When I'm President, The Things I'll Change.
When I'm President, the things I'll Change.
Thoroughly read one post before you jump to another.
Carrelo, you seem to be interested in languages and such, do you have any experience with Esperanto?
http://en.lernu.net/lernado/index.php
You may find it interesting or you may already know of it. I thought it was pretty cool after a TED talk video brought it up how it helped students and I started looking into it. I'm wondering how long it would take someone like you to learn it?
http://en.lernu.net/lernado/index.php
You may find it interesting or you may already know of it. I thought it was pretty cool after a TED talk video brought it up how it helped students and I started looking into it. I'm wondering how long it would take someone like you to learn it?
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Grumpy Cat said: »
If I were president PCOC would be passed immediately.
Paper I submitted last semester. Got an A on it.
Paper I submitted last semester. Got an A on it.
I also drew a bit from I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream as well as an episode of Sliders I enjoyed.
Remora.Brain said: »
Carrelo, you seem to be interested in languages and such, do you have any experience with Esperanto?
http://en.lernu.net/lernado/index.php
You may find it interesting or you may already know of it. I thought it was pretty cool after a TED talk video brought it up how it helped students and I started looking into it. I'm wondering how long it would take someone like you to learn it?
http://en.lernu.net/lernado/index.php
You may find it interesting or you may already know of it. I thought it was pretty cool after a TED talk video brought it up how it helped students and I started looking into it. I'm wondering how long it would take someone like you to learn it?
My impression of it is similar to my impression of Tolkien's Elvish. That's not meant as a dig at Esperanto or anything--I think it's a really interesting concept that could make for a pretty unique hobby. I'm just not sold on its utility, which I'll admit may be an unfair conclusion. I don't know that I'd study it myself due to my existing familiarity with French (and to a lesser degree, Spanish), but I'll definitely read more about it--thanks for the link.
I had a longer post typed out, but I'd rather say this.
Shying away from what's worthwhile due to a minor possibility of risk, keeping others from reaching their potential because your own feelings might get hurt. Expectations are dropping, tests are getting easier to spare student's feelings, people are being told it's okay to be unhealthy...some schools don't even keep score anymore because the losing team might feel bad. Modern society is being rotted away because of people like you.
Well, you and soccer moms.
Shying away from what's worthwhile due to a minor possibility of risk, keeping others from reaching their potential because your own feelings might get hurt. Expectations are dropping, tests are getting easier to spare student's feelings, people are being told it's okay to be unhealthy...some schools don't even keep score anymore because the losing team might feel bad. Modern society is being rotted away because of people like you.
Well, you and soccer moms.
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
No, I'm using learning trig as an example of a well-documented psychological phenomenon. I was pretty clear on that, too.
Oh, ok, so you weren't comparing it to learning trig. You weren't implying that the psychology behind learning trig was the same, or similar, to the psychology behind weight lifting.
Well good, looks like we agree!
The idea you and Brain want to promote is getting people to do
This is well-founded fact. It doesn't even matter what method you use. Whether holding someone hostage by means of grades or providing them with material benefit (e.g., paying someone a dollar for every day they suffer gym class), the very use of external motivation kills internal motivation. This same phenomenon is easily recognized in the way that people are forced to study Spanish, trigonometry, or British literature and immediately forget most of it and, moreover, will almost never go near them again without a very good reason.
Hell, I'm an athletic person. I've forced myself to lift weights. I find it boring as ***and I have no interest in the results that I gain very easily. You seriously imagine that some ectomorph who literally cannot bulk up is going to feel wonderful working out beside a mesomorph like me? Much less that people will magically stop acting like human beings and keep doing your particular favorite thing? My favorite thing is to bike. I think nothing of putting 3 hours and over 50 miles in the saddle. Most people won't ride more than 5 miles and no amount of my saying, "Well, I enjoy it, so you should, too," is going to change that. Trust me, I wish it would, because then I could drag my friends along on a double century.
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I stopped caring about you Jira.
Yes, we want to force it. That's what school is about. You go there to learn things; and guess what: it's not voluntarily. Society forces its young to learn about things, even if they don't want to. If you don't want to use it when you grow up, then so be it, but at least you have that knowledge. We force history into all of our students when they are young and we still have historians. Yeah, not every child grows up to be a historian, but those who want to be will have a solid starting point.
This is high school we're talking about, remember. This isn't college where people start specializing in what they want to do. The job of grade school is to build a solid foundation of knowledge. That includes math, history and science, but that also includes how to play different sports, how to plan your life, and in my opinion, it should also include how to properly manage your body.
Weight lifting is more than just about picking up heavy things and putting it down. I had to learn a lot about how the human body works and how to properly maintain it. Would have been impossible to learn it without the internet. People everywhere hurt their back on a regular basis. Maybe if they knew to lift with their legs and gluts and not round their back, they wouldn't have hurt themselves. Maybe if they knew how to fix muscle imbalances, they wouldn't end up with some permanent condition down the line. There's almost nothing more important to us than our own bodies, and ironically, that's one of the things school doesn't bother to teach us about.
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Are you functionally HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE? Or just regular HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE?
Yes, we want to force it. That's what school is about. You go there to learn things; and guess what: it's not voluntarily. Society forces its young to learn about things, even if they don't want to. If you don't want to use it when you grow up, then so be it, but at least you have that knowledge. We force history into all of our students when they are young and we still have historians. Yeah, not every child grows up to be a historian, but those who want to be will have a solid starting point.
This is high school we're talking about, remember. This isn't college where people start specializing in what they want to do. The job of grade school is to build a solid foundation of knowledge. That includes math, history and science, but that also includes how to play different sports, how to plan your life, and in my opinion, it should also include how to properly manage your body.
Weight lifting is more than just about picking up heavy things and putting it down. I had to learn a lot about how the human body works and how to properly maintain it. Would have been impossible to learn it without the internet. People everywhere hurt their back on a regular basis. Maybe if they knew to lift with their legs and gluts and not round their back, they wouldn't have hurt themselves. Maybe if they knew how to fix muscle imbalances, they wouldn't end up with some permanent condition down the line. There's almost nothing more important to us than our own bodies, and ironically, that's one of the things school doesn't bother to teach us about.
Yeah, endo/meso/ecto is a myth, and any male who lifts properly, eats enough, and doesn't have some weird, massive testosterone deficiency can gain muscle size if that were their goal. Sure some people do swell up stupid fast, but no one under proper conditions just doesn't grow.
That said, if you're focusing on swelling up you've missed almost the ENTIRE point of making weight lifting mandatory for all physically capable students for 4 years of their lives.
It comes at a time when it benefits them most, like it or not. They could quit the second they graduate and still carry benefits from it for the rest of their lives, particularly in bone density.
It lasts long enough to become habit for many, people who would otherwise have never tried it will, everyone who participates will become healthier and possibly see improvements in self-esteem (through accomplishment or body image) which is important at that age, it boosts athletic performance across the board, it gets people used to being physically active, and has health benefits that can persist throughout life regardless of if they quit or not.
I see literally no downside whatsoever to a properly regulated and supervised, mandatory high school requirement for weightroom. On the opinion side of things, I honestly doubt if surveyed that most graduating students would say required weightroom was the worst thing to happen to school after the fact, and I'm sure a lot of people will take to it who never would have otherwise.
It's a step in the right direction because it undeniably will affect the health of millions of Americans for the better, and it's a proactive strategy that can target most before major health problems strike.
That said, if you're focusing on swelling up you've missed almost the ENTIRE point of making weight lifting mandatory for all physically capable students for 4 years of their lives.
It comes at a time when it benefits them most, like it or not. They could quit the second they graduate and still carry benefits from it for the rest of their lives, particularly in bone density.
It lasts long enough to become habit for many, people who would otherwise have never tried it will, everyone who participates will become healthier and possibly see improvements in self-esteem (through accomplishment or body image) which is important at that age, it boosts athletic performance across the board, it gets people used to being physically active, and has health benefits that can persist throughout life regardless of if they quit or not.
I see literally no downside whatsoever to a properly regulated and supervised, mandatory high school requirement for weightroom. On the opinion side of things, I honestly doubt if surveyed that most graduating students would say required weightroom was the worst thing to happen to school after the fact, and I'm sure a lot of people will take to it who never would have otherwise.
It's a step in the right direction because it undeniably will affect the health of millions of Americans for the better, and it's a proactive strategy that can target most before major health problems strike.
Remora.Brain said: »
Yeah, endo/meso/ecto is a myth
I would disagree with personal knowledge. I boxed in high school, did kick boxing, fencing, and ballet (hell of an exercise) for a short time. I worked out more than the average "jock", and while others were getting the 6-pack, I was stuck with a blank canvas.
I worked twice as hard as one person and he was keeping his 6-pack while I was lucky to maintain just a flat stomach. Cardio (jogging, walking, sprinting, biking, hiking, and swimming) as well as weight training (you name the exercise and I've done it 1994-1998) as well as bag training and sparring. I was on a controlled diet precisely balanced and adjusted by nutritionists and doctors. Some people just aren't capable of producing the same results as others.
As for weight training in and of itself, yeah I hated it with a passion. I preferred to do bag training, swimming, and jogging. While I agree with instituting a nation wide fitness program, there needs to be more than simply weight training. That's a one sided philosophy of something you enjoy that doesn't produce what you think it will in everyone.
Errr abs are muscles too. Did you do...anything to grow them? Sounds like you just sweat a lot and expect to have a 6pack.
Your story just sounds really off. You did all that and couldn't maintain a flat stomach? Sounds like there's something you're holding back. Your diet was planned by doctors? Why? You should have went to a strength coach.
What kind of weight training did you do? Do you know the primary compound exercises? Do you know the proper form? What were your stats with those exercises? You sound like one of those people who go to the gym without knowing what they're doing. I think we can all agree that there are many people in the gym who have no idea what they're doing; they're essentially there wasting their time and not getting results. You sound like the kind of person this kind of education is primarily meant to help.
Your story just sounds really off. You did all that and couldn't maintain a flat stomach? Sounds like there's something you're holding back. Your diet was planned by doctors? Why? You should have went to a strength coach.
What kind of weight training did you do? Do you know the primary compound exercises? Do you know the proper form? What were your stats with those exercises? You sound like one of those people who go to the gym without knowing what they're doing. I think we can all agree that there are many people in the gym who have no idea what they're doing; they're essentially there wasting their time and not getting results. You sound like the kind of person this kind of education is primarily meant to help.
Re:Esperanto
If you give an additional language to a child he'll learn it faster than an adult regardless of which one it is. By teaching esperanto to make the passage to future languages smoother is just an unnecessary step.
I'm italian, I started studying english when I was 4, latin when I was 12, french when I was 14 and german when I was 16. I always found esperanto a fun and cool concept, but it's not useful. You don't realize because you are a native english speaker, but english already covers that role in an excellent manner. Spanish and chinese, now those would be very useful to your country.
If you give an additional language to a child he'll learn it faster than an adult regardless of which one it is. By teaching esperanto to make the passage to future languages smoother is just an unnecessary step.
I'm italian, I started studying english when I was 4, latin when I was 12, french when I was 14 and german when I was 16. I always found esperanto a fun and cool concept, but it's not useful. You don't realize because you are a native english speaker, but english already covers that role in an excellent manner. Spanish and chinese, now those would be very useful to your country.
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Spanish and chinese, now those would be very useful to your country.
Chinese on the other hand... hell, people in China don't speak Mandarin. It's a big problem for the Chinese government that their official language is a long, long, long way from having the prevalence that the official or dominant language in other industrialized countries has.
That said, as a Scots-Irish man whose family has only been in the Americas for less than a century, I've been trying to connect with my Keltic roots by learning a little of either GÃ idhlig or Gaeilge. I'd rather the former but the latter is more widely spoken, so... I dunno.
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
We force history into all of our students when they are young and we still have historians. Yeah, not every child grows up to be a historian, but those who want to be will have a solid starting point.
There's a better solution which, if I were able to remake the world, would be part of my plan: diversify education. It's not even a clever idea because I was taking elective courses when I was in second grade. I very much like the idea of a generalist curriculum to create well-rounded students, but having studied modern psychology and neuroscience, I see the inherent flaw: only a few people are going to be generalists.
My father is actually a perfect example. He is well above average in terms of IQ but his specialization is and always has been medicine. I can ask him any obscure question in the world about medicine and I've never yet stumped him except when modern medicine doesn't know the answer, either. However, he can barely integrate data outside his particular passions (he has a few other hobbies, obviously). He genuinely thought an automatic transmission car didn't have gears. He couldn't figure out how to use a simple pump and grade school hydrophysics to drain a swimming pool.
Most people are like that, though generally not to that extreme. We like to say that people don't know what they want to do until midway through college, but their interests -- which will always be their interests -- are usually pretty easy to figure out before middle school. Brain suffered a pretty devastating injury while lifting heavy ***and he's still stumping for it, after all. I've been bicycling for almost as long as I've been walking and I still advocate for it in spite of having hurt myself more times than I care to count.
So schooling needs to permit more specialization, not less. If you want to promote athleticism, make it a part of the curriculum again and make it more than just PE classes. Include a few options like ballet and martial arts on top of the usual array of basketball, track, and cheerleading, and you'll at least keep the interest of the people who will never be athletes. Seriously, though, even among people who are inclined to athleticism and whose chosen activity would benefit highly from lifting, most will find it tedious and will do everything they can to avoid it, no differently than how most folks react to algebra, French, and world history.
Soooo, lets see here:
Enforcing a policy on the public that is basically useless: check
Encouraging drugs, and opening a way that will harm the public in the future: check
Encouraging the spread of diseases to a larger population: check
Not understanding business law: check (although I would agree with you about busting PACs)
Eliminating choice for the public...again: check
Not understanding the tax code and what "loopholes" really exist (I mean, you really want to eliminate mortgage interest, sales tax deduction, charity, and student loan deductions? Those are tax "loopholes" too you know): check
Losing response time and encouraging our enemies domestic and abroad in striking targets and people: check
Encouraging "murder for profit": check
You must be a Democrat.
Although I agree with you on some points...well, just the legalization of gay marriage and getting rid of PACs, but most everything else, sorry, don't agree with you on.
Enforcing a policy on the public that is basically useless: check
Encouraging drugs, and opening a way that will harm the public in the future: check
Encouraging the spread of diseases to a larger population: check
Not understanding business law: check (although I would agree with you about busting PACs)
Eliminating choice for the public...again: check
Not understanding the tax code and what "loopholes" really exist (I mean, you really want to eliminate mortgage interest, sales tax deduction, charity, and student loan deductions? Those are tax "loopholes" too you know): check
Losing response time and encouraging our enemies domestic and abroad in striking targets and people: check
Encouraging "murder for profit": check
You must be a Democrat.
Although I agree with you on some points...well, just the legalization of gay marriage and getting rid of PACs, but most everything else, sorry, don't agree with you on.
Grumpy Cat said: »
If I were president PCOC would be passed immediately.
Paper I submitted last semester. Got an A on it.
Paper I submitted last semester. Got an A on it.
First off, the Social Security Fund was supposed to be self-sustaining (at least it was at the start) but then politicians started taking some of the fund and "borrowing" it for little pet projects of theirs. That is the key factor of the lack of funds for those who already placed their money in the system (by ways of taxes). Then you have the SSI for disability (which is NOT self-funded) also eating into this fund.
The best way to solve the Social Security problem is to A) Remove the non-self sufficient aspects of the fund and make the General Fund pay for the insurance/payments (and pose stricter restrictions on who gets what, I mean getting payments for being "depressed" without actually proving it? And people think that fraud isn't happening???) and B) repay all the money taken out of the Social Security Fund as one of the first appropriations made by Congress each year (or supposed to..). It doesn't have to be all at once, but it shouldn't take longer than the timeframe when the fund started getting robbed by politicians to when they stop, which leads to C) Create and enforce a law/regulation that states that any politician/employee who raids the Social Security fund for anything outside of dismemberment of funds that the Social Security act of 1935 (and as amended up to 10/12/06) that does not include the disability insurance portion of the act (because A removed it) should be tried as severally as committing treason against the USA. Sorry for the wall o' text.
The third phase sounds a lot like "The Hunger Games" to me. If you want to participate in PCOC, you have to sign up as a "tribute" to put your name in the hat? That is basically what I'm getting at.
I would do what the Chinese are doing, but go further than that by expanding the lottery and allowing would-be parents who want multiple children eligible after 3 years from their previous kid. They would still risk the lottery, that lottery resets every year, and if they aren't lucky in one year, then they can try again the next provided that they fit the criteria. I would also limit the age you can have a kid (between 21 and 49).
There are 2 problems with enforcing this though...
A) How are you going to punish those who do not follow by these rules?
B) You have the US government forcing these rules.
The problem with A) is that you can't really take the kid away from the parent, that goes against our very core as Americans. You also can't kill the kid or parents, it's not the kid's fault that the parents didn't "follow the rules." If you enact a "penalty" (say, $10k per year until the kid turns 18) then you are not being wealth-neutral like your paper states is the overall goal of this plan. Even if you enact a penalty based on the income of the parents, you are still not solving the problem, since poverty breeds poverty and we are right back to where we started.
The problem with B) is that the US government is riddled with inefficiencies, fraud, and corruption. This has been pronounced more recently in the past 5 years than it ever has in the history of America. The US government cannot enforce this law as intended because the government always panders to their voter base, so every 4-8 years you will see one group of people rise over another group, which will change every presidential election that ushers a new president.
I like your idea, it can work, but it won't be able to work in the USA.
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Not understanding the tax code and what "loopholes" really exist (I mean, you really want to eliminate mortgage interest, sales tax deduction, charity, and student loan deductions? Those are tax "loopholes" too you know): check
I want to reemphasize on this point a little further.
When people complain about tax "loopholes" I wonder what exactly they think a "loophole" is. I also would like to understand what sort of these "loopholes" they would get rid of.
Because a "loophole" means Code Section 168(k)/Section 179 acceleration of deprecation. Also Code Section 529 Qualified treatment of education savings accounts. Also Code Section 408 Individual Retirement Accounts. Also yet to be codified Health/Flexible Savings/Spending Accounts. See my point?
There are really no "loophole" out there that will not immediately effect the public. Those "loopholes" that you see in Hollywood have been closed since the late '80s/early '90s. There aren't really any tax shelters out there at all anymore (because if you are going to go after tax shelters, you are only going after IRA/Roth IRA/SIMPLE IRA/SEP/401(k) and so on)
and yes, triple post. Bite me!
Quote:
almost no one became a historian after being forced through history classes.
I'm sure there are more historians who were forced to go to school and were exposed to History classes than there were historians that never had a history course in their life.
You're also assuming that it matters what kids think. If kids were never made to go to classes almost none of them would ever go, period.
Even if you don't like lifting, it doesn't change the fact that you still receive health benefits from 4 years worth of it even if you quit and never touch a barbell again after you graduate.
I think you're completely missing the point as well. You're comparing mental growth to physical growth. Yeah, they don't work the same. If you aren't interested in History, French, or Math you can just not learn it. You go into weightlifting and even if you aren't interested, your body changes from it.
Lifting is a cheap, effective, and relatively safe form of physical activity, leading to less injuries per 100 participation hours than almost every other sport including cross country, swimming, and badminton to name a few.
I stump for physical activity in general but anyone who knows anything kinesiology/exercise science/phys will tell you that resistance training has universal benefits.
Also, "6-pack" abs are a result of low body fat percentages and not muscular gains. If you look at body builders when on their bulk phases they're as smooth as a baby whale. Once they begin to cut, that's when you start to see the muscle definition that so many people think of when they think of bodybuilding.
So if you don't have abs showing despite working hard, it's because your body fat is high enough and you're either eating at caloric maintenance or excess.
Now that being said, where each individual preferentially stores body fat differs, so some people may see abs at slightly different percentages.
The Endo/Ecto/Meso thing has been debunked to death and survives as a convenient excuse that people can use when they don't meet their goals, be it lack of trying or lack of knowledge.
I hate to be captain killjoy, but you have to be born here to be president, OP.
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Quote:
Encouraging drugs, and opening a way that will harm the public in the future: check
Tell me all about the evils of pot. It's worked out amazingly in Colorado and it generating stupid amounts of money. The people that originally opposed it in Colorado and were preparing for anarchy are now talking about how well it worked out.
Don't gimme that bullsh*t about harming the public either when smoking has been legal for years and is actually worse for you. How many people die from pot every year? Not as many who die from smoking.
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Encouraging the spread of diseases to a larger population: check
This is stupid. A license requiring prostitutes to be screened regularly and disclosing potential STD threats to customers isn't spreading disease faster than anonymous streetwalkers barebacking johns in an alleyway.
Quote:
Eliminating choice for the public...again: check
At no level of schooling has a child had any say in his core curriculum. How is adding weight room to the core curriculum any different?
Quote:
Not understanding the tax code and what "loopholes" really exist (I mean, you really want to eliminate mortgage interest, sales tax deduction, charity, and student loan deductions? Those are tax "loopholes" too you know): check
I don't know about you, but to me a loophole is an unintended event, not something that was planned on, like charitable deductions. Last in first out accounting is a loophole that needs closing.
So tell me how closing bullsh*t like that is a bad idea.
Quote:
Losing response time and encouraging our enemies domestic and abroad in striking targets and people: check
Policing the world isn't our job, and if America kept their noses out of other people's sh*t for the most part there wouldn't be as many problems for us. We could have stayed out of almost every other country's affairs after WWII and done fine for ourselves. Our "enemies" are currently the equivalent of a bunch of goat herders with guns, a theocracy in the planet's asscrack, and the only Koreans who can't even grasp the intricacies of photoshop.
Quote:
Encouraging "murder for profit": check
Murder for Profit? How? You'd have to sign up yourself, pass a stringent and extended screening period, keep yourself in good shape, and reaffirm consent before the procedure.
If you're going to insult me over this at least provide some backing for your claims. You dirty Obama lover.
Remora.Brain said: »
Even if you don't like lifting, it doesn't change the fact that you still receive health benefits from 4 years worth of it even if you quit and never touch a barbell again after you graduate.
Remora.Brain said: »
I think you're completely missing the point as well. You're comparing mental growth to physical growth.
I mean, you're never going to be President nor accomplish all of this stuff, anyhow, but pretending that you somehow could, I'm trying to explicate a critical point of human psychology. Well, several points, actually, but the important one is that making everyone do exactly one thing is never effective. Best case scenario is maybe a 5% success rate based on related methods. Why even bother with a 95% failure rate? There are more athletic folks than that under the current regime of cutting sports funding and PE classes.
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Siren.Mosin said: »
I hate to be captain killjoy, but you have to be born here to be president, OP.
But good sir, Obama broke that mold. OP has a shot with the current trend!
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Remora.Brain said: »
We could have stayed out of almost every other country's affairs after WWII
Siren.Mosin said: »
I hate to be captain killjoy, but you have to be born here to be president, OP.
being born here would qualify though.
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Remora.Brain said: »
We could have stayed out of almost every other country's affairs after WWII
I think Brain needs to brush up on the past 70 years of history, yes mistakes were made, but isolationism is what allowed WW2 to happen, and we can no longer get away with it.
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Siren.Mosin said: »
there's a severe degree of difference, and a lot of people don't understand and it just gives fuel to the birther myths.
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