Russia And Ukraine
Russia and Ukraine
Arms, finance, and trade relations
Quote:
A Russian intelligence-gathering ship has been operating off the U.S. East Coast and near the Gulf of Mexico for the past month, the Pentagon said Thursday.
“We are aware that the Russian ships Viktor Leonov and Nikolay Chiker are currently operating in waters that are beyond U.S. territorial seas but near Cuba,” said Lt. Col. Tom Crosson, a Pentagon spokesman. “We respect the freedom of all nations, as reflected in international law, to operate military vessels beyond the territorial seas of other nations.”
“We are aware that the Russian ships Viktor Leonov and Nikolay Chiker are currently operating in waters that are beyond U.S. territorial seas but near Cuba,” said Lt. Col. Tom Crosson, a Pentagon spokesman. “We respect the freedom of all nations, as reflected in international law, to operate military vessels beyond the territorial seas of other nations.”
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Um, did you read the article?
They are loooking at PPP. And while that is very interesting what you stated is not true.
Edit: pet peeve, why no f-ing sources?! I'd actually like to read how they changed their methodology and what are the authors names!?
Not directed at you, just news articles in general
Quote:
Purchasing power parity does not take into account wealth per capita. On this basis, China is still considered a developing nation and ranks well behind the US.
According to World Bank figures, US GDP, which measures all goods and services produced in a country, was more than $16 trillion ($11.54 trillion) in 2012, while China’s was $8.2 trillion (€5.91 trillion).
According to World Bank figures, US GDP, which measures all goods and services produced in a country, was more than $16 trillion ($11.54 trillion) in 2012, while China’s was $8.2 trillion (€5.91 trillion).
They are loooking at PPP. And while that is very interesting what you stated is not true.
Edit: pet peeve, why no f-ing sources?! I'd actually like to read how they changed their methodology and what are the authors names!?
Not directed at you, just news articles in general
You need a subscription to read it.
Here a link to the video though: http://video.ft.com/v/3524303143001
Quote:
Bodies, Burning Military Vehicles at Ukraine Military Checkpoint: AP
BLAHODATNE, Ukraine - Journalists from The Associated Press have seen 11 dead bodies at a Ukrainian military checkpoint. Witnesses said that pro-Russian insurgents attacked the checkpoint in the village of Blahodatne in the eastern Donetsk region on Thursday.
Three charred Ukrainian armored personnel carriers and several other burned military vehicles stood at the site of the combat.
Witnesses said about 30 Ukrainian troops were wounded when the insurgents attacked the checkpoint.
Pro-Russian insurgents in the east, who have seized government buildings and engaged in clashes with government troops that have left scores dead since April, on Thursday continued battling the Ukrainian forces around Slovyansk, the eastern city that has been the epicenter of fighting.
In the village of Semenovka on the outskirts of Slovyansk, artillery shelling that appeared to come from government positions badly damaged several houses Thursday.
Zinaida Patskan, 80, had the roof of her house torn by an explosion, which also shattered one of the walls. "Why they are hitting us?" she said, bursting into tears. "We are peaceful people!"
Patskan, who wasn't hurt, said she was hiding under a kitchen table with her cat, Timofey, when the shelling came.
About a hundred Semenovka residents later vented their anger against the central government, demanding that the Ukrainian forces cease their offensive and withdraw from the region. Speakers at the rally also called for boycotting the presidential vote.
Your text to link here...
BLAHODATNE, Ukraine - Journalists from The Associated Press have seen 11 dead bodies at a Ukrainian military checkpoint. Witnesses said that pro-Russian insurgents attacked the checkpoint in the village of Blahodatne in the eastern Donetsk region on Thursday.
Three charred Ukrainian armored personnel carriers and several other burned military vehicles stood at the site of the combat.
Witnesses said about 30 Ukrainian troops were wounded when the insurgents attacked the checkpoint.
Pro-Russian insurgents in the east, who have seized government buildings and engaged in clashes with government troops that have left scores dead since April, on Thursday continued battling the Ukrainian forces around Slovyansk, the eastern city that has been the epicenter of fighting.
In the village of Semenovka on the outskirts of Slovyansk, artillery shelling that appeared to come from government positions badly damaged several houses Thursday.
Zinaida Patskan, 80, had the roof of her house torn by an explosion, which also shattered one of the walls. "Why they are hitting us?" she said, bursting into tears. "We are peaceful people!"
Patskan, who wasn't hurt, said she was hiding under a kitchen table with her cat, Timofey, when the shelling came.
About a hundred Semenovka residents later vented their anger against the central government, demanding that the Ukrainian forces cease their offensive and withdraw from the region. Speakers at the rally also called for boycotting the presidential vote.
Your text to link here...
Game Over. The U.S. has lost.
Source
Western Analysis:
Source
Quote:
China and Russia signed a $400-billion gas supply deal on Wednesday, securing the world's top energy user a major source of cleaner fuel and opening up a new market for Moscow as it risks losing European customers over the Ukraine crisis.
The long-awaited agreement is a political triumph for Russian President Vladimir Putin, who is courting partners in Asia as those in Europe and the United States seek to isolate him over Moscow's annexation of Ukraine's Crimea peninsula.
Commercially, much depends on the price and other terms of the contract, which has been more than a decade in the making.
China had the upper hand as talks entered the home stretch, aware of Putin's face-off with the West.
But both sides could take positives from a deal that will directly link Russia's huge gas fields to Asia's booming market for the first time - via thousands of miles of new pipeline across Siberia that form part of the package.
"This is the biggest contract in the history of the gas sector of the former USSR," said Putin, after the agreement was signed in Shanghai between state-controlled entities Gazprom and China National Petroleum Corp (CNPC).
The long-awaited agreement is a political triumph for Russian President Vladimir Putin, who is courting partners in Asia as those in Europe and the United States seek to isolate him over Moscow's annexation of Ukraine's Crimea peninsula.
Commercially, much depends on the price and other terms of the contract, which has been more than a decade in the making.
China had the upper hand as talks entered the home stretch, aware of Putin's face-off with the West.
But both sides could take positives from a deal that will directly link Russia's huge gas fields to Asia's booming market for the first time - via thousands of miles of new pipeline across Siberia that form part of the package.
"This is the biggest contract in the history of the gas sector of the former USSR," said Putin, after the agreement was signed in Shanghai between state-controlled entities Gazprom and China National Petroleum Corp (CNPC).
Western Analysis:
Quote:
Check-mate.
As Russian President Vladimir Putin signed Russia’s historic $400 billion gas-supply agreement with China, he must have felt the satisfaction of a chess grandmaster revealing the inexorable outcome of a complicated endgame.
In theory, the next phase of the chess match between Russia and the West in Ukraine will only begin with the Ukrainian presidential election on Sunday. But Putin’s positioning of the pieces means the outcome is pre-ordained, no matter who emerges as the next president in Kiev.
No wonder the Russian stock market and ruble have both rebounded — with the MSCI Russia index gaining 20 percent in dollar terms since its low point on March 14.
...
Now that analysts are predicting no major violence at Sunday’s election, it is hard to see what arguments the West could offer for tightening sanctions — or how they would find the unity to do it if they tried. The incorporation of Crimea into Russian national territory has, in effect, been accepted by the world as irreversible.
Given Sevastopol’s priceless strategic significance as a naval base, not to mention the Russian people’s affection for Crimea as a vacation, retirement and cultural destination, the restoration of Crimea would, on its own, likely guarantee Putin’s political popularity for many years to come. But this week the news for Putin got even better.
Russia’s strategic gains in Crimea and Ukraine were already apparent by early May, when the Moscow stock market and the ruble started rapidly rising. But now the United States and Europe have delivered Putin another — even bigger — economic and geopolitical windfall: the prospect of a Sino-Russian partnership to balance NATO and the U.S. alliances in Asia.
...
When we consider the Western diplomatic ineptitude responsible for these events, culminating in Washington’s decision to issue arrest warrants for leading Chinese military figures the very day that Putin arrived in Shanghai, the 30-year energy deal between Russia and China becomes key.
...
Perhaps this confrontational behavior is just a brief aberration. But if Obama continues to needle and provoke China, he will not just be making an historic blunder — he will be playing straight into Putin’s strategy.
As Russian President Vladimir Putin signed Russia’s historic $400 billion gas-supply agreement with China, he must have felt the satisfaction of a chess grandmaster revealing the inexorable outcome of a complicated endgame.
In theory, the next phase of the chess match between Russia and the West in Ukraine will only begin with the Ukrainian presidential election on Sunday. But Putin’s positioning of the pieces means the outcome is pre-ordained, no matter who emerges as the next president in Kiev.
No wonder the Russian stock market and ruble have both rebounded — with the MSCI Russia index gaining 20 percent in dollar terms since its low point on March 14.
...
Now that analysts are predicting no major violence at Sunday’s election, it is hard to see what arguments the West could offer for tightening sanctions — or how they would find the unity to do it if they tried. The incorporation of Crimea into Russian national territory has, in effect, been accepted by the world as irreversible.
Given Sevastopol’s priceless strategic significance as a naval base, not to mention the Russian people’s affection for Crimea as a vacation, retirement and cultural destination, the restoration of Crimea would, on its own, likely guarantee Putin’s political popularity for many years to come. But this week the news for Putin got even better.
Russia’s strategic gains in Crimea and Ukraine were already apparent by early May, when the Moscow stock market and the ruble started rapidly rising. But now the United States and Europe have delivered Putin another — even bigger — economic and geopolitical windfall: the prospect of a Sino-Russian partnership to balance NATO and the U.S. alliances in Asia.
...
When we consider the Western diplomatic ineptitude responsible for these events, culminating in Washington’s decision to issue arrest warrants for leading Chinese military figures the very day that Putin arrived in Shanghai, the 30-year energy deal between Russia and China becomes key.
...
Perhaps this confrontational behavior is just a brief aberration. But if Obama continues to needle and provoke China, he will not just be making an historic blunder — he will be playing straight into Putin’s strategy.
Seriously.
A. This won't happen until at least 2018
B. This deal has been in the works for 10 years
C. Russia settled for a lower price because China had a better bargaining position, since Russia was rushing to finish this
D. The pipeline (2500+ miles) has not been built yet
E. Russia doesn't have full funding for the pipeline yet and will probably be very expensive for them (Russia will need to offer high interest rates on the bonds to offset the whole Russia filed bankruptcy before problem). It is estimated that it will be several years before Russia makes any money off of this deal after the pipeline comes fully online
What you are seeing is the completion of years of negotiating not "booya gotcha US"
A. This won't happen until at least 2018
B. This deal has been in the works for 10 years
C. Russia settled for a lower price because China had a better bargaining position, since Russia was rushing to finish this
D. The pipeline (2500+ miles) has not been built yet
E. Russia doesn't have full funding for the pipeline yet and will probably be very expensive for them (Russia will need to offer high interest rates on the bonds to offset the whole Russia filed bankruptcy before problem). It is estimated that it will be several years before Russia makes any money off of this deal after the pipeline comes fully online
What you are seeing is the completion of years of negotiating not "booya gotcha US"
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Speech is almost over, but you can tell Germany backed out of sanctions as well.
Living in germany we did not back out of sanctions overall but to our news it was agreed with the US that top priority would be the next Sunday. The EU has sent additional personell to observe and guarantee the upcoming voting process (as far as that is possible since the eastern part of ukraine is pretty much left out). That is top priority right now and it should be.
If there will be any major interferences the next stage of sanctions are to be followed. That is according to "our" news".
Nonetheless this whole ukraine-drama is a good new-age theatre. If you wouldn't know this is actually happening and your teacher would hand you an article for interpretation I would smile while I read through it since I would imagine she wrote it drunk before handing it out to me.
Quote:
Thursday, May 22, 2014, 21.42 o'clock: Recent survey on the presidential election in Ukraine, shortly before election day on May 25, 2014: According to this the favorite and entrepreneurs Petro Poroshenko leads with 44.6 percent in favor of the voters. This would mean a runoff election, which is scheduled for June 15, 2014. Ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko comes in the survey, only 7.5 percent.
It will be a rough call for next Sunday (surveys are surveys, meh). Waiting to 15th June isn't really doing any good.
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Seriously.
A. This won't happen until at least 2018
B. This deal has been in the works for 10 years
C. Russia settled for a lower price because China had a better bargaining position, since Russia was rushing to finish this
D. The pipeline (2500+ miles) has not been built yet
E. Russia doesn't have full funding for the pipeline yet and will probably be very expensive for them (Russia will need to offer high interest rates on the bonds to offset the whole Russia filed bankruptcy before problem). It is estimated that it will be several years before Russia makes any money off of this deal after the pipeline comes fully online
What you are seeing is the completion of years of negotiating not "booya gotcha US"
A. This won't happen until at least 2018
B. This deal has been in the works for 10 years
C. Russia settled for a lower price because China had a better bargaining position, since Russia was rushing to finish this
D. The pipeline (2500+ miles) has not been built yet
E. Russia doesn't have full funding for the pipeline yet and will probably be very expensive for them (Russia will need to offer high interest rates on the bonds to offset the whole Russia filed bankruptcy before problem). It is estimated that it will be several years before Russia makes any money off of this deal after the pipeline comes fully online
What you are seeing is the completion of years of negotiating not "booya gotcha US"
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Seriously.
A. This won't happen until at least 2018
B. This deal has been in the works for 10 years
C. Russia settled for a lower price because China had a better bargaining position, since Russia was rushing to finish this
D. The pipeline (2500+ miles) has not been built yet
E. Russia doesn't have full funding for the pipeline yet and will probably be very expensive for them (Russia will need to offer high interest rates on the bonds to offset the whole Russia filed bankruptcy before problem). It is estimated that it will be several years before Russia makes any money off of this deal after the pipeline comes fully online
What you are seeing is the completion of years of negotiating not "booya gotcha US"
A. This won't happen until at least 2018
B. This deal has been in the works for 10 years
C. Russia settled for a lower price because China had a better bargaining position, since Russia was rushing to finish this
D. The pipeline (2500+ miles) has not been built yet
E. Russia doesn't have full funding for the pipeline yet and will probably be very expensive for them (Russia will need to offer high interest rates on the bonds to offset the whole Russia filed bankruptcy before problem). It is estimated that it will be several years before Russia makes any money off of this deal after the pipeline comes fully online
What you are seeing is the completion of years of negotiating not "booya gotcha US"
It is a questionable timing tho, isn't it? When I originally read it it felt way to convenient. Tho I agree with you, even If the deal has been done there is no initial gain in the current situation.
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Segaia said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Speech is almost over, but you can tell Germany backed out of sanctions as well.
Living in germany we did not back out of sanctions overall but to our news it was agreed with the US that top priority would be the next Sunday. The EU has sent additional personell to observe and guarantee the upcoming voting process (as far as that is possible since the eastern part of ukraine is pretty much left out). That is top priority right now and it should be.
If there will be any major interferences the next stage of sanctions are to be followed. That is according to "our" news".
Nonetheless this whole ukraine-drama is a good new-age theatre. If you wouldn't know this is actually happening and your teacher would hand you an article for interpretation I would smile while I read through it since I would imagine she wrote it drunk before handing it out to me.
Russia caved to China wanting a lower price in this deal. I'm not sure how that equals a win for Russia.
Seems a clear "win" for China. For exploiting Russia's need to close the deal quickly.
Seems a clear "win" for China. For exploiting Russia's need to close the deal quickly.
Segaia said: »
Quote:
Thursday, May 22, 2014, 21.42 o'clock: Recent survey on the presidential election in Ukraine, shortly before election day on May 25, 2014: According to this the favorite and entrepreneurs Petro Poroshenko leads with 44.6 percent in favor of the voters. This would mean a runoff election, which is scheduled for June 15, 2014. Ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko comes in the survey, only 7.5 percent.
It will be a rough call for next Sunday (surveys are surveys, meh). Waiting to 15th June isn't really doing any good.
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Russia caved to China wanting a lower price in this deal. I'm not sure how that equals a win for Russia.
Seems a clear "win" for China. For exploiting Russia's need to close the deal quickly.
Seems a clear "win" for China. For exploiting Russia's need to close the deal quickly.
They have a buyer, now they can pave the way for more trade agreements and finally get some labor as Russia is desperate for workers. Plenty of jobs, just not enough people. Whereas China has too many workers and not enough jobs.
It's all in the Reuters analysis.
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Russia caved to China wanting a lower price in this deal. I'm not sure how that equals a win for Russia.
Seems a clear "win" for China. For exploiting Russia's need to close the deal quickly.
Seems a clear "win" for China. For exploiting Russia's need to close the deal quickly.
They have a buyer, now they can pave the way for more trade agreements and finally get some labor as Russia is desperate for workers. Plenty of jobs, just not enough people. Whereas China has too many workers and not enough jobs.
It's all in the Reuters analysis.
They will not be getting any money from China until at least 2018 in sales.
Russia shuts off EU's gas that cuts both ways in terms of hurting. No sales for Russia, no gas for EU.
The pipeline still has to be built. The pipeline still has to be funded....by bond investors. The bond market in China is not remotely large enough to cover the $50 billion+ cost of the pipeline.
Yes, sanctions can still hurt. However they hurt both ways.
Russia has all the natural resources, China has all the workers plus resources. And they also both have a common goal to ween off the dollar on a global stage. The combination of the two might finally bring some stability to the world that's reliant on the petrodollar to start wars and overthrow governments just to procure whatever little resources it can get rather than any kind of fair trade.
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Russia caved to China wanting a lower price in this deal. I'm not sure how that equals a win for Russia.
Seems a clear "win" for China. For exploiting Russia's need to close the deal quickly.
Seems a clear "win" for China. For exploiting Russia's need to close the deal quickly.
They have a buyer, now they can pave the way for more trade agreements and finally get some labor as Russia is desperate for workers. Plenty of jobs, just not enough people. Whereas China has too many workers and not enough jobs.
It's all in the Reuters analysis.
They will not be getting any money from China until at least 2018 in sales.
Gazprom and China have tentatively agreed on a $25 billion advance on their gas contract, the head of LLC Gazprom Export Alexander Medvedev told reporters.
Right. It is a hell of a lot more complicated than you keep stating the article you posted even states this.
Financial sanctions hurt both "sides" because all the countries involved are interconnected financially.
US investors make up the majority of investors in Russia. US and EU are the major customers of Chinese goods. US companies have increased lobbying efforts in DC to "inform" politicians of how important their investments in Russia are.
In short: everyone is in bed together.
Financial sanctions hurt both "sides" because all the countries involved are interconnected financially.
US investors make up the majority of investors in Russia. US and EU are the major customers of Chinese goods. US companies have increased lobbying efforts in DC to "inform" politicians of how important their investments in Russia are.
In short: everyone is in bed together.
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Russia caved to China wanting a lower price in this deal. I'm not sure how that equals a win for Russia.
Seems a clear "win" for China. For exploiting Russia's need to close the deal quickly.
Seems a clear "win" for China. For exploiting Russia's need to close the deal quickly.
They have a buyer, now they can pave the way for more trade agreements and finally get some labor as Russia is desperate for workers. Plenty of jobs, just not enough people. Whereas China has too many workers and not enough jobs.
It's all in the Reuters analysis.
They will not be getting any money from China until at least 2018 in sales.
Gazprom and China have tentatively agreed on a $25 billion advance on their gas contract, the head of LLC Gazprom Export Alexander Medvedev told reporters.
Key word: tentatively. 25$ billion is a drop in the bucket and would not compensate for not selling to the EU and Turkey.
That some bed, lol.
All I can say is doing business with the Chinese is very interesting, but lengthy. They really do try hard to make sure everyone involved gets a fair share as well as provide an equally fair amount of effort/resources.
All I can say is doing business with the Chinese is very interesting, but lengthy. They really do try hard to make sure everyone involved gets a fair share as well as provide an equally fair amount of effort/resources.
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Right. It is a hell of a lot more complicated than you keep stating the article you posted even states this.
Financial sanctions hurt both "sides" because all the countries involved are interconnected financially.
US investors make up the majority of investors in Russia. US and EU are the major customers of Chinese goods. US companies have increased lobbying efforts in DC to "inform" politicians of how important their investments in Russia are.
In short: everyone is in bed together.
Financial sanctions hurt both "sides" because all the countries involved are interconnected financially.
US investors make up the majority of investors in Russia. US and EU are the major customers of Chinese goods. US companies have increased lobbying efforts in DC to "inform" politicians of how important their investments in Russia are.
In short: everyone is in bed together.
^this
[+]
Financial dependence is the surest way to decrease wars between countries.
E.g. The EEC/EU
E.g. The EEC/EU
[+]
You, maybe, forget that most of my knowledge of Russia and China comes from working in both places and seeing how they operate firsthand. All I can do publicly is quote various news articles and release information that pertains to my employment situation as the situation allows me to do so.
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Financial dependence is the surest way to decrease wars between countries.
E.g. The EEC/EU
E.g. The EEC/EU
Too many people underemployed and too many people not able to find work will cause problems no matter how intertwined economies are.
If you're working a full work week and can't even feed yourself and/or your family, what's the point? Government assistance? Only problem is government assistance is constantly under threat by politicians which has created a stigma of such assistance plus the fear of always losing such assistance.
If you're in debt from education and can't even get a job in any field, never mind the field you went to school for, why bother busting your *** to pay back that money when you can't even support yourself?
Simple concepts that are completely overlooked by politicians here.
If you're working a full work week and can't even feed yourself and/or your family, what's the point? Government assistance? Only problem is government assistance is constantly under threat by politicians which has created a stigma of such assistance plus the fear of always losing such assistance.
If you're in debt from education and can't even get a job in any field, never mind the field you went to school for, why bother busting your *** to pay back that money when you can't even support yourself?
Simple concepts that are completely overlooked by politicians here.
[+]
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Too many people underemployed and too many people not able to find work will cause problems no matter how intertwined economies are.
If you're working a full work week and can't even feed yourself and/or your family, what's the point? Government assistance? Only problem is government assistance is constantly under threat by politicians which has created a stigma of such assistance plus the fear of always losing such assistance.
If you're working a full work week and can't even feed yourself and/or your family, what's the point? Government assistance? Only problem is government assistance is constantly under threat by politicians which has created a stigma of such assistance plus the fear of always losing such assistance.
It is usually under threat because it is misused. Most people I know are just too lazy to get their *** up. Just a few days ago there was data revealed from the "agency of work" (loosely translated) that last year about 33,7 billion Euro were drained for government assistance from which 6,8 billion Euro was spent for people that were migrating to germany for said government assistance within said year and have found no work as of yet. Not saying there aren't jobs that are paid just bad but they came to germany just for government assistance and live their life off of my taxes.
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
If you're in debt from education and can't even get a job in any field, never mind the field you went to school for, why bother busting your *** to pay back that money when you can't even support yourself?
Finding a workplace near around 200km is hard theese days. I aswell had to move to find a job but they are there - ppl are just not willing to or are not ready to search beyond that range. Moving when your family is dependent on you outside of work is a different topic (havin a grandma that needs daily care f.e.). Educational debt is a very distinct problem. I'll be honest that I can't talk about it since in Germany it is a marginal cost until you study at a university, but I can imagine it puts a high strain on your general life. I pray all governments will someday provide (nearly) free education - it pays out in the long run.
Wow that got longer than I intended it to be.
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Putin addressing the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum.
If you have not seen him in a speech, it is something to see. He speaks very on point to the issue, no dodgy remarks & teleprompters.
For being just one person, he knows his ***.
http://rt.com/on-air/russia-putin-spief-address/
If you have not seen him in a speech, it is something to see. He speaks very on point to the issue, no dodgy remarks & teleprompters.
For being just one person, he knows his ***.
http://rt.com/on-air/russia-putin-spief-address/
[+]
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