he could read all this bleeding heart nonsense. Hamas knows dawn well what they're doing. They didn't launch rockets and dig intricate tunnels for shats and giggles. They are strategically launching rockets in areas where there are bound to be high civilian casualties. All of that and more are strategic directives not even of Hamas origin. Hamas does not manufacture their own weapons. They pay for them. Follow the money and you'll find where interests meet.

I only read your first and last sentences.

How do you explain the fact that Zionists/bad Jews (whatever, really) are controlling the western nations for their own profit? Knowing that this has nothing to do with Islam, Palestine or whatever.