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Are You A Lukewarm Christian?
 Fenrir.Atheryn
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1665
By Fenrir.Atheryn 2014-01-31 10:27:20
I don't think this is even a debate about religion or lack there of, at least, not any more. This is more of a squabble over English comprehension.
Me fail English that is unpossible. 
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By fonewear 2014-01-31 10:28:28
Page ten I'm still believing in nothing. That is to say if nothing exists.
Also trees falling in a forest. Sound of one hand clapping and so on.
 Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-01-31 10:30:15
Anyway, back on topic, I think a lot of Christians end up becoming luke-warm because they're afraid of persecution. There comes a point where "secular" is taken to mean "anti-religion".
Presumptuous.
What if some see their Christianity as the fundamental building blocks to continuously expand upon? Rather than a solely "Christian" idea of faith, an amalgamation of faiths that is morphed into more of a spiritual philosophy.
What if Jesus's unaccounted for years were spent in a Mahayana (sp?) Buddhist temple? Atonement and redemption sounds an awful lot like Karma. I think some Christians could have a more fulfilling spiritual experience were they to also be receptive to the teachings of Buddha. (Being receptive to all ideas/philosophies and approaching each with "Tabula Rasa"...There's a Buddhist lesson!) Christians could also benefit from the Buddhist idea that cycles of constant questioning and curiosity fulfillment are a valuable part of life also.
Pope John Paul II officially accepted The Big Bang Theory as a way to fill in the Creationist dots for Catholics. What if the Hindus have it right? This is the current world that Vishnu oversees, Shiva and the destruction of the current world is lurking around the corner (apocalypse obviously), but never fear, Brahma will always be there to clean up Shiva's mess and restore the planet before handing it off to Vishnu again. That could also be "written in the stars".
Do you view secularism in terms of actually being "anti-religion" or simply "anti-Christian"? What do you honestly have to say about your path in Christianity if you are never exposed or give yourself exposure to other religions?
I wonder how many here went to Confirmation and actually invoked the hidden message.
Back to reading.
By fonewear 2014-01-31 10:32:06
Buddhism I'm not Richard Gere damn it ! I tried other religions but found listening to Nirvana better than achieving it.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-01-31 10:37:01
Page ten I'm still believing in nothing. That is to say if nothing exists.
Also trees falling in a forest. Sound of one hand clapping and so on. You also don't exist.
Now lets go to Hooters.
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By fonewear 2014-01-31 10:43:17
I would actually go to Hooters if they stopped serving food...
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2014-01-31 10:45:08
I believe people become luke-warm because of the "noise" in our society. ADD/Phones/Facebook/Radio etc. Everything is instant gratification. Kids (adults now too) don't even hold conversations at a restaurant. How can they have the patience to sit through an hour of mass? How can you have a conversation, let alone relationship, with Christ?
Even if you don't believe in a judeo-christian God, spirituality is suffering a crisis. Even non religious meditation would be difficult. How can you achieve inner quiet and begin introspection when you can barely be quiet. You know how they say "turning off your phone before bed can help you with sleeplessness"? All that ***goes on subconsciously in the BG. We as a society are becoming awful people. I wouldn't want a relationship with a girl that just buried her nose in her phone everytime i wanted to have a conversation. God is infinitely more patient than I am, but how is he going to nurture a 1-way relationship?
I'm sincerely hopeful for our new pope. I'm hoping his "Franciscan" (back to nature) ways foster an attitude of bettering relationships with each other. I also hope the "can't be even out of my home without full attention on electronics" *** ends (religion or not). When was the last time you talked to a freshly 20-something? They squirm. They can't look you in the eye.
Anyhow, that's my 2 cents on topic since i got mired down in this thread anyhow :x
By fonewear 2014-01-31 10:45:30
I mean sure I like *** but I'm not that big on chicken wings and Bud Light.
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By fonewear 2014-01-31 10:46:34
A conversation that doesn't involve lol or emoticons never!
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-01-31 10:47:14
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By fonewear 2014-01-31 10:51:54
Going to put on my old man mentality. I agree with Ash that Facebook etc has made conversations trivial to the point of boring. People used to actually listen and respond. Now it is just talking to hear themselves. The art of conversation is severely lacking. If you come away from a conversation and think. "What the hell was that". You know what I'm talking about.
By fonewear 2014-01-31 10:54:56
My biggest pet peeve is lack of curiosity. I don't care if you are smart or not so smart. At least attempt to try to learn something new. Then you will have more things to talk about.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-31 11:05:23
Wrong. Not believing in something could even be never having heard of it. Someone who has never heard of Taoism doesn't "believe it's not true", they have no belief. Again, this has been explained to you over and over with dictionary definitions and visual aids.
Drop it, you're antagonizing and taunting people the same why you cry to mods about when people do it to you.
Actually no I won't drop it. You ask to drop it because you know you are defending a wrong point for no reason. I said already that not ever hearing of something is the only absence of belief because its ignorance of the subject. But once the concept is introduced you either believe it is true or you believe it is not true. This is not difficult man. Even the geniuses that you associate with that do not contemplate it have heard of God, and they either believe in God or believe there is no God.
Edit: Sheesh. Stop being stubborn.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-01-31 11:07:10
What an irrelevant argument.
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2014-01-31 11:15:53
When was the last time you talked to a freshly 20-something? They squirm. They can't look you in the eye. I see your point, and it's not completely wrong, but making it a general thing is wrong;
I talk to people in their early twenty, late teens, early thirty, late twenty and early forty on a regular basis. This isn't based on age, it's based on the person's habits and overall respect.
The only people I see buried in their phones are usually the early thirty and late teens. I have met I don't how many people whether they are in their twenty or thirty that either don't have a phone at all, or have a *** Nokia 3310 because they don't give a ***and it's for emergencies/convenience.
In my opinion, if you meet a large amount of people buried in their phones and these are the usual people around you, then you need to pick your acquaintances better.
My phone is literally an alarm clock for me, and somewhat of a notepad whenever I take a plane for my reservation ticket. I've met several people in the same situation.
I wouldn't even pay attention to a girl that is used to be on Facebook on her phone. It's a big red sign for me.
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VIP
Server: Odin
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-31 11:16:23
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Wrong. Not believing in something could even be never having heard of it. Someone who has never heard of Taoism doesn't "believe it's not true", they have no belief. Again, this has been explained to you over and over with dictionary definitions and visual aids.
Drop it, you're antagonizing and taunting people the same why you cry to mods about when people do it to you.
Actually no I won't drop it. You ask to drop it because you know you are defending a wrong point for no reason. I said already that not ever hearing of something is the only absence of belief because its ignorance of the subject. But once the concept is introduced you either believe it is true or you believe it is not true. This is not difficult man. Even the geniuses that you associate with that do not contemplate it have heard of God, and they either believe in God or believe there is no God.
Edit: Sheesh. Stop being stubborn.
Again misuse of language simply to retain a future talking point. When presented with a subject, you can choose not to acknowledge the choice or choose not to pass judgement. Just because you don't see any alternative doesn't make it so.
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Valefor.Endoq
Server: Valefor
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Posts: 6906
By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 11:16:43
Please note that I posted this in the "Politics and Religion" topic, so please no hateful or anti religion remarks or flame-wars.
This post is for my fellow Christians, but I welcome all who are not, but do have a genuine interest in Jesus Christ and his teachings.
I spent many years being a lukewarm Christian after I first accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior, and in the last year or so I have devoted myself to him and my life has changed for the better in ways I never imagined possible. and today in my studies I came across some informative websites that touched on some issues that have bothered me for some time now.
Here is the info from those websites.
Are You A Lukewarm Christian? 1. Lukewarm people attend church fairly regularly. It is what is expected of them, what they believe “good Christians” do, so they go. Isaiah 29:13
2. Lukewarm people give money to charity and to the church as long as it doesn’t impinge on their standard of living. If they have a little extra and it is easy and safe to give, they do so, After all, God loves a cheerful giver, right? 1 Chronicles 21:24, Luke 21:1-4
3. Lukewarm people tend to choose what is popular over what is right when they are in conflict. They desire to fit in both at church and outside of church; they care more about what people think of their actions (like church attendance and giving) than what God thinks of their hearts and lives. Luke 6:26, Revelation 3:1, Matthew 23:5-7 4.
4: Lukewarm people don’t really want to be saved from their sin; they want only to be saved from the penalty of their sin. They don’t genuinely hate sin and aren’t truly sorry for it; they’re merely sorry because God is going to punish them. Lukewarm people don’t really believe that this new life Jesus offers is better than the old sinful one. John 10:10, Romans 6:1-2.
5. Lukewarm people are moved by stories of people who do radical things for Christ, yet they do not act. They assume such action is for “extreme” Christians, not average ones. Lukewarm people call “radical” what Jesus expected of all His followers. James 1:22, James 4:17, Matthew 21:28-31
6. Lukewarm people rarely share their faith with their neighbors, coworkers, or friends. They do not want to be rejected, nor do they want to make people uncomfortable by talking about private issues like religion. Matthew 10:32-33
7. Lukewarm people gauge their morality or “goodness” by comparing themselves to the secular world. They feel satisfied that while they aren’t as hard-core for Jesus as so-and-so, they are nowhere as horrible as the guy down the street. Luke 18:11-12
8. Lukewarm people say they love Jesus, and He is, indeed, a part of their lives, their money, and their thoughts, but he isn’t allowed to control their lives. Luke 9:57-62
9. Lukewarm people love God, but they do not love Him all their heart, soul, and strength. They would be quick to assure you they try to love God that much, but that sort of total devotion isn’t really possible for the average person; its only for pastors and missionaries and radicals. Matthew 22:37-38
10. Lukewarm people love others but do not seek to love others as much as they love themselves. Their love for others is typically focused on those who love them in return, like family, friends, and other people they know and connect with. There is a little love left over for those who cannot love them back, much less for those who intentionally slight them, who kids are better athletes than theirs, or with whom conversations are awkward or uncomfortable. Their love is highly conditional and very selective, and generally comes with strings attached. Matthew 5:43-47, Luke 14:12-14
11. Lukewarm people will serve God and others, but there are limits to how far they will go or how much time, money, and energy they are willing to give. Luke 18:21-25
12. Lukewarm people think about life on earth much more often than eternity in heaven. Daily life is mostly focused on today’s to-do list, this week’s schedule, and next month’s vacation. Rarely, if ever do they intently consider the life to come. Philippians 3:18-20
13. Lukewarm people are thankful for their luxuries and comforts, and rarely consider trying to give as much as possible to the poor. Matthew 25:34, 40, Isaiah 58:6-7
14. Lukewarm people do whatever is necessary to keep themselves from feeling too guilty. They want to do the bare minimum, to be “good enough” without requiring too much of them. 1 Chronicles 29:14, Matthew 13:44-46
15. Lukewarm people are continually concerned with playing it safe; they are slaves to the god of control. This focus on safe living keeps them sacrificing and risking for God. Matthew 10:28
16. Lukewarm people feel secure because they attend church, made a profession of faith at age twelve, were baptized, come from a Christian family, vote Republican, or live in America.
17. Luke warm people do not live by faith; their lives are structured so they never have to. They don’t have to trust God if something unexpected happens-they have their savings account. They don’t need God to help them—they have their retirement plan in place. They don’t genuinely seek out what life God would have them live—they have life figured and mapped out. They don’t depend on God on a daily basis-their refrigerators are full and, for the most part, they are in good health. The truth is, their lives wouldn’t look much different if they suddenly stopped believing in God. Luke 12:16-21
18. Lukewarm people probably drink and swear less than average, but besides that, they really aren’t very different from your typical unbeliever. They equate their partially sanitized lives with holiness, but they couldn’t be more wrong. Matthew 23:25-28, Luke 14:34-35
Source: http://chrismarlow.me/2008/06/are-you-a-lukewarm-christian/
Bible Verses about lukewarm Christians: Revelation 3:15-16 ESV / 495 helpful votes
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
Revelation 3:14-22 ESV / 298 helpful votes
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
1 John 2:15-16 ESV / 220 helpful votes
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world.
Matthew 12:30 ESV / 134 helpful votes
Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
Matthew 5:13 ESV / 130 helpful votes
“You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.
James 3:10-12 ESV / 94 helpful votes
From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water.
2 Timothy 4:3 ESV / 76 helpful votes
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 ESV / 69 helpful votes
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.”
Matthew 16:26 ESV / 67 helpful votes
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?
1 John 3:10 ESV / 63 helpful votes
By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
Matthew 12:33-37 ESV / 51 helpful votes
“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
1 Peter 3:15 ESV / 46 helpful votes
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
2 Timothy 3:4 ESV / 45 helpful votes
Treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2 Corinthians 6:14 ESV / 45 helpful votes
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
1 Timothy 4:1 ESV / 40 helpful votes
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
Revelation 1:3 ESV / 39 helpful votes
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.
Deuteronomy 30:19 ESV / 37 helpful votes
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,
Revelation 3:14-19 ESV / 33 helpful votes
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
John 14:6 ESV / 29 helpful votes
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Mark 13:35-36 ESV / 27 helpful votes
Therefore stay awake—for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning— lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.
Hebrews 12:7 ESV / 26 helpful votes
It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Romans 12:1 ESV / 25 helpful votes
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Matthew 28:19 ESV / 25 helpful votes
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Revelation 3:16 ESV / 24 helpful votes
So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
Philippians 4:8 ESV / 22 helpful votes
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Matthew 10:8 ESV / 22 helpful votes
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay.
Revelation 21:7 ESV / 18 helpful votes
The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
Romans 7:24 ESV / 18 helpful votes
Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Revelation 12:11 ESV / 17 helpful votes
And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.
Colossians 2:12 ESV / 16 helpful votes
Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Romans 6:4 ESV / 16 helpful votes
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Romans 1:1-32 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations,
Matthew 18:3 ESV / 15 helpful votes
And said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7:21 ESV / 15 helpful votes
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Psalm 118:1-18 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Oh give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; for his steadfast love endures forever! Let Israel say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Let the house of Aaron say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Let those who fear the Lord say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Out of my distress I called on the Lord; the Lord answered me and set me free.
Matthew 18:10 ESV / 14 helpful votes
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.
Jeremiah 10:5 ESV / 14 helpful votes
Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field, and they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good.”
Colossians 1:16 ESV / 13 helpful votes
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Luke 18:8 ESV / 13 helpful votes
I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”
Zechariah 14:12 ESV / 13 helpful votes
And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples that wage war against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
Revelation 2:9 ESV / 12 helpful votes
“‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
James 4:17 ESV / 12 helpful votes
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
James 1:6 ESV / 12 helpful votes
But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.
Luke 17:30 ESV / 12 helpful votes
So will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
Mark 11:1-33 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Now when they drew near to Jerusalem, to Bethphage and Bethany, at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two of his disciples and said to them, “Go into the village in front of you, and immediately as you enter it you will find a colt tied, on which no one has ever sat. Untie it and bring it. If anyone says to you, ‘Why are you doing this?’ say, ‘The Lord has need of it and will send it back here immediately.’” And they went away and found a colt tied at a door outside in the street, and they untied it. And some of those standing there said to them, “What are you doing, untying the colt?”
Matthew 28:20 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
1 John 2:27 ESV / 11 helpful votes
But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.
Revelation 3:15 ESV / 10 helpful votes
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!
John 3:1-36 ESV / 10 helpful votes
Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
2 Timothy 1:7 ESV / 9 helpful votes
For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.
Luke 17:1-2 ESV / 9 helpful votes
And he said to his disciples, “Temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin.
Helpful Not Helpful
John 15:5-6 ESV / 8 helpful votes
I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
1 Corinthians 5:11 ESV / 7 helpful votes
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
source: http://www.openbible.info/topics/lukewarm_christians
Another thing that seems to be left out these days is the teaching of what repentance is. Is asking for forgiveness without repenting really meaningful? To truly mean it is to repent from that sin, to repent is to turn away from it, not because of the consequences but because of a genuine disdain for sin. To repent and then turn back to the same sin again is like a dog eating its own vomit just to become sick all over again... This was the main topic, lol...
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Valefor.Endoq
Server: Valefor
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By Valefor.Endoq 2014-01-31 11:18:17
Point was to share some things to help further that already existing relationship for those that have it. Not meant to start a debate.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-01-31 11:19:16
When I don't have a point to convey, I'll just accuse the opposing thought of misusing the English language just to simply retain a future talking point.
Brilliant Jassik! That way, you say nothing important and still give that perception of intelligence. Why didn't I think of that?
Caitsith.Zahrah
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-01-31 11:24:06
I believe people become luke-warm because of the "noise" in our society. ADD/Phones/Facebook/Radio etc. Everything is instant gratification. Kids (adults now too) don't even hold conversations at a restaurant. How can they have the patience to sit through an hour of mass? How can you have a conversation, let alone relationship, with Christ?
Even if you don't believe in a judeo-christian God, spirituality is suffering a crisis. Even non religious meditation would be difficult. How can you achieve inner quiet and begin introspection when you can barely be quiet. You know how they say "turning off your phone before bed can help you with sleeplessness"? All that ***goes on subconsciously in the BG. We as a society are becoming awful people. I wouldn't want a relationship with a girl that just buried her nose in her phone everytime i wanted to have a conversation. God is infinitely more patient than I am, but how is he going to nurture a 1-way relationship?
I'm sincerely hopeful for our new pope. I'm hoping his "Franciscan" (back to nature) ways foster an attitude of bettering relationships with each other. I also hope the "can't be even out of my home without full attention on electronics" *** ends (religion or not). When was the last time you talked to a freshly 20-something? They squirm. They can't look you in the eye.
Anyhow, that's my 2 cents on topic since i got mired down in this thread anyhow :x
/cringe
Yeah...Sometimes I wonder if, with a portion of people, their secularism is more a superficially embraced fad (NOT ALL PEOPLE) because they lack the diligence or ambition to at least try to understand religion in its entirety. I think everyone who continuously makes the effort to learn, and doesn't regard their faith, or lack their of, as the eternal *** measuring contest is worth their weight in gold.
Then again, there are legitimate atheists, who sincerely have their internal quibbles from time to time that leads them to their ultimate conclusion, and we can't dismiss their trials. Everyone's path is their own.
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By fonewear 2014-01-31 11:24:19
What an irrelevant argument.
You could say the same thing about anything not just politics and religion.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-31 11:24:52
When I don't have a point to convey, I'll just accuse the opposing thought of misusing the English language just to simply retain a future talking point.
Brilliant Jassik! That way, you say nothing important and still give that perception of intelligence. Why didn't I think of that?
It's a very important distinction, not an accusation or distraction. If there wasn't a future talking point, why can't it be rephrased if they "mean the same thing"? It's dishonest and cheapens the faith of the people who have it. If you want to have a relationship with god in any form, why would you need to paint non-believers in any light? Isn't it supposed to be about YOUR relationship with god?
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Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-01-31 11:29:33
Point was to share some things to help further that already existing relationship for those that have it. Not meant to start a debate.
From the OP, it seems you look down your nose at fair-weather Christians, those who may practice in the privacy of their own home, or those who pick from the buffet of all religions.
Not your place to judge. Your interpretation of God may be perceived as "lukewarm" by others.
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By fonewear 2014-01-31 11:30:11
Just think this could have been an argument about whether XI or XIV is better. I would consider that irrelevant.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2014-01-31 11:32:14
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Wrong. Not believing in something could even be never having heard of it. Someone who has never heard of Taoism doesn't "believe it's not true", they have no belief. Again, this has been explained to you over and over with dictionary definitions and visual aids.
Drop it, you're antagonizing and taunting people the same why you cry to mods about when people do it to you.
Actually no I won't drop it. You ask to drop it because you know you are defending a wrong point for no reason. I said already that not ever hearing of something is the only absence of belief because its ignorance of the subject. But once the concept is introduced you either believe it is true or you believe it is not true. This is not difficult man. Even the geniuses that you associate with that do not contemplate it have heard of God, and they either believe in God or believe there is no God.
Edit: Sheesh. Stop being stubborn.
Again misuse of language simply to retain a future talking point. When presented with a subject, you can choose not to acknowledge the choice or choose not to pass judgement. Just because you don't see any alternative doesn't make it so.
No Jassik. Your only alternative is to ignore you ever heard of a subject and try to erase it from your memory? That's crazy talk. But since you brought it up tell me this. Someone that declares themself an atheist, are they ignoring a concept of a God. No. They are acknowledging that people believe in a God and that they believe the God is not real. Stop being a fool.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-01-31 11:34:46
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Phoenix.Amandarius said: »Wrong. Not believing in something could even be never having heard of it. Someone who has never heard of Taoism doesn't "believe it's not true", they have no belief. Again, this has been explained to you over and over with dictionary definitions and visual aids.
Drop it, you're antagonizing and taunting people the same why you cry to mods about when people do it to you.
Actually no I won't drop it. You ask to drop it because you know you are defending a wrong point for no reason. I said already that not ever hearing of something is the only absence of belief because its ignorance of the subject. But once the concept is introduced you either believe it is true or you believe it is not true. This is not difficult man. Even the geniuses that you associate with that do not contemplate it have heard of God, and they either believe in God or believe there is no God.
Edit: Sheesh. Stop being stubborn.
Again misuse of language simply to retain a future talking point. When presented with a subject, you can choose not to acknowledge the choice or choose not to pass judgement. Just because you don't see any alternative doesn't make it so.
No Jassik. Your only alternative is to ignore you ever heard of a subject and try to erase it from your memory? That's crazy talk. But since you brought it up tell me this. Someone that declares themself an atheist, are they ignoring a concept of a God. No. They are acknowledging that people believe in a God and that they believe the God is not real. Stop being a fool.
This is your fallacy, bubba. Why could it not be worded "they don't believe god is real"? You're far too transparent.
By fonewear 2014-01-31 11:35:30
Religion is personal yes on one level. However discussing it with other people is not necessarily a bad thing. It is as if the discussion of God or Jesus brings out the worst in people.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-01-31 11:36:13
Yeah...Sometimes I wonder if, with a portion of people, their secularism is more a superficially embraced fad (NOT ALL PEOPLE) because they lack the diligence or ambition to at least try to understand religion in its entirety.
I would chalk it up more to a lack of necessity. modern america is so decadent & living is so easy, that's it become the norm to ignore death in it's entirety. when you stop thinking about death, you truly stop thinking about life. it's all swept under the rug. feeling old? facing morality? *** that, eat this *** pill & chase your poor ancient wife around the house all day, & if that doesn't work, here's 300 TV channels, some welbutrin, & and a costco to buy whatever food your mind can conjure up, for a low price. that'll keep ya busy. just don't think, for the love of god.
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Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-01-31 11:38:17
God or Jesus brings out the worst in people.
seems strange doesn't it?
poor guy must be rolling in his grave.
Please note that I posted this in the "Politics and Religion" topic, so please no hateful or anti religion remarks or flame-wars.
This post is for my fellow Christians, but I welcome all who are not, but do have a genuine interest in Jesus Christ and his teachings.
I spent many years being a lukewarm Christian after I first accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior, and in the last year or so I have devoted myself to him and my life has changed for the better in ways I never imagined possible. and today in my studies I came across some informative websites that touched on some issues that have bothered me for some time now.
Here is the info from those websites.
Are You A Lukewarm Christian? 1. Lukewarm people attend church fairly regularly. It is what is expected of them, what they believe “good Christians” do, so they go. Isaiah 29:13
2. Lukewarm people give money to charity and to the church as long as it doesn’t impinge on their standard of living. If they have a little extra and it is easy and safe to give, they do so, After all, God loves a cheerful giver, right? 1 Chronicles 21:24, Luke 21:1-4
3. Lukewarm people tend to choose what is popular over what is right when they are in conflict. They desire to fit in both at church and outside of church; they care more about what people think of their actions (like church attendance and giving) than what God thinks of their hearts and lives. Luke 6:26, Revelation 3:1, Matthew 23:5-7 4.
4: Lukewarm people don’t really want to be saved from their sin; they want only to be saved from the penalty of their sin. They don’t genuinely hate sin and aren’t truly sorry for it; they’re merely sorry because God is going to punish them. Lukewarm people don’t really believe that this new life Jesus offers is better than the old sinful one. John 10:10, Romans 6:1-2.
5. Lukewarm people are moved by stories of people who do radical things for Christ, yet they do not act. They assume such action is for “extreme” Christians, not average ones. Lukewarm people call “radical” what Jesus expected of all His followers. James 1:22, James 4:17, Matthew 21:28-31
6. Lukewarm people rarely share their faith with their neighbors, coworkers, or friends. They do not want to be rejected, nor do they want to make people uncomfortable by talking about private issues like religion. Matthew 10:32-33
7. Lukewarm people gauge their morality or “goodness” by comparing themselves to the secular world. They feel satisfied that while they aren’t as hard-core for Jesus as so-and-so, they are nowhere as horrible as the guy down the street. Luke 18:11-12
8. Lukewarm people say they love Jesus, and He is, indeed, a part of their lives, their money, and their thoughts, but he isn’t allowed to control their lives. Luke 9:57-62
9. Lukewarm people love God, but they do not love Him all their heart, soul, and strength. They would be quick to assure you they try to love God that much, but that sort of total devotion isn’t really possible for the average person; its only for pastors and missionaries and radicals. Matthew 22:37-38
10. Lukewarm people love others but do not seek to love others as much as they love themselves. Their love for others is typically focused on those who love them in return, like family, friends, and other people they know and connect with. There is a little love left over for those who cannot love them back, much less for those who intentionally slight them, who kids are better athletes than theirs, or with whom conversations are awkward or uncomfortable. Their love is highly conditional and very selective, and generally comes with strings attached. Matthew 5:43-47, Luke 14:12-14
11. Lukewarm people will serve God and others, but there are limits to how far they will go or how much time, money, and energy they are willing to give. Luke 18:21-25
12. Lukewarm people think about life on earth much more often than eternity in heaven. Daily life is mostly focused on today’s to-do list, this week’s schedule, and next month’s vacation. Rarely, if ever do they intently consider the life to come. Philippians 3:18-20
13. Lukewarm people are thankful for their luxuries and comforts, and rarely consider trying to give as much as possible to the poor. Matthew 25:34, 40, Isaiah 58:6-7
14. Lukewarm people do whatever is necessary to keep themselves from feeling too guilty. They want to do the bare minimum, to be “good enough” without requiring too much of them. 1 Chronicles 29:14, Matthew 13:44-46
15. Lukewarm people are continually concerned with playing it safe; they are slaves to the god of control. This focus on safe living keeps them sacrificing and risking for God. Matthew 10:28
16. Lukewarm people feel secure because they attend church, made a profession of faith at age twelve, were baptized, come from a Christian family, vote Republican, or live in America.
17. Luke warm people do not live by faith; their lives are structured so they never have to. They don’t have to trust God if something unexpected happens-they have their savings account. They don’t need God to help them—they have their retirement plan in place. They don’t genuinely seek out what life God would have them live—they have life figured and mapped out. They don’t depend on God on a daily basis-their refrigerators are full and, for the most part, they are in good health. The truth is, their lives wouldn’t look much different if they suddenly stopped believing in God. Luke 12:16-21
18. Lukewarm people probably drink and swear less than average, but besides that, they really aren’t very different from your typical unbeliever. They equate their partially sanitized lives with holiness, but they couldn’t be more wrong. Matthew 23:25-28, Luke 14:34-35
Source: http://chrismarlow.me/2008/06/are-you-a-lukewarm-christian/
Bible Verses about lukewarm Christians: Revelation 3:15-16 ESV / 495 helpful votes
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
Revelation 3:14-22 ESV / 298 helpful votes
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
1 John 2:15-16 ESV / 220 helpful votes
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world.
Matthew 12:30 ESV / 134 helpful votes
Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
Matthew 5:13 ESV / 130 helpful votes
“You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.
James 3:10-12 ESV / 94 helpful votes
From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water.
2 Timothy 4:3 ESV / 76 helpful votes
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 ESV / 69 helpful votes
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.”
Matthew 16:26 ESV / 67 helpful votes
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?
1 John 3:10 ESV / 63 helpful votes
By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
Matthew 12:33-37 ESV / 51 helpful votes
“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
1 Peter 3:15 ESV / 46 helpful votes
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
2 Timothy 3:4 ESV / 45 helpful votes
Treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2 Corinthians 6:14 ESV / 45 helpful votes
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
1 Timothy 4:1 ESV / 40 helpful votes
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
Revelation 1:3 ESV / 39 helpful votes
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.
Deuteronomy 30:19 ESV / 37 helpful votes
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,
Revelation 3:14-19 ESV / 33 helpful votes
“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.
John 14:6 ESV / 29 helpful votes
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Mark 13:35-36 ESV / 27 helpful votes
Therefore stay awake—for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning— lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.
Hebrews 12:7 ESV / 26 helpful votes
It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Romans 12:1 ESV / 25 helpful votes
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Matthew 28:19 ESV / 25 helpful votes
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Revelation 3:16 ESV / 24 helpful votes
So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
Philippians 4:8 ESV / 22 helpful votes
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Matthew 10:8 ESV / 22 helpful votes
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay.
Revelation 21:7 ESV / 18 helpful votes
The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
Romans 7:24 ESV / 18 helpful votes
Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Revelation 12:11 ESV / 17 helpful votes
And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.
Colossians 2:12 ESV / 16 helpful votes
Having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Romans 6:4 ESV / 16 helpful votes
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Romans 1:1-32 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations,
Matthew 18:3 ESV / 15 helpful votes
And said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7:21 ESV / 15 helpful votes
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Psalm 118:1-18 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Oh give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; for his steadfast love endures forever! Let Israel say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Let the house of Aaron say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Let those who fear the Lord say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Out of my distress I called on the Lord; the Lord answered me and set me free.
Matthew 18:10 ESV / 14 helpful votes
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.
Jeremiah 10:5 ESV / 14 helpful votes
Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field, and they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good.”
Colossians 1:16 ESV / 13 helpful votes
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Luke 18:8 ESV / 13 helpful votes
I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”
Zechariah 14:12 ESV / 13 helpful votes
And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples that wage war against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
Revelation 2:9 ESV / 12 helpful votes
“‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
James 4:17 ESV / 12 helpful votes
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
James 1:6 ESV / 12 helpful votes
But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.
Luke 17:30 ESV / 12 helpful votes
So will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
Mark 11:1-33 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Now when they drew near to Jerusalem, to Bethphage and Bethany, at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two of his disciples and said to them, “Go into the village in front of you, and immediately as you enter it you will find a colt tied, on which no one has ever sat. Untie it and bring it. If anyone says to you, ‘Why are you doing this?’ say, ‘The Lord has need of it and will send it back here immediately.’” And they went away and found a colt tied at a door outside in the street, and they untied it. And some of those standing there said to them, “What are you doing, untying the colt?”
Matthew 28:20 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
1 John 2:27 ESV / 11 helpful votes
But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.
Revelation 3:15 ESV / 10 helpful votes
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!
John 3:1-36 ESV / 10 helpful votes
Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
2 Timothy 1:7 ESV / 9 helpful votes
For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.
Luke 17:1-2 ESV / 9 helpful votes
And he said to his disciples, “Temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin.
Helpful Not Helpful
John 15:5-6 ESV / 8 helpful votes
I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
1 Corinthians 5:11 ESV / 7 helpful votes
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
source: http://www.openbible.info/topics/lukewarm_christians
Another thing that seems to be left out these days is the teaching of what repentance is. Is asking for forgiveness without repenting really meaningful? To truly mean it is to repent from that sin, to repent is to turn away from it, not because of the consequences but because of a genuine disdain for sin. To repent and then turn back to the same sin again is like a dog eating its own vomit just to become sick all over again...
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