U.S. Climate Has Already Changed, Study Finds

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U.S. Climate Has Already Changed, Study Finds
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:04:00
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Jetackuu said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
You have to prove god doesn't exist in order to do that.
I don't want to jump to the conclusion that you might be stupid, so I'll ask you if you are just trying to provoke..
Provoke a different way of thinking sure. As you cannot prove a negative, only poke holes in it at best. Asking someone to disprove something that they themselves cannot prove makes no sense.
But that's the foundation of the scientific model, all of the collective work is "current understanding until proven otherwise" that's how it works.

I'll still take the collective scientific community' word on something, even if they may be wrong, than a group of quack scientists who are in the pockets of big oil.
Then prove god doesn't exist then.
You read but aren't listening.

The two aren't even comparable, the one has evidence backing up it's claims, the other uses circular logic.

You claim to try to provoke thought, but about the best you're accomplishing is annoying trolling. There's better ways to go about it.
14 pages of inconclusive evidence is barely backing anything up. It's all alarmist material. Nothing even remotely concrete.

Are the ice caps melting?

All you're doing right now is jumping on the bandwagon.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-13 12:04:50
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
I'm sure some do, but our friend here is asserting that the whole scientific community pushing for a false agenda in order to get rich, not just some.
Some don't even know they're being led astray. Their hearts and/or minds might be in the right place, but their basic assumption dates back to ideas that originated over a 100 years ago. Well before the drastic increase of CO2. So what were their intention back then? We may never know.
You can't even articulate why you think the science is wrong here. All you can do is insist that it is. Sorry, that's worthless.
I never said science is wrong. Science has neither an absolute wrong or right. It's always changing to explain that which was unexplainable.
Don't backpedal. You've consistently used terms like 'hoax' and 'scam' in your posts here yet you can't lay out why it's so. Hell, you don't even know what AGW stands for, but we're supposed to believe you're in a position to know more than actual experts in the field. That's a pretty big sign the propaganda has got you pretty good.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:06:08
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Give me a multimillion dollar research grant and I'll prove whatever you want.
If people really think like this I wonder why we do any research at all ever... because it appears that people given grant money just come back and say whatever the hell they want to just to get the moneys...

Or is this just the case with global warming/climate change?
It depends who funds the study. What their network of peers is like, etc.

People attack any study the Koch brothers fund, yet Al Gore can fund anything he wants and have it be truth.

You can fund and research all you want, but unless you have something to show for all the research it's just another money/time sink.

At best global warming research has just given politicians something to argue about, rather than come to any agreement on how to fix anything remotely important to the way society or the economy is ran.
there seem to be plenty of ideas to help fix this situation. Most just revolve around passing bills that will never go through as industry and many other people don't want to do it lol.

If you're talking about developing a cure all device well we could be waiting forever for that. We still ahven't solved the riddles that plague the human body no matter how many billions have been thrown at it.

Fix the situation! But don't study it thouroughly... don't make anything more expensive and don't do anything that could possibly change anything in my own life!
They've been studying global warming since the 60's. How much more research is needed?
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-05-13 12:07:30
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Give me a multimillion dollar research grant and I'll prove whatever you want.
If people really think like this I wonder why we do any research at all ever... because it appears that people given grant money just come back and say whatever the hell they want to just to get the moneys...

Or is this just the case with global warming/climate change?
It depends who funds the study. What their network of peers is like, etc.

People attack any study the Koch brothers fund, yet Al Gore can fund anything he wants and have it be truth.

You can fund and research all you want, but unless you have something to show for all the research it's just another money/time sink.

At best global warming research has just given politicians something to argue about, rather than come to any agreement on how to fix anything remotely important to the way society or the economy is ran.
there seem to be plenty of ideas to help fix this situation. Most just revolve around passing bills that will never go through as industry and many other people don't want to do it lol.

If you're talking about developing a cure all device well we could be waiting forever for that. We still ahven't solved the riddles that plague the human body no matter how many billions have been thrown at it.

Fix the situation! But don't study it thouroughly... don't make anything more expensive and don't do anything that could possibly change anything in my own life!
They've been studying global warming since the 60's. How much more research is needed?
They've been studying cancer since before that.... should we just stop now?
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-13 12:08:47
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
They've been studying global warming since the 60's. How much more research is needed?
Ok, you're just trolling. No one can be this dumb. Saves me the effort of trying to reply to you.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:08:54
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
I'm sure some do, but our friend here is asserting that the whole scientific community pushing for a false agenda in order to get rich, not just some.
Some don't even know they're being led astray. Their hearts and/or minds might be in the right place, but their basic assumption dates back to ideas that originated over a 100 years ago. Well before the drastic increase of CO2. So what were their intention back then? We may never know.
You can't even articulate why you think the science is wrong here. All you can do is insist that it is. Sorry, that's worthless.
I never said science is wrong. Science has neither an absolute wrong or right. It's always changing to explain that which was unexplainable.
Don't backpedal. You've consistently used terms like 'hoax' and 'scam' in your posts here yet you can't lay out why it's so. Hell, you don't even know what AGW stands for, but we're supposed to believe you're in a position to know more than actual experts in the field. That's a pretty big sign the propaganda has got you pretty good.
Carbon credits are a scam, yes.
How that translates into saying science is a scam is beyond me.

Uh noes, I don't know what a specific acronym stands for, I must not posses any intellect to discuss the matter!
 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-05-13 12:10:07
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Are you fone? I've had this suspicion for awhile now that you're just fone on another account.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:11:12
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Give me a multimillion dollar research grant and I'll prove whatever you want.
If people really think like this I wonder why we do any research at all ever... because it appears that people given grant money just come back and say whatever the hell they want to just to get the moneys...

Or is this just the case with global warming/climate change?
It depends who funds the study. What their network of peers is like, etc.

People attack any study the Koch brothers fund, yet Al Gore can fund anything he wants and have it be truth.

You can fund and research all you want, but unless you have something to show for all the research it's just another money/time sink.

At best global warming research has just given politicians something to argue about, rather than come to any agreement on how to fix anything remotely important to the way society or the economy is ran.
there seem to be plenty of ideas to help fix this situation. Most just revolve around passing bills that will never go through as industry and many other people don't want to do it lol.

If you're talking about developing a cure all device well we could be waiting forever for that. We still ahven't solved the riddles that plague the human body no matter how many billions have been thrown at it.

Fix the situation! But don't study it thouroughly... don't make anything more expensive and don't do anything that could possibly change anything in my own life!
They've been studying global warming since the 60's. How much more research is needed?
They've been studying cancer since before that.... should we just stop now?
The advances in cancer treatment are well documented. And above all have real world results.
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-05-13 12:11:44
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Studies have been done on various types of cancers, some which are genetic and require a catalyst, and others which are caused by external factors.

Very little, if any real progress has been made since the studies have been originally conducted.

There have been plants found, which are now extinct, or on the brink of extinction, that could have cured some cancers completely, if the body could accept it in medicinal form.

Citrus fruits have been known, for example, to prevent and cure scurvy since the 1700's.

Edit: I'm not saying that the treatments for cancer aren't beneficial or well documented, just saying that the progress hasn't been all that great since the foundation of it's studies.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-13 12:12:35
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I don't know what IRA stands for but I'm pretty sure I know more than your investment banker.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:14:58
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Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
AGW: Anthropogenic Global Warming - human induced global warming.
Based on the original formula from ~1896 it doesn't seem nearly as close as they still speculate today using those same formulas.

Meaning, the .8C change to temperature is a lot low if you were to use the original formulas that climate scientists still use today.

Why have they not fixed the formula then?
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:18:43
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Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
Studies have been done on various types of cancers, some which are genetic and require a catalyst, and others which are caused by external factors.

Very little, if any real progress has been made since the studies have been originally conducted.

There have been plants found, which are now extinct, or on the brink of extinction, that could have cured some cancers completely, if the body could accept it in medicinal form.

Citrus fruits have been known, for example, to prevent and cure scurvy since the 1700's.

Edit: I'm not saying that the treatments for cancer aren't beneficial or well documented, just saying that the progress hasn't been all that great since the foundation of it's studies.
You really can't cure cancer, just treat it after the fact. The research has indicted that there are certain catalysts that can be counteracted with life style change. It's not 100% obviously, as nothing really is. But it's one of those things where you can take steps, find out if your genetics may carry a catalyst, and adjust accordingly.
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-05-13 12:19:12
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There's a global warming formula now?
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:19:30
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
I don't know what IRA stands for but I'm pretty sure I know more than your investment banker.
Highly doubt it.
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-05-13 12:20:35
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
It's not 100% obviously, as nothing really is.

There are many illnesses that we can treat 100%.

Doesn't your lack of scientific knowledge ever give you a pause and get you to think that you should stop talking about science?
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-13 12:21:36
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
I don't know what IRA stands for but I'm pretty sure I know more than your investment banker.
Highly doubt it.
Give the humor in this exchange a moment to sink in.
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 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-05-13 12:23:42
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It's safer to say that AGW is more about Human enhanced global warming, due the over-population of people on earth - which is more than what it was designed to handle.

Humans, based on the theories and evidence provided, have been playing a much larger role in aiding global warming (rather than causing it, because the earth has gone through thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of cycles of global warming) in recent years due to the airborne pollutants being produced since the industrial revolution.

We've cut down massive amounts of rainforests, which served as a carbon filter, and exuded oxygen as a by product of photosynthesis for farm and factory land for immediate human sustainability.

Now, we've come to accept we have a lasting environmental impact, and have begun working to reduce emissions, but also on technology to curtail and nullify waste by finding ways to recycle it.
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-05-13 12:25:38
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
Studies have been done on various types of cancers, some which are genetic and require a catalyst, and others which are caused by external factors.

Very little, if any real progress has been made since the studies have been originally conducted.

There have been plants found, which are now extinct, or on the brink of extinction, that could have cured some cancers completely, if the body could accept it in medicinal form.

Citrus fruits have been known, for example, to prevent and cure scurvy since the 1700's.

Edit: I'm not saying that the treatments for cancer aren't beneficial or well documented, just saying that the progress hasn't been all that great since the foundation of it's studies.
You really can't cure cancer, just treat it after the fact. The research has indicted that there are certain catalysts that can be counteracted with life style change. It's not 100% obviously, as nothing really is. But it's one of those things where you can take steps, find out if your genetics may carry a catalyst, and adjust accordingly.
No, there have literally been plants and certain plant sterols that have completely eliminated cancer cells as part of cancer research, that are now extinct due to the destruction of their habitats.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:25:48
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
There's a global warming formula now?

Quote:
Arrhenius developed a theory to explain the ice ages, and in 1896 he was the first scientist to attempt to calculate how changes in the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere could alter the surface temperature through the greenhouse effect. He was influenced by the work of others, including Joseph Fourier and John Tyndall. Arrhenius used the infrared observations of the moon by Frank Washington Very and Samuel Pierpont Langley at the Allegheny Observatory in Pittsburgh to calculate the absorption of infrared radiation by atmospheric CO2 and water vapour. Using 'Stefan's law' (better known as the Stefan-Boltzmann law), he formulated his greenhouse law. In its original form, Arrhenius' greenhouse law reads as follows:

if the quantity of carbonic acid [CO2] increases in geometric progression, the augmentation of the temperature will increase nearly in arithmetic progression.

The following equivalent formulation of Arrhenius' greenhouse law is still used today:

ΔF = α Ln(C/C_0)

Here C is carbon dioxide (CO2) concentration measured in parts per million by volume (ppmv); C_0 denotes a baseline or unperturbed concentration of CO2, and ΔF is the radiative forcing, measured in watts per square meter. The constant alpha (α) has been assigned a value between five and seven.
Arrhenius at the first Solvay conference on chemistry in 1922 in Brussels.

Based on information from his colleague Arvid Högbom (sv), Arrhenius was the first person to predict that emissions of carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels and other combustion processes were large enough to cause global warming. In his calculation Arrhenius included the feedback from changes in water vapor as well as latitudinal effects, but he omitted clouds, convection of heat upward in the atmosphere, and other essential factors. His work is currently seen less as an accurate prediction of global warming than as the first demonstration that it should be taken as a serious possibility.

Arrhenius' absorption values for CO2 and his conclusions met criticism by Knut Ångström in 1900, who published the first modern infrared spectrum of CO2 with two absorption bands, and published experimental results that seemed to show that absorption of infrared radiation by the gas in the atmosphere was already "saturated" so that adding more could make no difference. Arrhenius replied strongly in 1901 (Annalen der Physik), dismissing the critique altogether. He touched the subject briefly in a technical book titled Lehrbuch der kosmischen Physik (1903). He later wrote Världarnas utveckling (1906) (German: Das Werden der Welten [1907], English: Worlds in the Making [1908]) directed at a general audience, where he suggested that the human emission of CO2 would be strong enough to prevent the world from entering a new ice age, and that a warmer earth would be needed to feed the rapidly increasing population:
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-13 12:26:21
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Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
It's safer to say that AGW is more about Human enhanced global warming, due the over-population of people on earth - which is more than what it was designed to handle.

Humans, based on the theories and evidence provided, have been playing a much larger role in aiding global warming (rather than causing it, because the earth has gone through thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of cycles of global warming) in recent years due to the airborne pollutants being produced since the industrial revolution.

We've cut down massive amounts of rainforests, which served as a carbon filter, and exuded oxygen as a by product of photosynthesis for farm and factory land for immediate human sustainability.

Now, we've come to accept we have a lasting environmental impact, and have begun working to reduce emissions, but also on technology to curtail and nullify waste by finding ways to recycle it.
Human activity is the direct cause of the current climate trend. There's no need to pussyfoot around it. The rest is fair.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-05-13 12:26:47
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Fairly recent discovery in the fight against cancer no need for doom speeches.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:28:00
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
It's not 100% obviously, as nothing really is.

There are many illnesses that we can treat 100%.

Doesn't your lack of scientific knowledge ever give you a pause and get you to think that you should stop talking about science?
Considering I get paid for technological steps in the advancement of computer science, I highly doubt it.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-05-13 12:29:34
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I don't believe in your technological advancement, I think you merely sold your values to some rich evil corporate.
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-05-13 12:29:36
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Computer Sciences =/= earth or chemical sciences.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:30:11
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Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
Studies have been done on various types of cancers, some which are genetic and require a catalyst, and others which are caused by external factors.

Very little, if any real progress has been made since the studies have been originally conducted.

There have been plants found, which are now extinct, or on the brink of extinction, that could have cured some cancers completely, if the body could accept it in medicinal form.

Citrus fruits have been known, for example, to prevent and cure scurvy since the 1700's.

Edit: I'm not saying that the treatments for cancer aren't beneficial or well documented, just saying that the progress hasn't been all that great since the foundation of it's studies.
You really can't cure cancer, just treat it after the fact. The research has indicted that there are certain catalysts that can be counteracted with life style change. It's not 100% obviously, as nothing really is. But it's one of those things where you can take steps, find out if your genetics may carry a catalyst, and adjust accordingly.
No, there have literally been plants and certain plant sterols that have completely eliminated cancer cells as part of cancer research, that are now extinct due to the destruction of their habitats.
Hey you learn something new everyday, lol.
But while it removes the cancerous cells, I still question the initial cause. That was kinda what I was referring to.
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-05-13 12:32:11
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They didn't just remove the cancerous cells, they removed the cancer cells themselves of certain types of cancers, meaning that the cancer could no longer spread since it would have been eliminated.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:33:10
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Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
Computer Sciences =/= earth or chemical sciences.
Yeah it's a lot more complex and requires a great amount of out of the box thinking in order to create a new box. Also involves a great deal of math too.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:33:51
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Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
They didn't just remove the cancerous cells, they removed the cancer cells themselves of certain types of cancers, meaning that the cancer could no longer spread since it would have been eliminated.
What caused that specific cancer then?
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-13 12:34:24
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
-pinches bridge of nose-

That equation describes the radiative forcing of carbon dioxide, which is a fundamental property of a greenhouse gas. It is not a "climate change equation".
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Doesn't your lack of scientific knowledge ever give you a pause and get you to think that you should stop talking about science?
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-05-13 12:35:04
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Actually, computer sciences are generally a lot less complicated than earth and chemical sciences.

While it does require a lot of out of the box thinking, it's still nowhere near as muddled as the previous or other sciences.
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