Animator's Workshop: A Puppetmaster's Guide 2.0

Your assumption is based off Player caps at 50%.

Pets were never capped like players were. It was capped at 100%

In Abyssea days, SMN were the first to cap damage reduction. So SE put a cap on Avatars. They didn't realize until about 8 months after the SMN cap, that BST and Pup could do it too, just requiring much more gear or atma. At that point they put the universal pet damage reduction cap at 87.5%

It has never in any way been 50% for pets. that has always been only for players.

Testing was done somewhere in 2010~2011. its up to you to dig it up. Its been common knowledge for pet players since then. The smn cap of 87.5% was put in around January 2011. The rest of the Pets not until August IIRC.

Steam Jacket itself also adds another -30% MDT before Optic Fibers for repeated magic damage. We're actually rather lucky we got MDB attachments for our Automatons instead of MDT as far as pure turtling goes.

Ah ok cool. I thought VE Frame was 12.5%?

Slight addendum. The change they made for summoner was to change the innate pdt to be a separate factor. Which made it kind of useless for trying to cap and gave them an even harder time capping than bst

Pretty sure it's a separate factor but can't seem to find any of the testing on it or other similar like analyzer
He's adding in stout servant. Should note that frame bonuses aren't DT but mdt, bdt and pdt... most of the time there is no difference but occasionally there is. How often it does come up is hard to say though since hardly anyone tests mob moves anymore and it seems like no one tried to see if there were moves like that until a couple of years ago

The only real difference between Rao +1 and Heyoka is your Auto's HP total. However, with Heyoka, your Auto can hold hate better in longer fights.

I, personally, have tanked some high end NMs (Omen, Dynamis D, Reisenjima) with my Automaton (before Heyoka set became available) and I'd have a BST's pet strip hate right off my Automaton. BST pet gets killed, then my Auto is tanking again.

Where the Rao +1 set shines, though, is in fights where an NM's move does a set amount of damage. Kei, for example, has a move that does 2500 damage to anything in range. Normally, a puppet can eat 2500 no problem, but if the puppet is cursed, which Kei can do, a Pet: HP+ set becomes a must have.

Should note Heyoka is best to swap in before you know provoke/flash are going to go off.

More dmg being taken due to lack of dt and less hp means you will be losing hate faster from dmg in Heyoka

Is there a way to tell when Flash/Voke is ready besides eyeballing? i.e. does Timers Plugin have a way of reading automaton's actions and indicating when it's available?

Yes, Timers tracks voke/flash recast from Automatons.


The only "real" difference? Heyoka has zero DT-% on it. Capping PDT is not an issue due to double Armor Plates, but losing -16% MDT (4/5 Rao+1) in addition to HP can hurt a lot in some fights.

I think we could test this on the unity cactuar that does needles attacks one after another.

just equip you dt set on pup, but don't use any armor plate. just use steam jacket instead. see if it applies to the physical stuff (which bg wiki implies) and the numbers should tell if its additive or multiplicative.

if it were additive (which i highly doubt), you could almost replace you armor plate and mana jammers w/ this. but I don't really think that is the case.

I agree with Aerix. But just for completeness, another distinction that may be worth noting (although it doesn't affect the puppet) is that Heyoka set is our best master Meva gear. That can occasionally have some use when you're filling a tanking role and for whatever reason the master ends up in range of the mob (have to run in, limited room in a fight to stay out of range for some reason, people pulled a mob onto you, etc.) or there's some especially long range magical AoE.

I know I've mentioned this a bunch of times, but I'm actually still in favor of Taeon 4/5 for most of my general tanking, with DT-4% and Meva+22~25 per piece (and the less significant Regen+3 per piece from Leaf slot). Combined with Meva on my Ohrmazd, the that's comparable to an Idris 900+ skill GEO-Attunement (Meva+125). Since magic damage (and status effects) tend to be a far bigger deal for PUP than physical damage, anything to reduce that is a plus to me.

Question is really whether you prefer Rao+1's HP over that Meva in whatever situation you're in. Rao+1 is obviously a fine choice too, but:
(a) Merely having more puppet HP is vastly overrated for enmity retention purposes (it helps, but barely - nowhere near the significance of using Enm+ gear for hate generating abilities), and
(b) Aside from specific moves requiring minimum HP to avoid OHKO, a larger HP pool is arguably of minimal value for most puppet tanking (where you're likely staying close to topped off from regen and occasional repairs anyway)

FWIW, NQ Rao is perfectly fine too. Being realistic, the extra DT-1%/HP+25 per piece makes no practical difference on almost anything you might be tanking on PUP.

I prefer HP because aside from Doom, Terror, Petrify, Curse, heavy Poison and Amnesia, there aren't any status effects that really matter to a tankmaton. Most party setups I run with don't even bother with Vex or Addle anymore, and I very much doubt Taeon alone would suffice to consistently (which is important) allow the maton to resist any of the above. And Maintenance/Repair usually take care of the removable ones fairly quickly.

Regarding magic damage, with Mana Jammers, Steam Jacket and DT gear, the majority of magic damage is pretty negligible. Only Chainspell/Meteor actually hit for dangerous numbers, but it's nothing a Repair or Dawn Mulsum can't fix.

As far as HP+ goes, however, it not only reduces enmity loss and increases Regen, but it also adds survivability to the maton for various fights/mechanics. Curse, single target Dancing Fullers while cursed (if you mess up Retrieve), Pain Sync, ST20 effects, X Needles, supertanking and so forth. It has saved my maton's life often enough that I could never give up my Rao+1 and Gnafron's.

I feel like you are talking past each other. Capuchin already said aside from moves needing more hp to avoid OHKO....

If we are just going for pure qualitative testing we can just throw any real non rng dependent dmg source at in pvp with capped dt of whatever is being used against it. If it's separate there will be a change if not then it's just adding to an already capped dt. Speaking of...

Results were rather... let's call it interesting and will need further examination to say the least. But dmg did decrease with steam jacket on with capped mdt (45 in gear 25 from stormwaker frame, 24 from, and 9 from stout servant so 103. Was actually still capped with taking anwig off).

Now for the interesting parts. Unlike what is show in the wiki damage reduction did not go away with deactivate reactivate and did not go away with physical dmg. Only thing I got to change it was a different element of magic dmg. I theorize it can "store" 1 subtype of each of the 3 main dmg types. So like fire magic, + blunt physical, wind breath etc.

The other interesting thing that I probably should've figured out before but hadn't done the math on... but 3 water maneuver steam jacket is 80% reduction. No light maneuver optic fiber 1+2 =1.25 increase in attachment.... .8*1.25=1 yes 3 water maneuvers brought the dmg to 0

edit: ok took off all my dt gear and no shell using VE body and used a higher tier nuke (Thunder VI) and dmg without it active was 2742 and with it active and 3 water maneuvers and both optic fibers 53. Then overdrive not active 2172 and overdrive active with 1 light and 1 water maneuvers and 2 OFs 42. Those both end up being about the same amount so might be some kind of cap at ~98%? Then DT and rounding takes it from there?

Yeah, I suppose so. My bad. Shouldn't have posted while tired.

So funny thing in pvp... the whm automatom will silence the opponent it's sent after and then if in same pt will try to silena them before realizing wait a second... lol.

So tried full mdt build thunder 6 again. Not active 700 active with 3 maneuvers and OF1/2 8 dmg. Gunna have to take this out of pvp to get some good quantitative conclusions but looks good.

Threw a pet on it for awhile and it doesn't seem to do anything with the melee or physical ready moves though magical ones were still effected... I'm beginning to think same type really means same element

edit: yup. Tested with stone for reset, thunder and thunder breath. Thunder and thunder breath both set themselves and each other to lower dmg while stone reset both of them

edit 2: Some quick testing of analyzer shows it's super wonky and not sure what is going on and I'm too tired to figure it out tonight

So contrary to the BGwiki info, Steam Jacket does not affect physical damage types at all, but only successive damage of the same element?

I always suspected it worked like this, but I deferred to BGwiki thinking someone tested it properly.

That's what it looks like. They link jp wiki... but even poorly auto translate of that seems to say similar thing. I'm almost thinking the test was copied from other wiki and the numbers from jp wiki.

And well look at other wiki it says Blunt, Slashing, Piercing, and Magic Damage but not 1000 needles because it's none of those types lol. And that links an old Allakhazam post that was further testing some ah post. So it seems the mishmash of people putting it together didn't really understand what was going on and ***got lost in translation.

You'll actually find a lot of attachments have how we say poor sourcing/documentation. Like the old armor plate IV one just referenced the change from def to pdt... except the attachment came out after that change so where did the numbers come from...? idk but they were wrong until it got tested and fixed.

The Windower add-in "Autocontrol" sends Flash and Voke timers to Timers for you.

By the way, regarding soloing Vir'ava on PUP with Overdrive: I don't know why I didn't think of this the first time around, but with a basic MACC set (Tali'ah is great) and /SCH, you can simply use Manifestation+Sleep on the adds as soon as they spawn for nearly perfect safety. And then simply wait 20-40s and engage with AATT and a healer trust to overwrite your sleep with AATT's ES Sleepga II (if needed).

You do lose Dia II though, which kinda sucks (if you have no mules). Could make KingofHearts Dia III at the start though and then dismiss him before adds pop.

The fight still works rather smoothly in any case, as long as you stay clear of Meteor and the adds' poison aura.

Edit: Only safely works for Pakecet, see below.

The same also works for Pakecet, by the way. But I recommend bringing Dawn Mulsums and using the Healing Salve temp items because his Dread Spikes hurt the maton a lot.

Duke Vepar is easier and doesn't need any sleeps. Just Ventriloquy the Gnat add at the start of the fight and let your maton tank it.

Looking to try this out and finally nab me a Abnoba. As far as sleeping the adds is concerned, do we care if they are absorbed or not? Should I loose dps by Retrieving to pull Vir'ava away before reapplying sleep?

Stand far away from Vir'ava so the adds get slept away from her, then she won't be able to absorb them at any point. If you overwrite your Sleep with AATT's Sleepga II, the adds shouldn't wake up before Vir'ava dies.

Also make sure you use Target Marker on your Automaton or you'll have serious accuracy issues.

Ok, I just tested it again and apparently AATT refuses to overwrite Sleep 1 with Sleepga 2. So you have to choose between /SCH and Manifestation+Sleep or making AATT Sleepga II for you. I've only cleared Vir'ava using a DT set with AATT sleeping for you, so far. Pakecet I did as PUP/SCH.

In any case, given that partial resists are likely as PUP/SCH (and Sleep 1 recast is tripled due to Manifestation), it would be a lot safer to bring a friend to Sleepga II for you.

Edit: Here, I made a video to demonstrate the fight.



Made several mistakes as it was already extremely late and I was pretty tired:

1) I was on PUP/SCH due to some other fights, but decided not to switch subjobs before Vir'ava due to laziness/impatience
2) Forgot to unsummon KingofHearts before Sleepga II and he ended up casting Dia III
3) Forgot to switch out of my DT set for much too long after adds were put to sleep, wasting a lot of automaton damage
4) I ran in without checking for Meteor first. Don't do this.

As AATT's Sleepga II lasts the entire fight, I'd recommend to just go PUP/RDM and Dia II Vir'ava yourself instead of using KoH, it's much easier.

Here are Sarama and Sovereign Behemoth for good measure. I definitely recommend bringing a COR because rolls make these fights way, way easier, giving you more leeway if your gear isn't optimal.

Sarama:


Sovereign Behemoth:

Would love to see your gear sets for doing these fights.

I don't need
My Favorite way of dealing w/ Dread Spikes is Regulator.

ItemSet 353094

Ohrmazd augmented with Accuracy+25/Pet: DT-4%/Pet: TP Bonus+200; Dispersal with Pet: TP Bonus+500; Naga Kyahan with Path D.

If you only have NQ Klouskap Sash/Thurandaut Ring, I recommend replacing the DT-4% on Ohrmazd with Pet: Haste+3% to keep it capped.

Sometimes it's also a good idea to swap Naga Kyahan for Taeon Boots with Acc+25/DA+5%/DT-4%.

Let me know if you want to see any other sets.


Pakecet's Dread Spikes are a passive mode he switches to after Aetheric Pull. You can't dispel them, as far as I know, so Regulator probably wouldn't be able to steal them either. The only way is to white proc.

been awhile since I killed Pakecet. Honestly can't remember If I stole spikes from him or not. I've stolen it from alot of NM's.

but I don't think its safe to assume either way.

Either way, it's easier to heal the maton than to switch into Dark Maneuver and then spend the next 30s replacing maneuvers until you're back to Light/Thunder/Fire. You'll lose a lot of damage and you're racing against time since the adds won't stay asleep forever.

I swear your auto is weaponskilling a lot more frequently than mine a lot of the time (just counting the initial obviously when it's trying to skillchain is about the same). Even differences in tp again aside sometimes mine just gets stuck waiting 10 seconds after getting 1k tp before wsing if not trying to skillchain while most yours I saw were less than 10 total between the finishing Armor piercing and starting back up with daze