Random Politics & Religion #00
Random Politics & Religion #00
I said this a while back, but I'm under the impression that most Christian faiths are so far removed from the original teachings that even if some legitimate modern-day Moses was sent to set the record straight, he'd be rejected by the vast majority.
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I said this a while back, but I'm under the impression that most Christian faiths are so far removed from the original teachings that even if some legitimate modern-day Moses was sent to set the record straight, he'd be rejected by the vast majority.
I dunno.
Someone shows up and starts defying the laws of physics by parting the nearest large body of water and I might be inclined to hear the man out. Not saying I'd believe everything he says, but I think that'd be worthy of letting him bend my ear for a little bit.
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A man with a dam can impress you huh?
Ramyrez said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I said this a while back, but I'm under the impression that most Christian faiths are so far removed from the original teachings that even if some legitimate modern-day Moses was sent to set the record straight, he'd be rejected by the vast majority.
I dunno.
Someone shows up and starts defying the laws of physics by parting the nearest large body of water and I might be inclined to hear the man out. Not saying I'd believe everything he says, but I think that'd be worthy of letting him bend my ear for a little bit.
Ha. But keep in mind, it doesn't always happen in that order. Noah was all like "Listen up, yo." And the people were all like "No." And then they drowned.
(inb4 we get into another huge argument about whether or not the flood literally happened)
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A spiritual flood.
They were flooded with feelings.
They were flooded with feelings.
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
A man with a dam can impress you huh?
I said defying physics. Not using them advantageously!
fonewear said: »
I bet George W Bush was behind the flood !
My money is on Nixon.
I mean, gates for water and all.
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Don't worry when ISIS takes over America we will all have to learn about some guy named Muhammad ! I'm pretty sure I met Muhammad he works at the 7/11 down the street !
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
(inb4 we get into another huge argument about whether or not the flood literally happened)
Did we have this one already?
I thought it was fairly widely accepted that at some point in history there was massive flooding of at least the "known" world in that area of the planet at the time from which the Great Flood story was born. Hence its near omnipresence in so many religions in that portion of the globe through the centuries.
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I said this a while back, but I'm under the impression that most Christian faiths are so far removed from the original teachings that even if some legitimate modern-day Moses was sent to set the record straight, he'd be rejected by the vast majority.
I'm uncertain why you:
1. Think that anyone short of the creator God himself should be taken verbatim. Legends are always exaggerations of facts and people rightly *should* be suspicious of 'great' prophets. Just look at the reverence for the Founding Fathers in America and what people do to downplay any flaws they may have had.
The Bible goes out of its way to beware false prophets because even the authors back then knew how easily people could be swayed.
If God has a point or wants to set the record, slap on that Infinity Gauntlet and get Oprah to handle the interview.
Further, the stories from 3000 years ago sound fantastic but just imagine how ancient people would describe you, using an electronic device pinging signals across the globe from a handheld device effortlessly?
Religion isn't immune from time, the teachings and emphasis' have changed along with the times.
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fonewear said: »
I bet George W Bush was behind the flood !
They misunderestimated him.
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I learned all I need to know about Christianity from some Atheist guy on the street !
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I said this a while back, but I'm under the impression that most Christian faiths are so far removed from the original teachings that even if some legitimate modern-day Moses was sent to set the record straight, he'd be rejected by the vast majority.
I'm uncertain why you:
1. Think that anyone short of the creator God himself should be taken verbatim. Legends are always exaggerations of facts and people rightly *should* be suspicious of 'great' prophets. Just look at the reverence for the Founding Fathers in America and what people do to downplay any flaws they may have had.
The Bible goes out of its way to beware false prophets because even the authors back then knew how easily people could be swayed.
If God has a point or wants to set the record, slap on that Infinity Gauntlet and get Oprah to handle the interview.
Further, the stories from 3000 years ago sound fantastic but just imagine how ancient people would describe you, using an electronic device pinging signals across the globe from a handheld device effortlessly?
Religion isn't immune from time, the teachings and emphasis' have changed along with the times.
Uh, the Bible says to beware false prophets, not real ones. Considering that prophets (supposedly) wrote a lot of it, and that God (supposedly) has used them to get his word across since the beginning because revealing himself would completely destroy the point of faith, I don't see how we're magically beyond that now because, uh, technology I guess?
Ramyrez said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
(inb4 we get into another huge argument about whether or not the flood literally happened)
Did we have this one already?
I thought it was fairly widely accepted that at some point in history there was massive flooding of at least the "known" world in that area of the planet at the time from which the Great Flood story was born. Hence its near omnipresence in so many religions in that portion of the globe through the centuries.
It mostly devolved into an argument about who stole the idea from who, as if that were provable or relevant.
Bacon is terrible unless you get that kosher bacon that stuff is amazing !
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Pls, I'm too tired to make jew jokes today.
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Ramyrez said: »
Jassik said: »
I'm saying that there are pretty clear inconsistencies in the biblical accounts of many historic events yet it's constantly regarded by Christians as a historically accurate account of the time
Even I am going to stop you there. With the exception of a few of the old school priests I knew in my youth (and yes, one of them was, in fact, rumored to be one of 'those' priests), of the frocked and otherwise ordained friends I have, not one of them thinks the Bible, either book, is to be taken 100% literally.
It is simply not the position any reasonable, thinking human being in the 21st century can take, even if you largely believe in the divinity of Christ and the like.
Biblical literalists aren't the minority according to various polls. So, either they're not reasonable thinking humans (arguable) or they purposefully overlook the contradictions. Either way, don't pretend that they are very rare.
fonewear said: »
I learned all I need to know about Christianity from some Atheist guy on the street !
The best places to learn about anything are never from anyone fervently rallies for or against it.
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Uh, the Bible says to beware false prophets, not real ones. Considering that prophets (supposedly) wrote a lot of it, and that God (supposedly) has used them to get his word across since the beginning because revealing himself would completely destroy the point of faith, I don't see how we're magically beyond that now because, uh, technology I guess?
Everyone who has ever believed in a false prophet believed they were communicating with a legitimate prophet. How exactly do gauge who's the real deal and who's a charlatan? Your own personal metrics? Displays of power? Feels?
Lots of people have claimed to be Jesus.
Lots of people claimed to be the promised Messiah.
Lots of people claim to be God's frontman.
No one can agree because it's impossible to objectively say 'this dudes Jesus/Messiah/the 'one'' and be done with it. All that's left is faith and well, that's how you get played by those looking to prey on the faithful. You just kinda have to hope your guess is better than everyone elses across all history.
Again, the only way you can know for sure is God to show up. And he better not ask for a starship.
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Jassik said: »
Biblical literalists aren't the minority according to various polls. So, either they're not reasonable thinking humans (arguable) or they purposefully overlook the contradictions. Either way, don't pretend that they are very rare.
They're rare outside of the Bible Belt (though their numbers have grown in the past century, unfortunately), and even inside of it while they may be the rule, there are plenty of exceptions.
I just don't think saying "Christians" and encompassing the entirety of the world's biggest religion is accurate is all I'm saying.
Ramyrez said: »
Jassik said: »
Biblical literalists aren't the minority according to various polls. So, either they're not reasonable thinking humans (arguable) or they purposefully overlook the contradictions. Either way, don't pretend that they are very rare.
They're increasingly rare outside of the Bible Belt, and even inside of it while they may be the rule, there are plenty of exceptions.
I just don't think saying "Christians" and encompassing the entirety of the world's biggest religion is accurate is all I'm saying.
I don't believe I referred to them as such. Christianity is increasingly perverted into all manner of mainstream and cultish mutations that have less to do with the fellowship of Jesus. Given the way Christianity is viewed in the US, you could probably slap it on anything and it would sell.
Eh. That's how I read it but my heart isn't in nitpicking today, so I'll just agree that you intended it differently than I read it.
Because 'Jesus' is just a reflection of your own desires bolstered by the cult of power around a historical figure.
In this sense, Jesus can be both gun toting maniac, a black guy from Africa, a ruthless Gordon Gekko capitalist, a Bob Ross hippie and that hobo who begs quarters in your local rail station.
In this sense, Jesus can be both gun toting maniac, a black guy from Africa, a ruthless Gordon Gekko capitalist, a Bob Ross hippie and that hobo who begs quarters in your local rail station.
Ramyrez said: »
Eh. That's how I read it but my heart isn't in nitpicking today, so I'll just agree that you intended it differently than I read it.
Nah, I was just remarking on how few people within the faith are aware of the inconsistencies that should be pretty apparent from just reading the book. Even the old testament, two different creation stories are told back to back that contradict each other and nobody seems to notice.
Jassik said: »
American Christianity is increasingly perverted into all manner of mainstream and cultish mutations that have less to do with the fellowship of Jesus.
Pope Francis and everything he has done pretty much contradicts this statement. He is really trying to get everyone back on board to becoming merciful, humble, etc. It's really unfair to the rest of the Christian community that the bad eggs in America give everyone else a bad name.
Additionally, he is really inline with Neo-Christianity. He understands the Bible isn't meant to be taken verbatim and it's really a book for fables, hence why he's accepted The Big Bang Theory and Evolution.
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Jassik said: »
American Christianity is increasingly perverted into all manner of mainstream and cultish mutations that have less to do with the fellowship of Jesus.
Pope Francis and everything he has done pretty much contradicts this statement. He is really trying to get everyone back on board to becoming merciful, humble, etc. It's really unfair to the rest of the Christian community that the bad eggs in America give everyone else a bad name.
Additionally, he is really inline with Neo-Christianity. He understands the Bible isn't meant to be taken verbatim and it's really a book for fables, hence why he's accepted The Big Bang Theory and Evolution.
Why do you always consider the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church to be the center of Christianity? Sure, Frank is pretty forward thinking, it's nice to have a religious figure speaking common sense, but he is by far and away NOT the leader of the Christian faith. American variants of Christianity are also world variants. LDS, JW, Menonites, etc... All are worldwide denominations. Plus non-denominational Christian is a HUGE chunk as well.
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Jassik said: »
Why do you always consider the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church to be the center of Christianity?
Because it's not just Catholics who hold respect for him.
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Uh, the Bible says to beware false prophets, not real ones. Considering that prophets (supposedly) wrote a lot of it, and that God (supposedly) has used them to get his word across since the beginning because revealing himself would completely destroy the point of faith, I don't see how we're magically beyond that now because, uh, technology I guess?
Everyone who has ever believed in a false prophet believed they were communicating with a legitimate prophet. How exactly do gauge who's the real deal and who's a charlatan? Your own personal metrics? Displays of power? Feels?
Lots of people have claimed to be Jesus.
Lots of people claimed to be the promised Messiah.
Lots of people claim to be God's frontman.
No one can agree because it's impossible to objectively say 'this dudes Jesus/Messiah/the 'one'' and be done with it. All that's left is faith and well, that's how you get played by those looking to prey on the faithful. You just kinda have to hope your guess is better than everyone elses across all history.
Again, the only way you can know for sure is God to show up. And he better not ask for a starship.
Matthew 7:15-20
Quote:
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Again, conversing as if real prophets are actually a thing, it's not impossible to tell the difference without a huge sign from God. It takes careful consideration and a close review of their works, but there is a way to tell. If Noah is any indication, you can't pull the "But I had no way of knowing" card, and miraculous sign-seeking doesn't always lead to good results, Biblically speaking.
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Jassik said: »
Why do you always consider the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church to be the center of Christianity?
Because it's not just Catholics who hold respect for him.
There's a big difference between respecting someone and holding them as the figurehead for all of Christianity.
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