Random Politics & Religion #00

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2010-09-08
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Random Politics & Religion #00
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By fonewear 2015-06-08 13:58:44
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If I had kids I'd care about the future of education but I don't so there ya go !
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By Siren.Mosin 2015-06-08 13:59:47
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fonewear said: »
If I had kids I'd cared about the future of education but I don't so there ya go !

you're the prime example of why we should all be worried about the decaying state of education in america.
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By fonewear 2015-06-08 14:00:28
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Siren.Mosin said: »
fonewear said: »
If I had kids I'd cared about the future of education but I don't so there ya go !

you're the prime example of why we should all be worried about the decaying state of education in america.

Don't worry Hillary has a plan ! I don't know what it is but I'm sure it is good.
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By fonewear 2015-06-08 14:06:14
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I'm sure America is the only country in the world with a decaying state of education...
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-06-08 14:06:21
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
And yet somehow the "Common Core" is seen as an abomination to people on opposite political ends. The government sucks at sweeping reform, and it has proven it time and time again.
Because, at least for the common core maths, people are confusing what with how.
As in, they don't specify a method for teaching how to teach a method to solve a problem, but require that the students learn a particular method for solving a problem.

Rather than having a goal for solving a problem, and leaving it to the teacher to present different methods, based on the student's affinity for a particular method.
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By fonewear 2015-06-08 14:11:07
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When you solve the American education system will someone please notify me. I'd love to see the solution !
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By Ramyrez 2015-06-08 14:13:47
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fonewear said: »
When you solve the American education system will someone please notify me. I'd love to see the solution !

Sterilize everyone. It becomes a non-issue in approximately 18 years.
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By fonewear 2015-06-08 14:14:20
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Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
When you solve the American education system will someone please notify me. I'd love to see the solution !

Sterilize everyone. It becomes a non-issue in approximately 18 years.

First solution I've read that makes sense !
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-06-08 14:15:14
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fonewear said: »
When you solve the American education system will someone please notify me. I'd love to see the solution !
Ban reality TV, and show your work.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-08 14:16:07
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Social mobility or not, politicians care about this little thing called reelection. If your state guts education, you can elect better leaders.

Have you looked at state elections recently? A large portion run unopposed, even more only ever face minor competition, and the rest just rework the districts at will to curb any chance of competition.

Yeah, and how many of those states have gutted education to the degree Ramy is so afraid of? If you're so gung-ho about passing off control of education to a centralized government, you're going to have to do more than scare people with hypotheticals.
Again I'm baffled, as a libertarian, shouldn't he see the problem of state legislators do a bad job as having the solution of elect better state legislatures"? Nope he says that because you can't trust the state, we outta instead give oversight to the feds where instead of driving the 10 year old minivan of a state government, we're driving the 50 year old 18 wheeler.

The solution to this shitty big state government where nothing gets done is an even bigger shittier federal government!.

I've made it clear more than once that curriculum should be separated from legislation and determined by a national council of educators and academics. We already do this for post-compulsory education regionally. Standardizing curriculum based on what educators and academics agree upon and leaving the DoE and local statehouses to determine funding is one way to distance education from politics and patch some of the cracks in our current system.

If you choose to continue to misinterpret my words, that is on you.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-06-08 14:17:51
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fonewear said: »
When you solve the American education system will someone please notify me. I'd love to see the solution !

Outsource teaching to Central America, Mexico and the Phillipines.

It works for everything else.
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By fonewear 2015-06-08 14:21:12
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
fonewear said: »
When you solve the American education system will someone please notify me. I'd love to see the solution !
Ban reality TV, and show your work.

Ban reality TV might as well ban TV in general then !
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By fonewear 2015-06-08 14:21:32
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
fonewear said: »
When you solve the American education system will someone please notify me. I'd love to see the solution !

Outsource teaching to Central America, Mexico and the Phillipines.

It works for everything else.

They have schools in Mexico that is news to me !
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-06-08 14:23:11
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Again I say, just privatize everything, right?

That could never go wrong.

The examples of capitalism gone wrong only exist in movies (fantasy). Meanwhile the examples of communism gone wrong are numerous and plenty.

Spoken like someone who was asleep during history class. Ironic considering you now want to educate us on how to fix education.

Are you sure you're not a politician?
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By volkom 2015-06-08 14:24:15
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I have a coworker who's son was being taught common core. From the parent-teacher conferences he had to attend about his child's learning problems and what he showed me what common core techniques were being taught i was deeply disappointed and confused as to the teaching style.

So for example.

YouTube Video Placeholder



In other problems I was explained to, they used blocks to represent units/numbers. And the kids would have to draw it out on paper.
I can understand for a visualization of large numbers and using blocks but... its a huge time waster.
Can you imagine you're given a problem and asked to find out what 23+58 is by drawing block 1x1 blocks?
[][][][][][]
[][][][][][]
[][][][][][] = 20
[][][][][][]

[][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][] = 50
[][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][]

[][][] = 3
[][][][][][][][] = 8

Then I gotta add the 20 blocks to the 50 blocks... and draw another picture... and you get the idea...
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By fonewear 2015-06-08 14:24:52
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volkom said: »
I have a coworker who's son was being taught common core. From the parent-teacher conferences he had to attend about his child's learning problems and what he showed me what common core techniques were being taught i was deeply disappointed and confused as to the teaching style.

So for example.

YouTube Video Placeholder



In other problems I was explained to, they used blocks to represent units/numbers. And the kids would have to draw it out on paper.
I can understand for a visualization of large numbers and using blocks but... its a huge time waster.
Can you imagine you're given a problem and asked to find out what 23+58 is by drawing block 1x1 blocks?
[][][][][][]
[][][][][][]
[][][][][][] = 20
[][][][][][]

[][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][] = 50
[][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][]

[][][] = 3
[][][][][][][][] = 8

Then I gotta add the 20 blocks to the 50 blocks... and draw another picture... and you get the idea...

I'm an American you are going to have to dumb this down so I can understand it !
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-06-08 14:26:30
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Put it between two all-pink slime patties, slather it in the tears of third world nations and off-brand mayonnaise. Then deep fry it in freedom.
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By fonewear 2015-06-08 14:27:22
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Adding 8 plus 5 shouldn't take as long as it did in the video...
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By fonewear 2015-06-08 14:28:54
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Why would they implement a method to make adding one digit numbers that complex for a child...

They way math will be done in the future is of course:

Google 8 plus 5 =
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-08 14:31:08
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That's one of the biggest problems with common core. It's supposed to be a standard, not a methodology. The Math section is problematic, to say the least. What should be the focus is not the method for figuring out 8+5, as there are many different methods that work better for some people or situations, but when that math is taught.

There's no good reason to be teaching multiplication tables in 1st grade in one district and 3rd in another or require world history in one district and only US in another.
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-06-08 14:39:29
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volkom said: »
I have a coworker who's son was being taught common core. From the parent-teacher conferences he had to attend about his child's learning problems and what he showed me what common core techniques were being taught i was deeply disappointed and confused as to the teaching style.

So for example.

YouTube Video Placeholder



In other problems I was explained to, they used blocks to represent units/numbers. And the kids would have to draw it out on paper.
I can understand for a visualization of large numbers and using blocks but... its a huge time waster.
Can you imagine you're given a problem and asked to find out what 23+58 is by drawing block 1x1 blocks?
[][][][][][]
[][][][][][]
[][][][][][] = 20
[][][][][][]

[][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][] = 50
[][][][][][][][][][]
[][][][][][][][][][]

[][][] = 3
[][][][][][][][] = 8

Then I gotta add the 20 blocks to the 50 blocks... and draw another picture... and you get the idea...
Blocks(objects) are a pretty good way of visualizing numbers (comparative scaling). It's a pretty inefficient way of calculating numbers (when drawing on paper).
I understand what is *trying* to be accomplished by visualizing blocks, but at a minimum you would want to scale the blocks to reduce the sheer amount of drawing (e.g. 10, 5, 1).

Or just give them a goddamn abacus, since that is what you are trying to convey.
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By Ramyrez 2015-06-08 14:44:13
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There we go. Teach 'em to use a slide rule again!
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By Bahamut.Omael 2015-06-08 14:47:37
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Ramyrez said: »
There we go. Teach 'em to use a slide rule again!

Once you figure it out, you're golden.

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By volkom 2015-06-08 14:50:42
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Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Blocks(objects) are a pretty good way of visualizing numbers (comparative scaling). It's a pretty inefficient way of calculating numbers (when drawing on paper).
I understand what is *trying* to be accomplished by visualizing blocks, but at a minimum you would want to scale the blocks to reduce the sheer amount of drawing (e.g. 10, 5, 1).

Or just give them a goddamn abacus, since that is what you are trying to convey.

Right? I understand that part though but when teachers are asking the students to work the problem in a particular method or its wrong and they're forced to basically draw blocks on paper its a huge waste of time. There's schools in my area that are having to reteach 6th graders multiplication tables and stuff because elementary schools seem to want to dumb down their students so they do worse on the state tests so they can get additional funding
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-06-08 14:53:59
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Ok, I hate the way our educational system is set-up in the US. I had a different upbringing than, I think, many in this thread have had. The non-constant standards throughout the US are beyond annoying for those who have gone to multiple schools.

We are a country that encourages people to move for work (beyond just military families) whether that is across the same state (moving between cities or counties) or across state lines.

However, with this encouraging of moving (which I agree with for a variety of reasons and opportunities) this means parents are changing schools with their children. We need some baseline for each grade. Not a step-by-step per-year requirement, but something where everyone is on the same page (e.g. Multiplication and division taught in second grade in every school).

Some of my experiences:

On this forum we've encountered a variety of differences in education. Off the top if my head:
-People not knowing France was an ally of the US during the American Revolution
-Horrible grammar and spelling from native speakers

Having a baseline would be helpful, and from what I have seen of Core, that is not the right baseline. We also need to stay with something for longer than an election cycle.

People who don't have children this still affects you. Who is going to work for you, buy your goods/services, sell you goods/services, help increase your quality of life as you age (scientific, medical, technological breakthroughs) if the generations growing up behind you fall behind or cannot get work because they don't have the qualifications?
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By fonewear 2015-06-08 14:55:47
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Who is going to sell me goods or services I'll tell you who robots !
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By Ramyrez 2015-06-08 14:56:13
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fonewear said: »
Who is going to sell me goods or services I'll tell you who robots !

The robots are going to make you a good to be serviced...
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By Bahamut.Omael 2015-06-08 14:56:39
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
People who don't have children this still affects you. Who is going to work for you, buy your goods/services, sell you goods/services, help increase your quality of life as you age (scientific, medical, technological breakthroughs) if the generations growing up behind you fall behind or cannot get work because they don't have the qualifications?

Robots built by China?
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By fonewear 2015-06-08 14:56:45
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Don't worry someone has to supervisor the robots. There will still be jobs in the future !
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By fonewear 2015-06-08 14:57:31
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Bahamut.Omael said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
People who don't have children this still affects you. Who is going to work for you, buy your goods/services, sell you goods/services, help increase your quality of life as you age (scientific, medical, technological breakthroughs) if the generations growing up behind you fall behind or cannot get work because they don't have the qualifications?

Robots built by China?

*** let's just move to China and be done with it !
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