Shut 'em Down!

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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2013-11-04 11:21:06
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Just because they're not practicing doesn't mean that people don't define themselves as Christians...

You can make the argument that people don't practice as required and whatnot... hell you can even make the argument that they don't really understand their faith but it doesn't mean that that many Americans don't classify themselves as Christians still... or that they can't be...

In any case all Sparth is trying to point out is that the radicals are a minority in the number of people that conside themselves religious... All Nik is saying is that there are still a ***ton of people that affiliate themselves with religion...

And the correct term is creaster you SOB! get it right! lol... besides that you can't really judge a persons faith or commitment on how many times a year they go to church... faith is a deeply personal thing and isn't subject to judgment on how an individual goes about it...
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-11-04 11:28:13
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Not saying you're wrong or anything but what do you base that off of?

Review of pharmaceutical companies financial statements as recent as 2011 and research for a paper I did while I was in college.

My paper is on my computer at home, so I can't grab the research or works cited page at the moment. If I remember correctly, the pharmas contributed to ~85% of total R&D in the world, and almost all of it were from America.

I just wanted to see if Kara had additional information that I didn't have, or if Kara's assumption is being based by government spending alone.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-11-04 11:32:42
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
But there are 250 million christians in the us alone, which is a hell of a lot of anything
Uh... no, not really. I know that some people really enjoy using that kind of number because it lends their arguments weight, but it has virtually no basis in reality. At best, that might represent the number of people who blaspheme against the Christian deity when they stub a toe or get pulled over for speeding. The number of people actually engaged in their Christian religion, the ones contributing to their church and evangelizing as the Bible decrees, they're much lower. In the Catholic community, the usual term I've heard for part-time pseudo-believers is C&E's, in that they only show up in church for Christmas and Easter.

I know it's convenient for posturing arguments to say that over 80% of the US population are Christians, but it's about as meaningful as saying that a similar number are right-handed.

If we winnow out the non-believers who cling to the apostasy that was pounded into their heads while still soft, then we can start dealing with real numbers and "minority" is certainly the correct term to describe them. When we further remove all the liberals and conventionally sane Christians so as to single out the vocal fringe that is given inexplicable amounts of media and political clout, it really is a very small group.

On the other hand, that's true of pretty much every group. There's a small (single-digit percentage at most) core that exploits the credulity and ignorance of the remaining 90+% to do whatever they want. I've ceased trying to figure out why people opt to be in that latter group. It's apparently just an outgrowth of human nature to want to be led by the nose by someone who doesn't have your best interests at heart -- c.f. the Tea Party.
If you are going to define a group of people based on a limited definition, then yes, you are correct.

As Flavin said, if you are going to define those who self-define themselves (practicing or not, they still believe they are Christians), then Nik's number is actually more accurate.

Plus, don't forget that there are seperate sects of the Christian Church. What you may consider as a Christian may not be considered as a Christian to another's viewpoint. That is why there is no universal number as to who is a Christian or not.

Personally, I'm with Nik. If you want to call yourself a Christian, you are a Christian, for all benefits and liabilities associated with that.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-11-04 11:34:45
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single payer doesn't necessarily put pharma out of the r&d business, they would be compensated similarly to how they are now and still able to sell their products overseas as they are now. i don't see what idealized version of single payer you're using to make a point nobody cares about.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-11-04 11:48:05
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With a single-payer system, who do you think controls prices? The companies who are selling to the consumer or the government who pays for the services?

If you think that insurances are bad when it comes to services, what makes you think the government will be any better?

The government will be like what Walmart is to small businesses. They will drive out any chance of competition against the larger medical businesses because only the larger medical businesses (of all parts, either if it is hospitals, doctor groups, insurances, medical device producers, pharmas, and the like) will be able to survive with the price ceiling that the government will place on said businesses.

Single payer only works if you have another country to rely on for medical supplies and innovation. Take that away, and they all will fail.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-11-04 11:50:38
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Yay!
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-11-04 11:52:31
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Page 100~!

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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-11-04 11:57:03
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Just because they're not practicing doesn't mean that people don't define themselves as Christians...

You can make the argument that people don't practice as required and whatnot... hell you can even make the argument that they don't really understand their faith but it doesn't mean that that many Americans don't classify themselves as Christians still... or that they can't be...

In any case all Sparth is trying to point out is that the radicals are a minority in the number of people that conside themselves religious... All Nik is saying is that there are still a ***ton of people that affiliate themselves with religion...

And the correct term is creaster you SOB! get it right! lol... besides that you can't really judge a persons faith or commitment on how many times a year they go to church... faith is a deeply personal thing and isn't subject to judgment on how an individual goes about it...

This is where things become muddled.

What defines a Christian? The tenets of Jesus? Believe in God? Adherence to the Bible? Simply believing in any absolute entity that could have created the universe? Going to Church weekly? The warm, fuzzy feeling of family and friends?

To label yourself something, it needs to be defined and here is where things go awry because the word 'Christian' has become synonymous with 'religious' and since everything is based on faith no one can be declared wrong.

My cynical self would say that many identify as Christian because its expedient to use a term that your peers also identify with but that's conjecture.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-11-04 12:05:30
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
With a single-payer system, who do you think controls prices? The companies who are selling to the consumer or the government who pays for the services?

If you think that insurances are bad when it comes to services, what makes you think the government will be any better?

The government will be like what Walmart is to small businesses. They will drive out any chance of competition against the larger medical businesses because only the larger medical businesses (of all parts, either if it is hospitals, doctor groups, insurances, medical device producers, pharmas, and the like) will be able to survive with the price ceiling that the government will place on said businesses.

Single payer only works if you have another country to rely on for medical supplies and innovation. Take that away, and they all will fail.

right, because the government doesn't usually pay double what the free market does.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2013-11-04 12:11:47
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Simply put... if you identify yourself as christian you believe in Jesus Christ and his teachings...

How you practice that faith is your own... there are different sects of Christianity and some rather practice on their own time... Faith is faith though whether it be christianity or any other form that resides in this little world of ours... how you practice is irrelevant...

Cynical being the key word there lol... you seem to project a sort of strong malice for any type of organized religion or whatnot... to each their own...
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2013-11-04 12:14:56
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
If we winnow out the non-believers who cling to the apostasy that was pounded into their heads while still soft, then we can start dealing with real numbers

Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Oh, you! Seems you've misquoted me, as I said the vocal minority championing the death cult aspects of Christianity

O.K.
Let's pretend that the 250 million number in the usa or 2.2 billion worldwide is a farce. Hell, while we're dreaming let's say it's only 10% that actually believe. that's 25 million nationally and 200 million worldwide.

I'm eager to hear about your solution for those numbers as well.

But let's also consider this important fact.
Consider what percentage of people believe killing someone else is a mortal sin. Punishable by hell or reincarnation as a dung beetle...whatever.

Yet we are able to raise an army to kill anyone who doesn't agree with us and/or show proper respect to the stars and stripes.

Let's take a step back and look at 9/11, the gulf of tonkin, pearl harbor.. how much does it take to send us into a screaming frenzy over the brink?

I WATCHED smart, educated, liberal democrats scream for iraq to be nuked after 9/11 and they weren't even coincidentally involved.

You want to worry about and cast dispersion on a few bible thumpers?
For what? Bad noise and making you feel bad about your lifestyle choices? Who gives a ***?

We're talking about americans that will kill you for fiddy cents at the drop of a hat.

You want to "educate" 250 million americans to drop their bibles and then what? Join a coven? Fat lot of good that will do....

What are you going to do to also get them to stop praying to the almighty dollar?
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2013-11-04 12:47:43
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
O.K.
Let's pretend that the 250 million number in the usa or 2.2 billion worldwide is a farce. Hell, while we're dreaming let's say it's only 10% that actually believe. that's 25 million nationally and 200 million worldwide.

Of that 250m, how many are radicals? Certainly not a majority by any stretch of the imagination or your numbers and that was my point. The radicals are heard because they have the money, influence, fiery rhetoric and the complacency of their less radical counterparts. Most people simply do not have the inclination to care about religion beyond their personal affairs.

Those that do (Mormons, Jehova's Witnesses etc.) are the butt of jokes and are considered creepy, door-to-door used-car salesmen by their fellow Christians/humans for a reason.

Most Christians can't even agree on the fundamentals of their religious faith so the idea of throwing out that united 250m number accomplishes? Yeah, there are a whole lot of Christians in America. It doesn't reveal anything else.
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2013-11-04 13:11:08
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I'm not going to sugar coat it for you. Maybe it makes you feel better to think they are fewer in numbers. But Not Me. I have seen them all kneel in unison and worship the false idol of the crucifix.

There's a hell of a lot more of them than there are you and I.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-11-04 13:35:49
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
With a single-payer system, who do you think controls prices? The companies who are selling to the consumer or the government who pays for the services?

If you think that insurances are bad when it comes to services, what makes you think the government will be any better?

The government will be like what Walmart is to small businesses. They will drive out any chance of competition against the larger medical businesses because only the larger medical businesses (of all parts, either if it is hospitals, doctor groups, insurances, medical device producers, pharmas, and the like) will be able to survive with the price ceiling that the government will place on said businesses.

Single payer only works if you have another country to rely on for medical supplies and innovation. Take that away, and they all will fail.

right, because the government doesn't usually pay double what the free market does.
Until they control the market, then they can do whatever the hell they want.
 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2013-11-04 14:08:44
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Knowing that 250,000,000 people identify as christian is actually very telling...
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2013-11-04 14:36:47
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Well it's not new. the kids have been talking that ***around campus for a hundred years... same old communist manifesto gibberish.

But the scale, which they never consider, is monstrous.

Forget the godwin stuff... Try to imagine if you wanted to hand all 2.2 billion of them all a gumball.
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-11-04 14:49:00
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I'm not talking about government only, but all US entities, which includes government but is not limited to government.

How much of the total medical R&D are done by the US government and pharma-companies and other medical companies located in the US? I'm pretty sure you will see my point.

How much of that R&D are funded by capitalist practices? Practically all of the funding.

How much of that funding will go away if we switch to a single-payer system which limits a whole lot of income to the medical community? A significant chunk.

Now I hope you understand my point, instead of looking at a limited portion of the entire picture...

$400 billion is both private and government, US contribution to TOTAL world R&D. With over $1.3 trillion R&D world wide.

For medical, finding just medical is annoying but feel free to look at p. 14 for life sciences (medical, pharma, etc is included) and how they define it. US private compared to global private is in a bar graph on p. 15
http://www.rdmag.com/sites/rdmag.com/files/GFF2013Final2013_reduced.pdf

I'm tired at the moment and can't find all government (throughout the world) life science spending, but if you want to look here for some of the government numbers and comparision to some countries. Haven't read all of it but it only compares to a few countries.
http://www2.itif.org/2012-leadership-in-decline.pdf

Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Review of pharmaceutical companies financial statements as recent as 2011 and research for a paper I did while I was in college.

My paper is on my computer at home, so I can't grab the research or works cited page at the moment. If I remember correctly, the pharmas contributed to ~85% of total R&D in the world, and almost all of it were from America.

I just wanted to see if Kara had additional information that I didn't have, or if Kara's assumption is being based by government spending alone.
Yeah, no. Pharma is less than 25% of US R&D, not even getting into world wide.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-11-04 15:06:54
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At least 3.5 million Americans have been issued cancellations, but the exact number is unclear. Associated Press checks find that data is unavailable in a half the states.

Could be as high as 15 million people by the president's own words.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-11-04 15:18:19
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I'm not talking about government only, but all US entities, which includes government but is not limited to government.

How much of the total medical R&D are done by the US government and pharma-companies and other medical companies located in the US? I'm pretty sure you will see my point.

How much of that R&D are funded by capitalist practices? Practically all of the funding.

How much of that funding will go away if we switch to a single-payer system which limits a whole lot of income to the medical community? A significant chunk.

Now I hope you understand my point, instead of looking at a limited portion of the entire picture...

$400 billion is both private and government, US contribution to TOTAL world R&D. With over $1.3 trillion R&D world wide.

For medical, finding just medical is annoying but feel free to look at p. 14 for life sciences (medical, pharma, etc is included) and how they define it. US private compared to global private is in a bar graph on p. 15
http://www.rdmag.com/sites/rdmag.com/files/GFF2013Final2013_reduced.pdf

I'm tired at the moment and can't find all government (throughout the world) life science spending, but if you want to look here for some of the government numbers and comparision to some countries. Haven't read all of it but it only compares to a few countries.
http://www2.itif.org/2012-leadership-in-decline.pdf

Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Review of pharmaceutical companies financial statements as recent as 2011 and research for a paper I did while I was in college.

My paper is on my computer at home, so I can't grab the research or works cited page at the moment. If I remember correctly, the pharmas contributed to ~85% of total R&D in the world, and almost all of it were from America.

I just wanted to see if Kara had additional information that I didn't have, or if Kara's assumption is being based by government spending alone.
Yeah, no. Pharma is less than 25% of US R&D, not even getting into world wide.
Still proves my point that US supports the majority of R&D.

I still am not at home to check my own research. I may have something different than your info. Or I could be remembering something wrong, which is more likely.
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-11-04 15:19:57
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I'm not talking about government only, but all US entities, which includes government but is not limited to government.

How much of the total medical R&D are done by the US government and pharma-companies and other medical companies located in the US? I'm pretty sure you will see my point.

How much of that R&D are funded by capitalist practices? Practically all of the funding.

How much of that funding will go away if we switch to a single-payer system which limits a whole lot of income to the medical community? A significant chunk.

Now I hope you understand my point, instead of looking at a limited portion of the entire picture...

$400 billion is both private and government, US contribution to TOTAL world R&D. With over $1.3 trillion R&D world wide.

For medical, finding just medical is annoying but feel free to look at p. 14 for life sciences (medical, pharma, etc is included) and how they define it. US private compared to global private is in a bar graph on p. 15
http://www.rdmag.com/sites/rdmag.com/files/GFF2013Final2013_reduced.pdf

I'm tired at the moment and can't find all government (throughout the world) life science spending, but if you want to look here for some of the government numbers and comparision to some countries. Haven't read all of it but it only compares to a few countries.
http://www2.itif.org/2012-leadership-in-decline.pdf

Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Review of pharmaceutical companies financial statements as recent as 2011 and research for a paper I did while I was in college.

My paper is on my computer at home, so I can't grab the research or works cited page at the moment. If I remember correctly, the pharmas contributed to ~85% of total R&D in the world, and almost all of it were from America.

I just wanted to see if Kara had additional information that I didn't have, or if Kara's assumption is being based by government spending alone.
Yeah, no. Pharma is less than 25% of US R&D, not even getting into world wide.
Still proves my point that US supports the majority of R&D.

I still am not at home to check my own research. I may have something different than your info. Or I could be remembering something wrong, which is more likely.
Um how do you define majority?

The US has the single largest expenditure per country, but it is not the majority.

China is expected to surpass US in the next few years as single largest expenditure country.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2013-11-04 15:22:27
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/sigh

You like beating dead horses don't you? No one has said peoples policies aren't getting transitioned... No one denies that the president said you would be able to keep your plan... I've even personally said that I'm upset about it... yet you keep bringing it up just to show this, at best, tepid outrage that accomplishes nothing but to show that once again you've only read like 3 sentances of the article you posted to take the only thing you probably agree with out of it and then go F yeah president this or that! Right in the kisser!

/sigh
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-11-04 15:25:23
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I'm not talking about government only, but all US entities, which includes government but is not limited to government.

How much of the total medical R&D are done by the US government and pharma-companies and other medical companies located in the US? I'm pretty sure you will see my point.

How much of that R&D are funded by capitalist practices? Practically all of the funding.

How much of that funding will go away if we switch to a single-payer system which limits a whole lot of income to the medical community? A significant chunk.

Now I hope you understand my point, instead of looking at a limited portion of the entire picture...

$400 billion is both private and government, US contribution to TOTAL world R&D. With over $1.3 trillion R&D world wide.

For medical, finding just medical is annoying but feel free to look at p. 14 for life sciences (medical, pharma, etc is included) and how they define it. US private compared to global private is in a bar graph on p. 15
http://www.rdmag.com/sites/rdmag.com/files/GFF2013Final2013_reduced.pdf

I'm tired at the moment and can't find all government (throughout the world) life science spending, but if you want to look here for some of the government numbers and comparision to some countries. Haven't read all of it but it only compares to a few countries.
http://www2.itif.org/2012-leadership-in-decline.pdf

Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Review of pharmaceutical companies financial statements as recent as 2011 and research for a paper I did while I was in college.

My paper is on my computer at home, so I can't grab the research or works cited page at the moment. If I remember correctly, the pharmas contributed to ~85% of total R&D in the world, and almost all of it were from America.

I just wanted to see if Kara had additional information that I didn't have, or if Kara's assumption is being based by government spending alone.
Yeah, no. Pharma is less than 25% of US R&D, not even getting into world wide.
Still proves my point that US supports the majority of R&D.

I still am not at home to check my own research. I may have something different than your info. Or I could be remembering something wrong, which is more likely.
Um how do you define majority?

The US has the single largest expenditure per country, but it is not the majority.

China is expected to surpass US in the next few years as single largest expenditure country.
When you are more than double the expenditure % than the next highest country, and you are also higher than an entire region, then yes, I would consider that as a majority.

Also, when you have 110 other countries spending money on R&D and you hold 29.0% of total expenditures, I would also consider that a majority. Can't use 2013 numbers yet because that is subject to change (since we still have just over 55 days left in the year).
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2013-11-04 15:36:01
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
/sigh

You like beating dead horses don't you? No one has said peoples policies aren't getting transitioned... No one denies that the president said you would be able to keep your plan... I've even personally said that I'm upset about it... yet you keep bringing it up just to show this, at best, tepid outrage that accomplishes nothing but to show that once again you've only read like 3 sentences of the article you posted to take the only thing you probably agree with out of it and then go F yeah president this or that! Right in the kisser!

/sigh

Tepid by you and the other liberals in this site perhaps. The media's been fixated on it for the last week. Some have called it the biggest lie ever told by a president.

But hey it's NBD.....
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2013-11-04 15:36:04
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Again another demonstration of poor math skills and silly outrages.

With a population of 319 Million plus, 3.5Million cancellations equals 1.1% of the population being affected and 15 million cancellations equals to roughly 4.8% of the population being affected.

All in all it's meh and sounds outrageous to people who don't understand math. After all they got Ted Cruz on their side who thinks 1.9 Million signatures (0.6% of the population) to repeal Obamacare represents the will of all US citizens.
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-11-04 15:37:24
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
When you are more than double the expenditure % than the next highest country, and you are also higher than an entire region, then yes, I would consider that as a majority.

Also, when you have 110 other countries spending money on R&D and you hold 29.0% of total expenditures, I would also consider that a majority. Can't use 2013 numbers yet because that is subject to change (since we still have just over 55 days left in the year).

No.

That is not a majority that is the single largest expenditure.

example: a charity raises $3 million. One person gives $1 million and many more give a total of $2 million. You would not say that one gave the majority of money. The majority of donations came from many people but the single largest donation came from one.

edited ~
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-11-04 15:52:24
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Lakshmi.Zerowone said: »
Again another demonstration of poor math skills and silly outrages.

With a population of 319 Million plus, 3.5Million cancellations equals 1.1% of the population being affected and 15 million cancellations equals to roughly 4.8% of the population being affected.

All in all it's meh and sounds outrageous to people who don't understand math. After all they got Ted Cruz on their side who thinks 1.9 Million signatures (0.6% of the population) to repeal Obamacare represents the will of all US citizens.
So, 1 in 20 people isn't really all that big of a deal for you?

It would if you were in that 1 in 20 group...

Bahamut.Kara said: »
No.

That is not a majority that is the single largest expenditure.

example: a charity raises $3 million. One person gives $1 million and many more give a total of $2 million. You would not say that one gave the majority of money The majority of donations came from many people but the single largest came from one.

edited ~
So, you are saying that the US isn't basically supporting the world's R&D?

Let's put it from your example: One person that gives $1m and everyone else gives a total of $2m. Are you saying that the person who is a majority giver of the charity isn't also the one who is supporting the charity? Tell that to the one person and see if he will give another million next year. If the charity loses that one person's charity, their entire support drops by a third. If the charity loses one person in the many, it wouldn't hurt them much, if at all.

That is my point. Forcing the US into a single payer system will limit the total R&D budget that US gives. R&D budgets come from profits from private companies, and the taxes paid by those private companies to the US government. Take both of those away, and we will be right there with 1 European country in total R&D expenditures. That is telling the one person in your example that, since they have the $1m to give to the charity, they now must give that $1m to the government instead. Think that one person will be giving another million dollars to the charity next year?
 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2013-11-04 16:01:22
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
/sigh You like beating dead horses don't you? No one has said peoples policies aren't getting transitioned... No one denies that the president said you would be able to keep your plan... I've even personally said that I'm upset about it... yet you keep bringing it up just to show this, at best, tepid outrage that accomplishes nothing but to show that once again you've only read like 3 sentences of the article you posted to take the only thing you probably agree with out of it and then go F yeah president this or that! Right in the kisser! /sigh
Tepid by you and the other liberals in this site perhaps. The media's been fixated on it for the last week. Some have called it the biggest lie ever told by a president. But hey it's NBD.....
The biggest lie ever told by a president? Ha! Not to downplay it or anything but it isn't even the biggest lie of the last decade let alone the biggest lie ever told by a president... maybe by this president... the people probably saying that are the same ones that called Obama a musli sheik sent to destroy the Americans from within by Allah by giving them healthcare! good try though...
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2013-11-04 16:03:03
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I'm sure it does to the 1 in 20 group... but since when does the 1 in 20 group outweigh the 19 in 20 group?

As for your argument on the US supporting the worlds R&D in this field seems to be jumpig around a bit...
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2013-11-04 16:11:57
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
/sigh You like beating dead horses don't you? No one has said peoples policies aren't getting transitioned... No one denies that the president said you would be able to keep your plan... I've even personally said that I'm upset about it... yet you keep bringing it up just to show this, at best, tepid outrage that accomplishes nothing but to show that once again you've only read like 3 sentences of the article you posted to take the only thing you probably agree with out of it and then go F yeah president this or that! Right in the kisser! /sigh
Tepid by you and the other liberals in this site perhaps. The media's been fixated on it for the last week. Some have called it the biggest lie ever told by a president. But hey it's NBD.....
The biggest lie ever told by a president? Ha! Not to downplay it or anything but it isn't even the biggest lie of the last decade let alone the biggest lie ever told by a president... maybe by this president... the people probably saying that are the same ones that called Obama a musli sheik sent to destroy the Americans from within by Allah by giving them healthcare! good try though...
Naw, I think the biggest lie our president told the US people is "Hope and Change."
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By Bahamut.Kara 2013-11-04 16:12:41
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
No.

That is not a majority that is the single largest expenditure.

example: a charity raises $3 million. One person gives $1 million and many more give a total of $2 million. You would not say that one gave the majority of money The majority of donations came from many people but the single largest came from one.

edited ~
So, you are saying that the US isn't basically supporting the world's R&D?

Let's put it from your example: One person that gives $1m and everyone else gives a total of $2m. Are you saying that the person who is a majority giver of the charity isn't also the one who is supporting the charity? Tell that to the one person and see if he will give another million next year. If the charity loses that one person's charity, their entire support drops by a third. If the charity loses one person in the many, it wouldn't hurt them much, if at all.

That is my point. Forcing the US into a single payer system will limit the total R&D budget that US gives. R&D budgets come from profits from private companies, and the taxes paid by those private companies to the US government. Take both of those away, and we will be right there with 1 European country in total R&D expenditures. That is telling the one person in your example that, since they have the $1m to give to the charity, they now must give that $1m to the government instead. Think that one person will be giving another million dollars to the charity next year?

Seriously, no the US is not supporting R&D throughout the world. $418.6 billion < $1,469 trillion. That is a serious fricking difference in amount of money spent.

You are more than welcome to make the argument that having a single payer system will decrease R&D funding. I'm really not sure why you have created this correlation, but I'd be very interested in any research you can provide that backs up your point.

I can give examples of many single payer countries have higher R&D percents GDP compared to the US (Denmark, Sweden, Finland to name just a few) but at this point I'm thinking it's pointless in this conversation.

R&D generates tax breaks, companies work with universities that get government grants, and it helps generate future profits. If a company doesn't invest in R&D then they are seriously stupid. For pharma R&D is considered a sunk cost (last I checked, pretty sure it is for US but I know for EU costing purposes it is a sunk cost) and doesn't even come into figuring out costs/revenues when you actually start selling the drug(s).

Edit: I'm to bed. Night!
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