America's Tax Burden To Rise

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America's Tax Burden to Rise
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-02 15:39:49
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Who like taxes? Not the people who pay them, is always the quick answer. However a new article from CNN had this to say:
Quote:
The average American pays more in tax and social security than Canadians, Australians, the Japanese and the British.

But when you compare the American tax burden to other developed nations, the numbers don't look so bad.

New data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development compared tax rates and social security deductions on average incomes in 34 countries.

The data shows that Belgians, Germans and Danes have the highest tax burdens, while South Koreans, Mexicans and Chileans have the lowest. Americans are about in the middle.
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Further investigation into the report released from the OECD had this to say:

Quote:
Personal income tax has risen in 25 out of 34 OECD countries over the past three years, as countries reduce the value of tax-free allowances and tax credits and subject higher proportions of earnings to tax, according to new data in the annual Taxing Wages publication.
 
The increases in tax burdens on labour income in 2013 were largest in Portugal (due to higher statutory rates), the Slovak Republic (due to higher employer social security contributions) and the United States (due to expiry of previous reductions in employee social security contributions).
 
The average tax burden on employment incomes across the OECD increased by 0.2 of a percentage point in 2013, to 35.9 percent, according to the report. It increased in 21 out of 34 countries, fell in 12, and remained unchanged in one.
 
The 2013 rise follows a substantial increase in 2011 and a smaller one in 2012. Since 2010, the tax burden has increased in 21 OECD countries and fallen in 9, partially reversing the reductions seen between 2007 and 2010.
 
The new findings on income tax burdens are among the highlights of Taxing Wages 2014, which provides unique cross-country comparative data on income tax paid by employees as well as the associated social security contributions made by employees and employers; both are key factors when individuals consider their employment options and businesses make hiring decisions.
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With the world so intertwined economically today not paying taxes simply isn't a solution. But to be fair America's working class has had it pretty good when compared to other countries in the OECD. The joy ride may soon be over.

Quote:
While some might want to complain and even go as far as saying this will hurt the working class, across the board taxes on wages are not only on the rise, they will continue rise as well this year. Seemingly harmful, this will allow business to perhaps again be flexible to hire more labor as the income once again attempts to even disburse itself throughout the masses.

Cheer up, when everyone is taxed we all wind up winner in the end. It’s the fight against taxes that will ultimately harm you.
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Is there a solution to the increase in wage taxes for the working class? Or is this the solution we've been waiting for? Can higher taxes on labor once again bring prosperity to America's middle class?
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-05-02 16:08:38
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America's tax code is beyond saving at this point. An unholy union of social engineering and complex exclusions that require an army of lawyers to comply with.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-02 16:22:56
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It actually feels like underneath all that mess is emerging a sub tax code within international businesses. Rather than pay them to the government directly, you pay them to a company who then in turn uses that money to lobby, etc. There may be a light at the end of tunnel.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-02 16:47:48
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Obamacare, aka Affordable Health Care Act, may also play a part.

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We may soon go back to a model in which employers provide healthcare more as a perk than as a routine benefit, requiring workers to get insurance from other sources. That could save big companies up to $700 billion by 2025, according to a new report from S&P Capital IQ. It’s hard to think of any other single change that could save companies that much money, indicating how powerful the Affordable Care Act (ACA) could become once it has fully impacted the U.S. healthcare system.

S&P predicts that companies will do the math and find it irresistible to move more and more of their workers off company-run plans and into the exchanges established under Obamacare, as the ACA is known. Companies with more than 50 workers will have to pay a penalty if they don’t offer insurance, but it could still be cheaper when factoring in the savings on healthcare; that’s because insurance costs have skyrocketed during the last 20 years, making healthcare one of the costs companies find most difficult to control.
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If more and more companies opt for the penalty, they are in essences paying more taxes on behalf of their workforce.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-05-02 17:15:06
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The biggest thing left out of most of these kinds of articles is what you get in exchange for your tax dollars. Countries like Denmark pay some of the highest tax rates in the world, but what they get for those dollars is pretty amazing... things like completely free medical care, free post-compulsory education, real retirement benefits, tons of public services like free buses and subways, PAID MATERNITY AND PATERNITY LEAVE, PAID SHORT-TERM DISABILITY, nice smooth roads, etc.

I don't like paying what I do, not because of the percent of my income, but because of how much is wasted in unnecessary administrative costs, public official salaries, incredibly unhelpful or rude public service workers (DMV/SSI/etc), and my personal pet peeve... Paying 5 roadworks people to watch one work.


edit: and for all the hubbub about the sustainability of "welfare states", most of those countries are no less solvent or any more in debt than the US.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-05-02 17:34:31
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No one will touch the tax code. Far too many people benefit from the mess we have right now to advocate a rewrite from the ground up.
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By Jetackuu 2014-05-02 17:37:34
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Obamacare, aka Affordable Health Care Act, may also play a part.

Quote:
We may soon go back to a model in which employers provide healthcare more as a perk than as a routine benefit, requiring workers to get insurance from other sources. That could save big companies up to $700 billion by 2025, according to a new report from S&P Capital IQ. It’s hard to think of any other single change that could save companies that much money, indicating how powerful the Affordable Care Act (ACA) could become once it has fully impacted the U.S. healthcare system.

S&P predicts that companies will do the math and find it irresistible to move more and more of their workers off company-run plans and into the exchanges established under Obamacare, as the ACA is known. Companies with more than 50 workers will have to pay a penalty if they don’t offer insurance, but it could still be cheaper when factoring in the savings on healthcare; that’s because insurance costs have skyrocketed during the last 20 years, making healthcare one of the costs companies find most difficult to control.
Source

If more and more companies opt for the penalty, they are in essences paying more taxes on behalf of their workforce.
Fine by me, the companies offering insurance thing was stupid in the first place.
 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-05-02 17:43:42
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
No one will touch the tax code. Far too many people benefit from the mess we have right now to advocate a rewrite from the ground up.

And those powers that be provide you with all of your talking points to demonize those that speak of reforming it; like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-05-02 17:44:31
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Remember when that Presidential Candidate suggested the 9/9/9 plan? That's how serious we are about reforming taxes in America.

I mean psh, everyone knows you raise the taxes in cities to very high until potential unhappiness approaches riots then drop it back down to very low. Make sure to put a governor good with money to run the joint or you'll be seeing massive losses in income due to incompetence.

Also always keep your castles lightly taxed, wouldn't want your soldiers to go rogue forcing you to retake one of your own castles. When the Golden Horde shows up in 1230, prepare to spend all those florins to defend your territories.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-05-02 17:46:20
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
No one will touch the tax code. Far too many people benefit from the mess we have right now to advocate a rewrite from the ground up.

And those powers that be provide you with all of your talking points to demonize those that speak of reforming it; like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz.

Neither of those people give a crap about reforming the tax code in a way that actually effects PEOPLE positively. They're all about cutting entitlements and EITC.
 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-05-02 17:52:30
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
No one will touch the tax code. Far too many people benefit from the mess we have right now to advocate a rewrite from the ground up.

And those powers that be provide you with all of your talking points to demonize those that speak of reforming it; like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz.

Can you quote a time when either of them proposed a tax reform plan? I've only seen one person come forward with a plan in the last 5 years, and it was a republican from michigan, who was demonized by his own party.
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By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2014-05-02 17:59:58
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Odin.Jassik said: »
PAID MATERNITY AND PATERNITY LEAVE, PAID SHORT-TERM DISABILITY
Don't people already get paid enough for getting knocked up? There is no reason anyone should get paid for not doing their job. "Paid" is not the default position. "Not paid" is. You are not being made whole by keeping your income steady whether you work or not (no matter the justification). You are not being punished by not getting paid.

The very idea that people say "you couldn't lose money just because X", where X is something you did to yourself or that happened to you due to activities in your personal life is illustrative of one of the innate flaws of modern liberalism: you think you are owed something by other people. You think you are the children and we are the parents and that we are supposed to make sure you are kept alive, kept happy, and not hurt your feelings. When Denmark starts producing things of value despite propping up half its population, then you can start telling me we should be more like Denmark. Until then, have a Danish and sit down.
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By Jetackuu 2014-05-02 18:01:30
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Actually out of civilized modern nations we have a really short maternity leave, and unlike some others no paternity leave.

It's disturbing really.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-02 18:06:15
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Like they say the children are our future, unless is there no future left.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-02 18:06:50
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Now it's a thread!
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-05-02 18:10:23
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Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
PAID MATERNITY AND PATERNITY LEAVE, PAID SHORT-TERM DISABILITY
Don't people already get paid enough for getting knocked up? There is no reason anyone should get paid for not doing their job. "Paid" is not the default position. "Not paid" is. You are not being made whole by keeping your income steady whether you work or not (no matter the justification). You are not being punished by not getting paid.

The very idea that people say "you couldn't lose money just because X", where X is something you did to yourself or that happened to you due to activities in your personal life is illustrative of one of the innate flaws of modern liberalism: you think you are owed something by other people. You think you are the children and we are the parents and that we are supposed to make sure you are kept alive, kept happy, and not hurt your feelings. When Denmark starts producing things of value despite propping up half its population, then you can start telling me we should be more like Denmark. Until then, have a Danish and sit down.

As usual, you completely miss the point, and as usual, are incredibly wrong about the basis for your counterpoint. You might want to do some research on the economy of Denmark, considering we have 2 frequent posters who live in Denmark and are scholarly.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-02 18:10:49
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-02 18:15:28
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
PAID MATERNITY AND PATERNITY LEAVE, PAID SHORT-TERM DISABILITY
Don't people already get paid enough for getting knocked up? There is no reason anyone should get paid for not doing their job. "Paid" is not the default position. "Not paid" is. You are not being made whole by keeping your income steady whether you work or not (no matter the justification). You are not being punished by not getting paid.

The very idea that people say "you couldn't lose money just because X", where X is something you did to yourself or that happened to you due to activities in your personal life is illustrative of one of the innate flaws of modern liberalism: you think you are owed something by other people. You think you are the children and we are the parents and that we are supposed to make sure you are kept alive, kept happy, and not hurt your feelings. When Denmark starts producing things of value despite propping up half its population, then you can start telling me we should be more like Denmark. Until then, have a Danish and sit down.

As usual, you completely miss the point, and as usual, are incredibly wrong about the basis for your counterpoint. You might want to do some research on the economy of Denmark, considering we have 2 frequent posters who live in Denmark and are scholarly.
Let us summon forth the Danish Scholars on taxes. Arise!
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By fonewear 2014-05-02 18:23:02
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I'm not a tax expert but I stayed at Holiday Inn Express last night.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-02 18:24:16
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fonewear said: »
I'm no a tax expert but I stayed at Holiday Inn Express last night.
Ladies and gentleman, we have our expert.
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By fonewear 2014-05-02 18:25:00
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See you too can be an expert just watch the damn commercial.
 Fenrir.Camiie
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By Fenrir.Camiie 2014-05-02 18:46:25
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Odin.Jassik said: »
The biggest thing left out of most of these kinds of articles is what you get in exchange for your tax dollars. Countries like Denmark pay some of the highest tax rates in the world, but what they get for those dollars is pretty amazing... things like completely free medical care, free post-compulsory education, real retirement benefits, tons of public services like free buses and subways, PAID MATERNITY AND PATERNITY LEAVE, PAID SHORT-TERM DISABILITY, nice smooth roads, etc.

None of that it is really free unless you aren't paying in to the system. I'm not saying any of it is bad, but to call it free is rather misleading.
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By fonewear 2014-05-02 18:48:50
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You know what is free...love unless you sign up for eharmony then it is about 40 bucks a month.
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By Fenrir.Camiie 2014-05-02 18:50:13
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fonewear said: »
You know what is free...love unless you sign up for eharmony then it is about 40 bucks a month.

I'm pretty sure love is never free. That's what I hear anyway.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-05-02 18:50:42
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Fenrir.Camiie said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
The biggest thing left out of most of these kinds of articles is what you get in exchange for your tax dollars. Countries like Denmark pay some of the highest tax rates in the world, but what they get for those dollars is pretty amazing... things like completely free medical care, free post-compulsory education, real retirement benefits, tons of public services like free buses and subways, PAID MATERNITY AND PATERNITY LEAVE, PAID SHORT-TERM DISABILITY, nice smooth roads, etc.

None of that it is really free unless you aren't paying in to the system. I'm not saying any of it is bad, but to call it free is rather misleading.

When did I say anything about free? The point was what you get for your tax dollars.
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 Fenrir.Camiie
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By Fenrir.Camiie 2014-05-02 18:52:27
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Fenrir.Camiie said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
The biggest thing left out of most of these kinds of articles is what you get in exchange for your tax dollars. Countries like Denmark pay some of the highest tax rates in the world, but what they get for those dollars is pretty amazing... things like completely free medical care, free post-compulsory education, real retirement benefits, tons of public services like free buses and subways, PAID MATERNITY AND PATERNITY LEAVE, PAID SHORT-TERM DISABILITY, nice smooth roads, etc.

None of that it is really free unless you aren't paying in to the system. I'm not saying any of it is bad, but to call it free is rather misleading.

When did I say anything about free? The point was what you get for your tax dollars.

Highlighted that for you.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-05-02 18:57:04
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Fenrir.Camiie said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Fenrir.Camiie said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
The biggest thing left out of most of these kinds of articles is what you get in exchange for your tax dollars. Countries like Denmark pay some of the highest tax rates in the world, but what they get for those dollars is pretty amazing... things like completely free medical care, free post-compulsory education, real retirement benefits, tons of public services like free buses and subways, PAID MATERNITY AND PATERNITY LEAVE, PAID SHORT-TERM DISABILITY, nice smooth roads, etc.

None of that it is really free unless you aren't paying in to the system. I'm not saying any of it is bad, but to call it free is rather misleading.

When did I say anything about free? The point was what you get for your tax dollars.

Highlighted that for you.

As in, no additional out of pocket cost. Most people are actually paying twice for things. You are currently financing health care with your tax dollars and still paying for it. The same with education.
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 Fenrir.Camiie
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By Fenrir.Camiie 2014-05-02 19:06:07
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But now you're ignoring the high tax rate. My point is you're going to pay either way. There aren't any free lunches no matter what entity controls the system. Maybe consolidating it all through the government is smarter, better, cheaper, etc. but it still isn't free or even close.
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By Jetackuu 2014-05-02 19:11:22
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There's a difference between paying 60% of your salary in taxes and having just about everything covered that the society needs to function(which is a higher salary in the first place) and paying 30% in taxes and having your society crumble and fall apart and bicker and wage a class war.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-05-02 19:17:00
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Jetackuu said: »
There's a difference between paying 60% of your salary in taxes and having just about everything covered that the society needs to function(which is a higher salary in the first place) and paying 30% in taxes and having your society crumble and fall apart and bicker and wage a class war.

Not only that, but people seem to forget that countries with those reaching social and public service programs typically spend much less on the things with relatively low returns, like administrative costs. Socialism doesn't equal big government, socialism is socialism, we have a capitalist big government.
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