Animator's Workshop: A Puppetmaster's Guide 2.0

Do you mean with inhibitors? I seem to get 1k tp in 4 hits at +71 in gear, unless that's from DA and I'm not seeing the animation of the automaton swinging.

I love how I couldn't get that answer to my question in almost 3 weeks, yet he got it in under 12 hours. Much obliged.

The original post I saw was without inhibitors. The value of stp on inhibitors changes based on your light/fire maneuvers, anyway. The amount of stp in gear you would need will change based on that. Valoredge needs 138/139stp for a four hit. The rest is for the individual to work out.

It's possible those who could best answer it probably haven't been on to see it around the time it was posted, thus leading it to be missed. Either way, it's answered now that it's seen. Let's not take things personally, cool?

Ok here's some video to go with my previous post about nuking. This is how I recommend it be done which enables you to keep Mana Channelers on. One nuke per fight. I'm extra happy SE has taken the time to look into automaton magic issues.

That was the info I was more or less looking for.

Teuphist has been so kind to share with me his attachment set and his nuking set.

He has approx ~167 Magic Accuracy in gear, and capped JPs.
I tried several different setups:

First setup: ~265 pet: macc in gear
Second setup: ~190 pet: macc in gear
Third setup: ~114 pet: macc in gear (not counting the pe: INT > pet: mab conversion rate)
Attachments used were the following.Setup was similar to that of Teuphist. He used different attachments in place of Heatsink and ARK-3, but nothing directly affecting damage.


First setup has the highest macc but of course lowest mab.
Second has a bit less macc but more mab.
Third has the highest mab, highest INT but least macc.


I then proceeded to CP for a bit less than 2 hours, in a group and a bit alone too.
My nukes were between 30k-80k. My top has been 82k and that was with 3 Ice Maneuvers and it's the only time where I hit over 80k.
I was the only one magic bursting so we can rule out the reduced damage from consecutive nukes.

Nukes were that inconsistant even with my setup of 265 macc, to which I should add the 14 macc I was getting from food as well.
I think this might mean that macc is not high enough, yet, because such variability would hint that there's still a frequent resistance rate. At least that's how it works for players, but the same should apply to automatons.
Moving to setup 2 and setup 3 made the resistance rate even higher, I was seeing <20k nukes more often.


I still don't get how can people claim to get >90k nukes on Apex mobs *consistently*.
I mean getting it once or twice every 20 nukes doesn't really count, does it?
Likewise if you have a geo mule using Languor or a RDM mule using Frazzle 3, that doesn't count either >.>


One thing I couldn't manage to try was to remove the 2 amplifiers and put just Loudspeakers in there to see how much amplifiers really affected the overall damage. Wish I had the time to test it.



Btw if you're curious I tried different variations of maneuvers:

What pieces are there that add VIT? And other stats too I guess. I know about the Empy pieces, but is there any easy way to find others?

Or maybe it's better to ask for a link to your mentioned post. I poked around, but didn't find it.

The huge asterisk here is that your fight was over a minute long. If you're soling with trusts for CP, sure, you can do this. If you're in a real party, kills are (hopefully!) coming at a much faster pace, making reliable pet nuking far less viable because the puppet can't really keep up.

Personally, when I was doing CP on PUP, I had better luck either 2~3 man parties with friends with me+puppet skillchaining and someone else tossing a nuke. Or, pet tanking and "self" SCing with me+puppet for others to nuke.


Most notably is augmented Taeon (dusk slot) or Herculean gear.

I'd like to ultimately thank the slow tp rate of trusts. If they were quicker as players are, I would suggest removing mana channelers and semi-control automaton nukes. Letting it nuke freely, it will start casting Blizzard to light sc. Due to this, retrieve and deploy are necessary. With constant light sc, you can limit the puppet's spells to Dread Spikes, Absorb-INT, Thunder V, Fire V and Aspir II using this method and keep up with your regular CP party more effectively.

Removing Mana Channelers will drop your nuking power significantly, though mine nukes anywhere between 60-93k. I will post the parse results of each individual nuke once I get a significant amount to be worthwhile.

I haven't seen the method that either Teuphist or Sechs is using regarding how to nuke, but if you are using Ice Maker there is literally no reason to not deactivate after your puppet drops two nukes. Also, your pet will keep casting even if you Retrieve it. Also Also, I believe Amplifiers kinda just ignore Recast when they trigger, I've seen Automatons double cast even when I had Mana Channelers on.

There isn't any reason you shouldn't be getting support. Malaise and Puppet's Roll are huge, hopefully you have one or the other, or ideally both.


Only Herculean armor can get Pet: Stat+. Oddly, the Skirmish weapon CAN get those stats, but the armor cannot.

Duh, thanks for catching my mistake. I was thinking of the master attributes from dusk- stones. But yeah, Ohrmazd does have STR/VIT/DEX (all 3 from one augment) from Duskorb stones. I actually have that paired with DT-/Meva on my tanking Ohrmazd.

Gotta give up the weapon you'd otherwise be using though, likely Ohtas for this kind of application, so losing Pet: Acc+70/Haste+10%.


Perhaps Teuphist meant Retreive right after the initial nuke (or while the puppet is casting), so the puppet doesn't go on and cast the next nuke. Because you're right that Retrieve doesn't cancel an in progress spell.

I just feel like nuking with a puppet is so fiddly and obnoxious to set up for something like CP farming though. Nonstop setting up manevuers, frequent deactivating, timing deploy to burst right. It's a hell of a lot of work for something you will be grinding on for hours and hours, as well as being limited in effectiveness in a party that has decent kill speed/SC frequency. Way easier to me to try to use CP PUP more in a melee and/or tanking role. I'm not saying it's impossible to do, just that the reward doesn't match the effort to me, for CP purposes.

What kind of numbers are you seeing on your pet WS Tru not under OD? Did our usual run through of Zitah for our next set of Aeonics and it is basically come whatever you want, and I went PUP. We had a mixed bag of jobs, two smns, melees, rngs etc etc. My Automaton was parsing pretty low in really good gear(without swapping for ws)


Also, Made the Moonbow Belt last night, but I have Klouskap Sash +1. So, trying to figure out if I should swap that out(while using Godhands)

I have not been deactivating until this evening. I recommend it as well. I've a link on the previous page to the method as well.

Here are the nuke results of the magic bursts from the short parse I took this evening.


Cut from KParser

So you've been saying since your early tests when they added Amplifiers.
I dunno, maybe you're right.
Thing is I deploy after using my opening WS, not after the closing WS (i.e. after the SC has been registered).
If you do that, 2x Mana Channelers will make the casting so slow that the MB won't it in time.
Because it takes a bit longer for the SC to register and be detected so the PUP will MB the right element.
It's the same reason why if you deploy right after SC, Puppet will still cast his higher tier spell (Thunder V) instead of the right element. This always *** up the Darkness SCs in the pts I was in.

Which is exactely why I was making Light SC, that way the pet would've attempted to cast Thunder V regardless, and its spell would've Magicbursted the same because of me making Light.
In such a situation Amplifiers do not "work", so they do not reset the cast timer.
I wonder if in such situations they still grant the Magic Burst bonus? Because if they don't, then it might explain why I've been getting lower numbers? I dunno, I still think it's just a macc problem and amplifiers got nothing to do with it, but maybe it's worth investigating?


Concerning the activating/not activating yes you're right, it makes it easier to manage Ice Maker's insane burden load over time.
At the same time though, it takes 20+ seconds to set up 3x maneuvers.
When you're alone you have to engage, TP, WS at the right time making sure your closing partner also has TP otherwise it will be a waste, then you have to deploy and make sure maneuvers are up.
Using Ice Ice Light maneuvers like I suggested, while lowering the total damage, also reduces the amount of work (Light will always be up) and also reduces the chance of your pet using Drain instead of nuke because its HP got lowered by AoE from Crabs (Light > ARK4 > regen).
If you start using exclusively 3 Ice maneuvers then add Deactivate, then Activate, then also another thing to check (you need to make sure your pet's HP is close to cap when you deactivate otherwise you won't be able to activate again)

I mean... it gets so messy it starts feeling like the level of attention needed is close to a Master Battle instead of a relaxing Apex CP pt.
I mean at that point I think it's wiser and more efficient to just use the method Capuchin suggested and use Valoredge or Sharpshot frames to make "self SC" with your pet using Speedloaders or whatnot.
So much more relaxing, so much more efficient in the long run.


I think there's plenty. Like being on your own and having no COR or GEO? :-P
And even if you're in a pt and there's a COR, (which is already quite an unrealistic situation lol xD) no chance the COR is gonna use Puppet Roll unless it's a PUP-only pt lol

Did you guys happen to miss this official post from ages ago?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/48303-Amplifier-Clarification?p=559563&viewfull=1#post559563

Of course Tactical Processor is also an Ice Attachment, oh love XD


If what Tetsujin says is correct, it might mean that when Amplifiers do not proc (i.e. the fast cast doesn't activate) you also won't get the Magic Burst Damage bonus either.

Could explain the variation in damage that many of us noticed during magic bursts.
Maybe it was a matter of not activating Amplifier, and not a matter of not enough macc leading to resists?

No, I've cited that numerous times to support my claims. However, I am speaking about the universal magic recast and not specifically the elemental magic recast. In order for the Automaton to double burst, it has to be resetting it's universal timer. The thing is, sometimes it doesn't do that? We have a pretty good idea about how Amplifiers work, but there are odd details to work out.


If you are solo, BLM puppet isn't worth it. If you have a well built TP set you can chain light yourself with just V.smite > V.smite, but even then I don't think it's worthwhile to do. I dunno, I suppose when I start working on the nuking part of my guide I will delve deeper into it, but up to this point it doesn't seem as effective as just using Sharpshot and making skillchains.

If you are in a party, you should be deactivate/activating. You can even link all of your maneuvers into your activate macro, so you don't even really need to worry about all that. Unless you are also part of the skillchain and you are using gearswap I guess. IMHO, if you are filling the role of a BLM, you should be allowed to just play like a BLM.


Why wouldn't they? Do Corsairs you play with not manage more than two rolls? If a PUP roll allows your party to consistently chain mobs because your puppet is always able to kill the target, your COR is doing a disservice to your party by not doing it.

Yes, ultimately going with a DD puppet is much more ideal. VE closing w/ bone crusher is much more sufficient than rng on crabs, while rng may be better for bats. Hell, maybe bone crusher would work better on both. Yes, rng can tp faster, but the ws/sc dmg pales in comparison between the two.

If you're in a crab party with two DD already, this is when I personally would say it's ok to use BLM puppet to avoid adding an extra step to the sc. This allows you as master to either join in on the melee or sit back and just nuke. I wouldn't say it's complicated, just be engaged in what's going on.

I want to add (it just dawned on me) that RNG and BLM puppet would probably make a great combination due sc. RNG seems to switch back and forth between fusion/grav. Wouldn't that be a compliment to the puppet's penchant for switching between fire/thunder and blizzard?

I attempted to report it as a bug, but maybe there's just something about ranged animators I'm not understanding. If I have whm, rdm or blm puppet out with Animator P II on, isn't the puppet supposed to run to a ranged distance? For some reason, my puppet will do that continually, but then it will start staying within melee range and never move at all.

Does your puppet have hate? If your Automaton has hate it won't attempt to run away.

So for some reason whenever I equip +Automaton Skill (Naga Feet + Niburu Santi) equipment on, I actually get skill ups towards whatever my new cap is.

It didn't take to long to cap all of my skills towards my new cap. Is this just a bug? I'm just trying to find place holders for my pet ws set until my herc gear gets better augments.

Extra automaton skill has been borked since the beginning of time.

Thank you, Tru. I wasn't aware of this and that may just be what it is.

So I have a quick question, was doing some more ambuscade. Puppet actually managed to get some self skillchains in. Problem with that is he was closing with cannibal blade for significantly less damage and poor skillchains.

using fire light thunder, that shouldn't happen (cannibal is dark). Is cannibal the only tp move that can skillchain from bonecrusher/string clipper is that why that was the one chosen?

Also, I know the answer is somewhere, but can you restate? What's the condition for the "strong enemies" attachments? IE when is an attuner > spring4 and vice versa. and/or is a spring4 always better than attuner, stat wise.

Maneuvers influence their free ws usage. When using the attachments that force them to skillchain it does just that uses the ws that will close generally from what I noticed trying to close with the highest lvl skillchain it can and I think preferring the priority property on the ws with more than one skillchain property and tends to prefer the higher lvl ws.

Cannibal blade is compression/reverberation. Bone crusher is just fragmentation and you can't go from a higher lvl to lower so BC --> CB can't ever skillchain and the auto shouldn't be doing that. String clipper is Scission though I assume you mean string shredder but wont matter if just melee auto since it's scission/distortion so it can skillchain with either CB or Chimera ripper.

In my experience speedloaders tend to try for a longer skillchain so iirc it should do something like SS -> CB = Reverberation -> CR = induration -> CB = compression -> CR = detonation and I think last one is SS for scission not sure. Not 100% on that order been doing more sharpshot lately which if anyone is interested... if you trying to make it as many steps you want use thunder to force daze -> Arcu = Liquefaction -> AS = fusion --> AP = Gravitation.

How do you have a working kparser?

Greeting to all. I was wondering at what point does pet skill+ gear (naga, nibiru, etc) get surpassed by pet stat gear for WS?

Is there a skill vs stat damage correlation? If so what is the general rule on this?

Normally for each 1 skill gained it adds (ATK+1 ACC+1 Rng.ACC+1 rng.ATK+1 ETC......) so by getting naga feet for example (+10) that will be adding to ur pet EXTRA ACC / ATK to it and when stacked with other skill+ armor for when pet does WS it will outdo getting (STR DEX AGI ETC....) Modifier.


So going with "Automaton: Skill+" is a good idea for pet WS ^^/

Could one of the more knowledgeable pups chime in on this? I don't believe this is correct but haven't played pup seriously in so long I honestly can't remember.